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I see Joey D is no longer with Diversi


Gary75

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Joey D was not "endorsed" or paid by Diversi. It was the other way around. He actually put a lot of money into the company. I do not believe they are in business any longer. The KeyB is what he is supporting now. I don't know if he has the same business deal with the KeyB guys, but the same Italian guy (Elvio) was involved with development of each clonewheel.

 

With most endorsements these days, artists will usually just get instruments at special pricing in exchange for providing a bio/profile for the company to use to help market the instrument. In some case, perhaps the mega pop stars, they may get some kind of "freebie" type gear and some kind of financial benefit.

 

I did chat briefly with Joey D at NAMM in the Motion Sound booth, where he was playing the KeyB dual manual and also showing off the new Motion Sound V-stack amp that he is using. I forget the name, but here is a photo as John Fisher was showing it to me.

 

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs293.ash1/22061_1335213108444_1474562130_30976555_7445112_n.jpg

 

It has a backlit JD signature on it.

 

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs293.ash1/22061_1335213028442_1474562130_30976554_4396356_n.jpg

 

The MS-JDF

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs233.snc3/22061_1335213188446_1474562130_30976557_7274099_n.jpg

 

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs293.ash1/22061_1335212988441_1474562130_30976553_2478298_n.jpg

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B3boy:

 

Sometimes a little tough love is needed. I should know. I've fought weight issues my entire life, sometimes with success but mostly without. I'm not as big as Joey D, but I have a doctor who has told me in no uncertain terms that, if I hope to see my mid 70s, I better lose some weight. Someone needs to tell Joey D the same thing.

 

Is it harsh? Yes. Might it prolong his life, however? Yes.

 

I could have perhaps chosen a more tactful way to make my point, but the fact remains: Joey is unhealthily large and needs to do something about it. Somehow I doubt I'm the first one who has pointed that out to him.

 

Noah

 

 

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It's easy to sit back and criticize but Joey is a monster player that is probably not earning as much as you might think; and I can guarantee he's not earning as much as he should for the amount of work and dedication he's put into his craft. I don't begrudge any jazz musician doing what they have to do to make a living.

 

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I can guarantee he's not earning as much as he should for the amount of work and dedication he's put into his craft. I don't begrudge any jazz musician doing what they have to do to make a living.

 

Very true. Joey is a fairly relentless tourer. I've run into him twice out here in the great prairie midwest, doing just what I was doing when I was young and energetic - driving hundreds of miles to podunk destinations in a camper, setting up with no roadies, playing to a few aficianados sprinkled into a room with cackling old hens who don't even listen respectfully.

 

Given the rate of improvement of clones over the last few years, I don't even think his switching allegiance is that suspicious. I know I have switched mine each time the bar was raised.

 

Hammond finally got a contender with the New B-3/XK-3 generation and Joey toured with it. He seemed genuinely happy with his New B-3 when I talked to him about it.

 

But KeyB is on another level with their leslie sim and is at least equal to Hammond with the ability to model the tonewheels. Why shouldn't Joey switch?

Moe

---

 

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I take your point, but is it really for us to say.

 

Wonder how heavy that MS JDF amp is?

 

What is the advantage of this over pointing two PA cabs at 90 degrees together? I'm just intrigued on the seoeration front. Is the amp geared towards the frequency range of an organ?

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If the Italians build their organs as well as their buildings, you have no need to worry!

 

I see you've never owned an Alfa Romeo

 

same story, Beautiful cars, my favorite interiors, You fall in love with the car until it brakes, its a mayor love/hate thing.

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Joey D was not "endorsed" or paid by Diversi. It was the other way around. He actually put a lot of money into the company. I do not believe they are in business any longer. The KeyB is what he is supporting now. I don't know if he has the same business deal with the KeyB guys, but the same Italian guy (Elvio) was involved with development of each clonewheel.

 

With most endorsements these days, artists will usually just get instruments at special pricing in exchange for providing a bio/profile for the company to use to help market the instrument. In some case, perhaps the mega pop stars, they may get some kind of "freebie" type gear and some kind of financial benefit.

 

As I said earlier, I hope I'm wrong about Joey. Seems like I am.

Steve

 

www.seagullphotodesign.com

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Joey D was not "endorsed" or paid by Diversi. It was the other way around. He actually put a lot of money into the company. I do not believe they are in business any longer. The KeyB is what he is supporting now. I don't know if he has the same business deal with the KeyB guys, but the same Italian guy (Elvio) was involved with development of each clonewheel.

 

Not quite accurate, according to Elvio, who has been posting on Clonewheel quite a bit lately. Elvio, according to the info he posted, was not directly involved in Diversi; they had licensed his technology, and were using some of his hardware, but the two instruments really were different, and he wasnt and isnt responsible for Diversi.

 

That Motion Sound stack looks interesting.

 

Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me.
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Joey D was not "endorsed" or paid by Diversi. It was the other way around. He actually put a lot of money into the company. I do not believe they are in business any longer.

 

I would be real surprised with that "out of business" writing. Diversi operators, I believe, also service the Philadelphia area and beyond for Hammonds that may have many 100s of African American/other churches in the city area that only use the Hammond organ. They are probably very successful in the church market also. They most likely have the preponderance of their custom-built instruments as the full consoles going to churches. Church business can be monumentally larger than MI.

 

Not quite accurate, according to Elvio, who has been posting on Clonewheel quite a bit lately. Elvio, according to the info he posted, was not directly involved in Diversi; they had licensed his technologyg.

 

Very little what I have read here I believe is accurate. Even what I write may not be accurate though it has been understood the sound engine is the same, reportedly, from the Beatrix software organ that was further developed from 2006. (all remarks open for correction, obviously)

 

That is neither Italian or American. Actually from the Beatrix webpage last updated in 2006 you can trace the developer to Stockholm University.

 

The website version for the Beatrix free-download organ last updated in 2006 is not to be taken lightly. There is even one article of an individual who configured the 2006 version and had to compare to the XK3c back and forth to try to get a feel of what is better. It does have a cheesy GUI but not a material part of the organ in Linux. The 2006 version might be, in fact, a *very* impressive organ if ran through the Ventilator if prudence dictates, the rotor simulation was developed after 2006 to perfection.

 

If you read the updates to the Beatrix software organ and the development notes there is a small email address of **.***.su.se (asterisked not to publish here) as part of the notes. Internet tracing of that to try to find who wrote this software and technology brings the name up of a computer science professor. Dr. (Emeritus or whatever) of Fredrik Kilander.

 

Other links on the Beatrix page point a mathematical model of the rotor simulation that obviously the professor used. Doppler based on the triangle.

 

https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/waveguide/Rotating_Horn_Simulation.html

 

If you read that you will see "sin" "cos" formulations (ratio: sin=side op/h ratio: cos=side adj/h) based on a **triangular** 'doppler' model of the rotor simulation

 

One might deduct from this that Dr. Fredrik Kilander a professor of computer sciences at Stockholm University and probably a Hammond sound lover **MAY** be the actual owner of the sound engine technology unless outright the rights were purchased. (repeat: open for correction)

 

It is from Sweden.

 

One report I read some months ago said it was worked on additionally for 2 years after the 2006 update and then made proprietary to the KEYB/Diversi. Why the updates stopped. Whether that is true I don't know. In fact there is little information on the sound engine and source and whose technology it is and what I am writing may not be totally accurate THOUGH the address corresponded to the development notes is in the first person.

 

But how about other features of this "technology" of the organs?

 

Keyb keyboard=Fatar

Diversi keyboard=Fatar

Hamichord keyboard=Fatar

 

keyb drawbars=taiwan alpha

Diversi drawbars=taiwan alpha

Hamichord=taiwan alpha

 

keyb config=partial 'B3' interface (presets?)

diversi config=partial 'B3' interface (presets?)

Hamichord config=complete 'B3' interface with programmable presets.

 

Cabinetry and build?

Keyb=I don't know because webpage has not been updated to any significance since 2007. Still referring to 2007 Musikmesse

Diversi=updated webpage showing a host of configurations and epoxy type finishes of various colors.

Hamichord=updated webpage showing latest cabinetry in modular form

 

About any of these companies producing a lot of demonstration models other than their stores and some stores on the outside:

 

Ain't gonna happen. Some proprietary custom builders have never made oodles of special ordered, custom instruments. Even as a kid there was a shop I visited that repaired and built accordions called Francetti (spelling?). He built accordions by hand. He may have had one or two. Others had to be prepaid. Some flew from all over the country to have him build one. Nothing has changed since then even for organs. To put 100s of these, say, in guitar centers could cost several hundred thousand dollars. These are little guys.

 

 

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Nice sleuthing. I can confirm Fredrik Kilander is the Beatrix guy. I have corresponded with him several times. He has some very interesting ideas and hopes to update Beatrix someday.

 

One of his most interesting ideas was emulating the key stack behavior. His idea was to extend midi to have a keyboard capable of sending key depth position rather than velocity between 2 fixed points.

 

Seems like you could send poly pressure on the way down and use that to turn the individual key contacts on.

Moe

---

 

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I know it's none of my business and my writing here about the KeyB could hurt someone's sensibility, but I think I know something that can clear some of your doubts.

 

Dr. Fredrik Kilander is the author of Beatrix, I spoke with him at Frankfurt in 2007 and we corresponded for a while. The current software that runs inside the new DSP is a new version developed by an italian guy who takes care of both the hardware and the software of the DSP platform. Elvio told me that the new hammond simulation doesn't have nothing to do with the old Beatrix-based one, so I'm not sure if they ever had access to the old sources.

 

About the construction, the KeyB is made of iron, aluminium and wood (mahogany?), while the Hamichord is made of iron and MDF.

 

One of the first time I spoke to Elvio (it was during the months I was completing my first version of VB3), I told him about the possibility to use the polyphonic aftertouch to control the key pressure and the 9-contact thing, he told me that he wasn't aware of this possibility because he didn't know the MIDI protocol well (it was back in July 2007) but maybe Fredrik had the same idea. After all, it's the only method available in the MIDI protocol, which remained unchanged for the last 28 years.

The problem is not the software side, but there's no hardware keybed around that can actually know how deep a key has been pressed from its rest point up to the bottom end.

So, until Fatar or some chinese keybaord factory doesn't build this kind of keybed (that is likely to be *never*), there will never be an Hammond clone with a real 9-contact feel.

 

Just my 3 cents :)

 

 

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Elvio told me that the new hammond simulation doesn't have nothing to do with the old Beatrix-based one, so I'm not sure if they ever had access to the old sources.

 

Interesting! So it could sound different and could sound better to be positive. If there was no sonic difference, ????, obviously and if I am reading correctly this is not just reprogramming into a DSP OS but new model.

 

I think if I owned a Diversi or Keyb (if the Diversi had a likewise change independantly) I would have to hear it (DSP) or be able to roll-back because the original in Linux is an absolute **killer** emulation and in my view, so far, the best all-modeled Hammond in the world. I have not obviously heard the VB32 yet. I expect it to be in that league/class. The videos sound like it.

 

 

 

W

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I have the Beatrix software loaded onto a laptop. The source code was provided for it on the website at one time; I don't know if it is still up there.

 

While the code is provided, it is not freeware. You can experiment with it but the original author retails all rights, so you could not turn it into a commercial product or anything.

 

I've played with a few things, and have compiled a version that turns off the reverb. The code is surprisingly small and compact.

 

In my opinion, the basic tone of the organ sim is great. The chorus vibrato also sounds very good.

 

Here are my complaints:

 

- the default balance of the tonewheels is not ideal, so that the response up and down the keybed is uneven. You of course have complete control of the levels by loading different values into a table, but I have not gone there.

 

- the percussion "pings" unpleasantly and sounds artificial on a couple of low notes. Hopefully this is related to the tonewheel balance issue. I find this strange as it only affects those few notes.

 

- the leslie sim is underdeveloped and not authentic enough.

 

It's been close to a year since I played with it, as I've been using VB3 pretty exclusively since. My complaints with it are pretty small, and I too am eagerly awaiting the new version which should be a tweaker's delight.

 

Moe

---

 

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I too am eagerly awaiting the new version which should be a tweaker's delight.

 

Absolutely. The Beatrix reportedly in the KeyB (before DSP) obviously and to clarify, is not the 2006. It would be interesting to know if the Dr. *personally* as a consultant upgraded the 2006 Beatrix OR he gave the rights to a programmer with the open source, thusly, being most likely an Italian programmer associated with the manufacturer. (not that nationality matters in any material sense)

 

This might be the misunderstanding (if any) of the characterization and source of the Keyb sound engine unlike VASEIII there are no published info on it. Even a promotional picture of the guy.

 

http://tinyurl.com/yhsfuu8

 

If it were further developed from the source code in Italy then it really is Italian as the proud providers of the goodies over there like to profess justifiably, but "Beatrix based" a term Guido used, imo. (this, not meaning the new DSP that has been reported here to not have any relationship to Beatrix and different)

 

Kudos to Keyb making the wood mahogany (plank). As Guido pointed out about the Hamichord being MDF: I find this amazing with an instrument in this caliber, second version, though perhaps not uncommon with imported instruments. Perhaps some of us in the US with wood all over the place are a little more sensitive to wood appointments. Even the Doepfer System has real mahogany side panels. Not to worry as I will be replacing the panels on mine with hardwood of my choice and not that difficult.

 

 

 

W

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So, until Fatar or some chinese keybaord factory doesn't build this kind of keybed (that is likely to be *never*), there will never be an Hammond clone with a real 9-contact feel.

 

Just my 3 cents :)

 

 

The New B3 from Hammond-Suzuki has a 9-contact analog keying system that feels remarkably similar to the original Hammonds.

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Phil, as far as I know, the KeyB started from Beatrix and was further developed by Dr. Kilander himself, until they eventually migrated to the DSP platform. Btw, saying that the KeyB was a Linux computer running "Beatrix" is a common mistake, since the Linux KeyB was a totally different program, despite derived from the Kilander's initial project which was Beatrix.

 

I played the KeyB with the Linux computer in 2007 and the new DSP version in May 2009, they sounded similar but not the same. Of course the newer version sounded better, especially the rotary simulation, but for some reason I liked the first better... don't ask me why.

 

As for the wood vs. MDF question, I know that there will be "custom" versions of the Hamichord made with hardwood like mahogany, walnut and maybe cherry-wood, but of course they will be a bit more expensive than the basic version and will be made under specific request.

 

Using MDF instead of wood helps to keep the price in the "reasonable" range while keeping the instrument robust and stable, and makes it possible to replace the whole cabinet, in case it gets damaged by usage, without spending a fortune. And it looks quite good, though!

 

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The New B3 from Hammond-Suzuki has a 9-contact analog keying system that feels remarkably similar to the original Hammonds.

 

Hi Jim!

It's true, but the New-B3 uses a proprietary keybed and is out of any possible comparison with human-affordable clones. Having real 9-contacts (they're actually 10) is part of the reasons why it costs more than 20 grand!

 

 

 

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Interesting Guido you should say you prefer the Linux based sound of the KeyB as opposed to the DSP version. I'm going to send mine off for the updates next month, primarily having the USB will allow easy updates to the software. Maybe you will be able to roll back to the Linux version at some point.

 

Elvio gave me a list of the improvements

 

I've left out the computer inside and there is my DSP hardware inside.

This means:

Turn on and play

Better sound, keyclick, reverb, overdrive and dynamic

Tones controls

String Bass with legato control

Master volume Normal/Soft

Leakage control

I changed the panels controls, drawbars, preamp and power supply.

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Using MDF instead of wood helps to keep the price in the "reasonable" range while keeping the instrument robust and stable, and makes it possible to replace the whole cabinet, in case it gets damaged by usage, without spending a fortune. And it looks quite good, though!

 

Thanks for the info. Yes the MDF does look quite good. For those that want to spend more it is great that there are other options while keeping the instrument **affordable**. Like I said sometime in the future, I will most likely when it fits my schedule refit hardwood on my version 1 HC (that I am still very satisfied with) that is actually quite adequate (existing panels). No big project. The panels come right off as you know.

 

One thing I am wondering about the DSP version of the Keyb is that Diversi use to/does profess (I would imagine the Keyb also) that they can copy any Hammond tonewheel or clone to your existing vintage B3 (3series) to sound like it. Would take a day or something with the original vintage. It would seem to me the DSP would be more read-specific and perhaps not as writable like the Linux board. Maybe not. I just found a article from Feb 2008 about "custom cloning". One has to wonder if the DSP puts an end to this capability.

 

I think all updaters (people) of anything in digital instruments should exhibit **great caution** and really dig in to get all the facts of the update and listen to the changes if possible. This goes for OS updates too. Some years ago I had the digital CX3 that everyone raved about the V2 OS (yes I know I am not talking DSP but the same point) update and additional features.

 

Though tastes differ, I thought it severely changed the scanner for the worst that is a **MAJOR** feature of a clone. That was not reversible. It was claimed that the rotor sim was improved and was but if I had this today I would greatly prefer the V1 and just use the Ventilator. This would save the scanner. Even then I would have reversed the OS update. Never liked it as much. I was running into a 122 anyway back then and did not need the sim update. (and other minor features). I have seen the, now rare, V1s of this selling for a much higher asking price.

 

Hammond introduced the B3000 as kind of an update to get rid of the cumbersome (to manufacture) tonewheel, to exaggerate.

 

About the keyboard contacts for click. My own personal opinion is that pressing a key to get a partial tone is a non-issue as no one plays like that. Accurate click is more material. Why does it have to be linked to a specific key? It is dissonant. Any click could go on any key. I would think a 'random generator' by carefully observing the tonewheel vintage organ being played during a performance and mimicking the same click randomly. It might even be samples of the vintage click randomly generated on midi 'note on' with the otherwise modeled organ hybridizing the model with click samples. Tiny samples. Would not be 100 percent accurate because a hot keyboard without velocity could not emulate a slow press. Just one view.

 

You are 'the man'.

 

W

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Dears, my name is Elvio Previati and I'm the manufacturer of the KeyB organ. First of all I'm sorry for my english. I'm sorry if I know your forum only now also. My friend given me this link so I've read the posts of this topic. I wanted enter in this forum also because I'm reading some mistakes about the KeyB so if somebody needs informations about my products could be better that they ask to me directly. This because to ask impressions or informations to one of my competitors is the same to ask impressions to General Motors about Ford or others car manufacturers.

Sincerely

Elvio

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