PRO TOOLS LE vs. EVERYTHING ELSE

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Oh, and the Granatti Brothers (GForce) are selling their 24 track tape machine, for anyone who wants to get old school. Look on the Pittsburgh Craigs List. They're also getting rid of a bunch of compressors, pres, and other studio gear... all API, URiE, etc.

[Karl Sutton]

just wanted to throw DP into the list of contenders - able to use pretty much any interface, lots of built in goodies

[Cygnus64]

[Presonus' DAW software is pretty damn good from what I've read.

It doesn't have notation/staff view. I'm sure that most people probably don't even use it, but I'm lost without it.

[WWW]

There is a difference between needing 24 tracks or more, and needing 24 channels of simultaneous I/O.

 

Right! I am using an HD24 to record the 24 tracks live. (I feel that it is more stable than using a computer.) Then I will use PT to mix and master. PT LE can do that, right?

 

I also heard that PT MIDI is much improved... I used to use Sonar - but it was way too complex. I don't need that much nonsense in my MIDI - mostly I play and it remembers and plays back. (well, I do a bit more than that...)

[NYKeys]

I've made the switch almost a year ago.

 

The Plugins alone are to worth about 3 times the retail price of the DAW.

 

IMHO it sounds cleaner than Cubase.

Still haven't figured out how to map the patches in my board to PT. Cubase def made this process easy.

 

Still I would not go back to Cubase.

 

The PT also has a great Online Community and Resources

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

 

Right! I am using an HD24 to record the 24 tracks live.

 

You can do that, but there are no stability issues in recording 24 tracks with a computer. Piece of cake. There are companies in Europe using 48 tracks with Samplitude (I only know because Samp generated a custom skin for this client, so you know they have a bunch of workstations.), and if Samp can do it, so can everyone else because there are no secrets in the process. But if you've already got the HD24, what the heck, why not use it?

 

I used to do that when we used reel to reel tape and computers were still questionable. record to tape, dump to computer, edit and play back out to tape, then later, DAT, to go to duplication. Wastes a lot of time, though, making all those transfers.

 

PT and Samplitude are latecomers to MIDI, if I were doing a lot of MIDI work I'd probably look elsewhere. (Sonar would likely be my choice, but you, like me, didn't care for it.)

 

Just a little promotion of what I use: A lot of MIDI guys are happy with Samp, and the on-board effects are pretty fantastic. The AM stuff and Vandal get raves all the time. I know that for the simple MIDI work that I might do... using a MIDI controller, using MIDI to play various samples or instruments, Samp has that covered.

 

Bill

[Cygnus64]

The Plugins alone are to worth about 3 times the retail price of the DAW.

 

How are the softsynths?

[WWW]

Well...I already have the HD 24, and it has nice a/d converters (I think!) The signal path will go from the onstage mics - Toft ATB24 analog desk - HD24 - PT LE. Does this sound right to you guys?

 

For MIDI + DAW I will get a Digidesign 003 Rack.

 

PS- Sonar 8.5 just got reviewed in KB. How is it for DAW?

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Well...I already have the HD 24, and it has nice a/d converters (I think!) The signal path will go from the onstage mics - Toft ATB24 analog desk - HD24 - PT LE. Does this sound right to you guys?

 

For MIDI + DAW I will get a Digidesign 003 Rack.

 

PS- Sonar 8.5 just got reviewed in KB. How is it for DAW?

 

The problem that I see with the 003 is that (unless I'm reading it wrong) you get 8 channels of their converters and 8 channels of ADAT I/O (which will require converters). That does not meet your 24 track requirement. Just looking on the face of it, I could do better with my money if I wasn't locked into Pro Tools. In an ideal world you could dump 16 channels at once from the HD24, 8 going out the analog outputs and 8 going out the ADAT outputs (I assume it has them???), then you'd have to rewind, swap cables, and transfer the remaining channels. To my way of thinking, you've paid a lot of money to have to dance like that.

 

Does your console have direct outs on each channel? Otherwise you don't have 24 channels anyway, and you're locked into some sort of mixdown on record, using a combo of the groups and other outputs.

 

 

[Jim Alfredson]

Yes, you'd have to convert some channels back into analog and then back into digital to get them all into the 003. That's an extra and very unnecessary step.

 

If the HD24 has ADAT outputs for all 24 channels, I would go into the computer digitally by either using the RME card discussed before or the Presonus FireStudio Lightpipe:

 

http://www.presonus.com/products/Detail.aspx?ProductId=54

 

32 channels of ADAT to the computer via a single firewire cable.

 

If the HD24 is outputting a digital stream while recording you might be able to record to the HD24 AND the computer at the same time, saving you a step and giving you redundancy in case something goes wrong with the computer.

 

ProTools is the industry standard, but that doesn't mean it is always the best choice. In order to do what you want to do and get the best sound, you're looking at a lot more money if you go the ProTools route.

[Gus Lozada]

Why don't just use a swappable hard disk?

[ksoper]

Sonar 8.5 in 64-bit is really, really nice. It'll do everything you need it to do. More and more home studios in Nashville are going the Sonar route. Something you may want to look at is the V-700 studio system from Cakewalk/Roland. The guy I work with uses it and loves it. Very slick hardware, seamless integration with the PC.

 

[burningbusch]

Why don't just use a swappable hard disk?

 

I agree. This would be really lame if everything had to be re-recorded.

 

Busch.

[steadyb]

Presonus' DAW software is pretty damn good from what I've read.

I got a chance to see it at NAMM and it is pretty damn good from what I was shown.

[Cygnus64]

Sonar 8.5 in 64-bit is really, really nice.

 

Is there an actual sound difference between 32 and 64-bit?

[burningbusch]

Google provided me with a more reasonable answer.

 

You can transfer standard .AIFF or .WAV files from the ADAT HD24 to a

computer or even to the Internet using its built in Ethernet port. In fact, as youll

learn later in this document, you can set up the HD24 to act as its own FTP

server and access files from your web browser. You can even make files

available on the internet directly from the unit.

For even faster transfer speeds, the Alesis Fireport 1394 is now available for

both MAC and PC which allows for transfer speeds of up to 40MB/sec, and

the ability to utilize .SD and .SD2 files on a MAC.

 

Busch.

[ksoper]

Sonar 8.5 in 64-bit is really, really nice.

 

Is there an actual sound difference between 32 and 64-bit?

 

I think so, but that's my opinion. What struck me was how much different Sonar 8.5 looked and responded in 64-bit as compared to 32-bit. It was like opening an entirely new program. Very, very slick. Snappy response, quick waveform drawing, almost instantaneous mixdowns, and some very fine 64-bit plug-ins that rival anything I've heard from PT. Sonar has been on the forefront of 64-bit on a Windows platform and if anyone is considering a new PC/DAW, it would be worth their time to really sit down and look at Sonar/V-700.

 

 

[kanker.]

Sonar 8.5 in 64-bit is really, really nice.

 

Is there an actual sound difference between 32 and 64-bit?

It isn't really about sound (although having more "places" to work with gives you greater accuracy in your final product when you dither), but it's more about RAM access. A 64-bit app can access a theoritical limit of 16 exabytes of RAM (16 billion gigabytes). Chips aren't designed to have a direct 64-bit bus to the RAM though, so the actual limits of physical RAM are much lower, maybe a terabyte or so. Of course, the limits of the machine are what matters, but still, if you're running large 10+ GB sample libraries and have an app access the 16 or 32 GB of RAM that you have installed on your tricked out machine, you could potentially have the entire sample library loaded into RAM, thus giving you a ton more disk throughput.

[Cygnus64]

Thanks guys, here's another question: Is there much of a difference between recording at 24/44 and 24/96?

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Sonar 8.5 in 64-bit is really, really nice.

 

Is there an actual sound difference between 32 and 64-bit?

 

no.

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Thanks guys, here's another question: Is there much of a difference between recording at 24/44 and 24/96?

 

Probably not for your needs. Many many recordists stay at 44.1, since that will be their top end delivery system anyway. (unless they are working with digital video, which usually uses 48k.)

 

someone will undoubtedly say something like 'a good 44.1 converter will sound better than a cheap 96k converter...'. Well duh. a good anything is by nature better than a cheap anything else.

[ksoper]

And lest we forget, ain't none of us going to listen to a recording and say, "Boy, listen to that disk throughput!"

 

If the music sucks it doesn't matter what you recorded it on. Buy the rig that will earn you the greatest amount of money in the shortest amount of time.

[RichieP_MechE]

Oh, and the Granatti Brothers (GForce) are selling their 24 track tape machine, for anyone who wants to get old school. Look on the Pittsburgh Craigs List. They're also getting rid of a bunch of compressors, pres, and other studio gear... all API, URiE, etc.

 

Hey Bill, where are they listed? I checked musical instruments and electronics and couldn't find anything. Did I not look back far enough?

[Sven Golly]

Oh, and the Granatti Brothers (GForce) are selling their 24 track tape machine, for anyone who wants to get old school. Look on the Pittsburgh Craigs List. They're also getting rid of a bunch of compressors, pres, and other studio gear... all API, URiE, etc.

 

Hey Bill, where are the listed? I checked musical instruments and electronics and couldn't find anything. Did I not look back far enough?

 

Clonk here

 

[RichieP_MechE]

Thanks Sven! I didn't dig deep enough; my google-fu needs a little work.

[Sven Golly]

Thanks Sven! I didn't dig deep enough; my google-fu needs a little work.

 

Try and snatch the pebble from my hand, grasshopper.

[Steve Nathan]

just wanted to throw DP into the list of contenders - able to use pretty much any interface, lots of built in goodies

 

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

So are you guys saying that the HD24 either records wave files on FAT32 drives, or that the resulting files that are recorded are transferable via some other means than direct audio connections?

 

That would make a big difference in the kind of interface needed, depending upon the monitoring requirements.

 

I'm still not seeing the I/O of the console though. 24 direct channels? 24 subs? What?

[midinut]

I started off on my PC grabbing a cheap program called Cakewalk PC Music Pack 2003. It came with a MIDI interface and everything I needed! I tried working with it (and the DXi format instruments that were included) and never could quite wrap my arms around it. About a year later I bought a product which included Cubase VST. I installed it and learned that these were the guys that invented VST's. I was soon recording MIDI tracks left and right. Every time a new version came out I took a baby step and upgraded. There was Cubase Studio SX, SL, then Studio 4, and finally the last update I went all out with Cubase 5. The built in VST's have come so very far (though I do miss Hypersonic & XPhrase) that you can almost do everything one needs to do with the built-in tools. Audio is easy to do as is MIDI. Track limitation is not an issue. Logic tempted me years ago but lost me whaen they went Mac only (no disrespect to Mac users - I have 4-5 of them in the closet)

 

I have considered myself grabbing a PT LE system just to learn it and use it enough that I would know my way around it in a studio, and may still do that at some point. I am extremely satisfied with Cubase personally at this time. It works for me and my workflow. I record myself and an occasional guest artist. I do not record performances nor would I consider using my bedroom for such so my needs are a bit different than the OP.

[Jim Alfredson]

Bill@Welcome Home Studios, this is the console that the other Bill has currently:

 

http://www.toftaudiodesigns.com/atb24a.html

 

24 channels, direct out on all channels