How full time musicians earn their living

[Mr. B.]

If you are in a pro-touring band working for someone, or in your band you can have more than a six figure income. I did that for 35 years before three car accidents stopped it all. I have a degree in music. You are taught to perform to manage yourself. I also gave lessons. I had a wife and kids. I am a little surprised that no one else contributing on this forum has, or, is a pro touring player.

[David Loving]

where is steve nathan?

[Jim Alfredson]

To say things are tough here in Michigan is an understatement. I don't have another gig until February 11th. My last gig was January 10th.

 

Most gigs are out of state these days. More and more clubs here are either closing, eliminating music, or hiring bands for way less money than is reasonable for me to accept.

 

My wife has been looking for a job. Every month is a struggle to pay the mortgage and all the other bills. I honestly don't know how we pull through every month. We take advantage of low-income programs such as the Bridge Card (aka foodstamps) and our children are on Medicaid. I have no health insurance; I've never had health insurance, even growing up, save for a few years when my wife had a job with a local municipality.

 

When my father died in May of 2008 he passed his piano tuning business to me and that has helped. I have hundreds of clients. Unfortunately I've been finding that most of them are older, the kids are grown, nobody plays the piano anymore so they are not interested in tuning it. And then of course there's the fact that money is so tight in Michigan, even if someone does play the piano, people can't afford to have it tuned. It's a luxury service and one of the first things to go when the family budget is tight. So I'm advertising, sending out postcards, trying to build up some new, younger clientele. I've been doing pretty well with that, but January / February have always been the worst months for piano work; I remember that as a kid.

 

For my next gig in February, I'm doing a short string of dates with a fairly well-known blues singer out of LA; I'm hoping that might lead to some good things.

 

It's sad that players at the level of someone like marino are struggling; but that's how this artform is. It doesn't really matter how good you are. It's a combination of luck, knowing the right people, and being at the right place at the right time.

 

I am a little surprised that no one else contributing on this forum has, or, is a pro touring player.

 

There are plenty of players here who could be, if given the opportunity. Myself included.

[Cygnus64]

'll try to list all the job types I've done in the past, in the hope of remembering them all...

 

Classical pianist (solo and chamber), composer (for TV, theatre, dance, songs, festivals), arranger, music director, pop/rock keyboardist, programmer, electronic performer (in contemporary music situations), music consultant, piano instructors for actors, jazz organist, jazz/fusion keyboardist, harpsichordist, theatre show pianist (for several years), music assistant for tv directors, "ghost" composer/arranger, sound man, opera accompanist, even stage director once.

 

man, you must be millionaire by now...

 

I don't know if you're trying to be funny, but just for the record, despite the many musical roles I'm able to cover, I'm having serious problems to survive at present, which at age 50 is not the ideal situation. In Italy, the state of the music business is even worse than in other Western countries, for a bunch of reasons I won't go into now. This, added to a series of personal circumstances and choices of the last 10 years or so, makes it very difficult for me at the moment. In the past,I've been able to buy an apartment, a few decent cars and some good instruments with my income as a musician, but now the scenario is radically different.

 

sorry to hear that but like in any other business you're once up - other time down, it's life. Obviously you need either a new manager or fresh repertoire or new audience or some luck.

 

 

I don't want to discourage you since you are a new member, but that was really poorly said.

[Coach]

This may be a helpful link for some business expenses:

 

http://www.musicianslifecoach.com/Musicians_Life_Coach.5.8/Business_Expenses.html

[Steve Force]

To say things are tough here in Michigan is an understatement. I don't have another gig until February 11th. My last gig was January 10th.

 

Most gigs are out of state these days. More and more clubs here are either closing, eliminating music, or hiring bands for way less money than is reasonable for me to accept.

 

My wife has been looking for a job. Every month is a struggle to pay the mortgage and all the other bills. I honestly don't know how we pull through every month. We take advantage of low-income programs such as the Bridge Card (aka foodstamps) and our children are on Medicaid. I have no health insurance; I've never had health insurance, even growing up, save for a few years when my wife had a job with a local municipality.

 

When my father died in May of 2008 he passed his piano tuning business to me and that has helped. I have hundreds of clients. Unfortunately I've been finding that most of them are older, the kids are grown, nobody plays the piano anymore so they are not interested in tuning it. And then of course there's the fact that money is so tight in Michigan, even if someone does play the piano, people can't afford to have it tuned. It's a luxury service and one of the first things to go when the family budget is tight. So I'm advertising, sending out postcards, trying to build up some new, younger clientele. I've been doing pretty well with that, but January / February have always been the worst months for piano work; I remember that as a kid.

 

For my next gig in February, I'm doing a short string of dates with a fairly well-known blues singer out of LA; I'm hoping that might lead to some good things.

 

It's sad that players at the level of someone like marino are struggling; but that's how this artform is. It doesn't really matter how good you are. It's a combination of luck, knowing the right people, and being at the right place at the right time.

 

I am a little surprised that no one else contributing on this forum has, or, is a pro touring player.

 

There are plenty of players here who could be, if given the opportunity. Myself included.

 

Unfortunately I cannot offer you anything more that my regards, deepest respect,and caring.

 

Hang in there my friend... Karen sends her regards as well.

[Coach]

It is sad to hear about the difficulties that musicians like you and Marino are facing. Thank you for sharing your experience.

 

I agree that part of success is, as you say "a combination of luck, knowing the right people, and being at the right place at the right time." However a periodic reassessment and expansion of our abilities prepares us to take advantage of new opportunities and be "at the right place at the right time" more often. These are rough times but they will get better. I truly wish you the best!

 

Here are some ideas that others have shared and you may be able to make use of:

 

Is there a local college or university with a music program that you can sell your services as an accompanist for voice and instrumental majors?

 

Can you teach piano tuning as well as keyboards?

Network with local wedding planner organizations?

Churches look for keyboardists and choir directors.

Hopsitality and tourism professionals book music. Some of their networking organizations are NACE, MPI and ISES.

None of these alone are a substantial income, but perhaps as varied tasks they may help.

 

Do you have an email list that you can offer club owners as a following to help fill their club? They're not interested in music. They want to sell food and beverage and musicians who develop a following help them sell food and beverage.

 

I hope things turn around for you soon. Perhaps some local Michigan musicians viewing this post can offer more conrete ideas. Best of luck

[Jim Alfredson]

Things will get better. Believe me, I'm looking into every option I can right now.

 

 

[kanker.]

Things will get better. Believe me, I'm looking into every option I can right now.

 

I'm considering getting the surgery done....

[Cygnus64]

Things will get better. Believe me, I'm looking into every option I can right now.

 

I'm considering getting the surgery done....

 

Me too. After years of putting it off, I'm finally going to get the penile reduction surgery. It will make flying easier, with the new X-ray machines and all.

[MonksDream]

Things will get better. Believe me, I'm looking into every option I can right now.

 

I'm considering getting the surgery done....

 

Me too. After years of putting it off, I'm finally going to get the penile reduction surgery. It will make flying easier, with the new X-ray machines and all.

LMAO!!! Masterful Cygnus!

[jimmymio]

Around here the sound guys don't make that much. Just for running - maybe $100/night. Bringing out their rig for a typical bar gig and running - $300-$500 for a bar (more like $1,000 for a festival with one helper), peanuts when you consider using/maintaining all that gear, storage, and transportation. The guys that do the festivals and large scale concerts do much better, but honestly I don't know what they net - I just know what they charge. For a comparable show with comparable gear to what I listed above, they'd charge at least 2-3 times as much, possibly more. But maybe that's just because they don't want to do the small shows.

 

Because I want to stay focused on the music, I've fought off the temptation to grow my sound business. I think I'm at a sweet spot. You take that $300-$500 and add a similar amount for playing the keys and it's a decent paycheck for a night's work. The initial gear outlay can be a bit steep but if you buy good quality it can last for several hundred shows. I've got my storage and transportation etc. streamlined.

Obviously not for everyone, but it's worked out great for me.

JP

 

[Ian Benhamou]

For my next gig in February, I'm doing a short string of dates with a fairly well-known blues singer out of LA; I'm hoping that might lead to some good things.

 

Man, trust me B3er I've been there many times.

 

The best piece of advice I could give you is to make sure you hit this next gig out of the park.

 

You definitely have the free time to prepare so take full advantage of it. Do research on this artist. Learn the songs inside out and backwards, and go as far beyond anyone's expectations as you could. This will maximize your chances of getting hired again.

 

In this business you have to stand out, without being complicated or bitchy or have any hangups. The best thing you could offer any artist as a sideman is to make the gig stress free and as comfortable as possible. Be as professional as you can.

 

There are plenty of players here who could be(touring pros) if given the opportunity. Myself included.

 

+1000000000

 

Any day, any where with anybody. Give me the chance and I'm there!

[mcgoo]

Churches look for keyboardists and choir directors.

 

Here's an avenue I would encourage anyone looking for extra work to get into. Of course, it helps if you're a Christian, but beyond that there's typically no theology training required.

 

Many churches today, especially mainstream denominations, are struggling to make the transition from traditional to contemporary. What often happens is they look to their organist (pipe, not B3) or choir director to be the music director. They soon learn that when they put this task in the hands of someone who has never played with a drummer or guitarist before, (let alone done a gig where they had to learn the music by ear and, gasp, improvise a little) that the results don't bring people in the door. Music is a MAJOR drawing force in churches today. Show me a mega church & I'll show you a kick butt music program run by a pro. Many churches can only offer a part time position for a music director, which can be ideal for a gigging musician who will need to sub out periodically. If you can learn tunes & chart them, coach musicians into laying out a groove, coach vocalists into not sounding operatic singing rock, then it's a gig worth looking into. In addition to a decent paying, regular but flexible "house gig", you might even find the spiritual feeding to be a nice fringe benefit.

[Coach]

Great positive feedback!

[Joe Muscara]

All good points, Mr McGoo.

 

There is one negative I want to bring up that was pointed out to me by a gigging keyboardist friend who does a church service as well. Getting up early for a Sunday service after you've had a gig late Saturday night can be quite a drag! Or do you just not go to bed at all?

[David Loving]

All good points, Mr McGoo.

 

There is one negative I want to bring up that was pointed out to me by a gigging keyboardist friend who does a church service as well. Getting up early for a Sunday service after you've had a gig late Saturday night can be quite a drag! Or do you just not go to bed at all?

 

that's where the prayer part kicks in

[Ian Benhamou]

All good points, Mr McGoo.

 

There is one negative I want to bring up that was pointed out to me by a gigging keyboardist friend who does a church service as well. Getting up early for a Sunday service after you've had a gig late Saturday night can be quite a drag! Or do you just not go to bed at all?

 

I got fired from a sweet gig in a synagogue choir because of this. The sabbath service was Staturday mornings and we had to be there to warm up at 8 am. I had gigs almost every Friday night so would very often show up late, or show up with a groggy voice and pillow marks on my face. Eventually they said I wasn't committing enough.

[mcgoo]

Yeah I've had plenty a Sunday morning where I was running on a few hours shut eye, but I'll catch up on my zzz's after service if needed. We also do a Saturday 5:30pm service & there are plenty times I'm flying out the door for an 8:00pm start somewhere.

[Coach]

It would be great to hear from more pro-tour and studio musicians.

 

Now that the NAMM show is over it would be helpful to hear from the musicians in retail and manufacturing including the product specialists, demonstrators and clincians.

[Coach]

Is there much studio- session work outside of NY, LA and Nashville?

 

 

 

[Ian Benhamou]

Over here in Montreal there is a decent amount of work. Because Quebec is the only French-speaking population in North America, there's a lot of TV work as well as studio work with all the francophone artists. Most of this work is union/guild so the conditions are great and pay is what it should be. TV gigs usually pay $600-$800 a night, and studio work is between $240-$300 a song.

 

If you're a gigger, Montreal has a vibrant nightlife scene. Unfortunately, most of the clubs are dominated by the DJ thing. Most of the bars/clubs which have live bands are either Irish Pubs or lounges.Standard pay is $125 a player plus food/beverage comped. This has been the standard ever since I started gigging 12 years ago. Meanwhile, the cost of living has gone up at least by 15-25%. So this is not the way to make a living.

 

There's also a ton of jazz cocktail gigs all around the city for happy hours, restaurants and cocktail parties. The pays are generally $150-$300 a player and these gigs a usually fairly short.

 

Corporate events and weddings always pay well ($250-$500). The thing is wedding season over here is in the summer, and corporate events are mostly in December. The well-established wedding bands are booked solid and do about 60-70 gigs a year, but if I did that many weddings in a year I'd probably put a gun to my head.

 

Many working pros around here make their living touring the province. Because most of these rural areas are culturally starved, they're willing to pay big bucks to bring bands from Montreal to their town or village and are usually very appreciative audiences. Tribute bands are very popular for this sort of gig as are local recording artists. These gigs pay anywhere between $400-$1000 a night with food and hotel. The wages vary depending on how far from Montreal the gig is and the "star-power" of your act.

 

 

[mcgoo]

There used to be a lot more jingle work here in Indy than there is now. With jingle work came a lot more available session work. Most of the custom music projects I do now are corporate video post scores, which often will be instrumental and not require a lot of outside talent (often just a guitarist). Jingles, on the other hand require singers, guitar, a rhythm section (if I can't convincingly pull that off myself), sometimes horn players, etc. To me, jingles are more fun, because I do get to hire a lot of outside talent. Doing a score by myself can be artistically satisfying, but I always worry about going blind if I do too much playing by myself.

[Cygnus64]

Is there much studio- session work outside of NY, LA and Nashville?

 

 

 

Dallas had a good amount when I lived there, New Orleans as well. That was a while ago and it's probably changed a lot. Dallas has a soundstage in Las Colinas for TV and film, and there is a recording studio in the complex.

 

Cleveland has very little.

[Coach]

I am not sure if too many keyboardists ever cross over to see what is happening on the Guitar Magazine Forums, but it is interesting to see the difference in the response to this same post.

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2154085/How_full_time_musicians_earn_t#Post2154085

 

For the record, there are usually 3 to 4 times as many people on the Keyboard Forums as there are on the Guitar Forums.

[kanker.]

For the record, there are usually 3 to 4 times as many people on the Keyboard Forums as there are on the Guitar Forums.

That's because most of us have regular access to computers and the internet at home and (for those with day jobs) at work. Most guitar players only get access when they're at their girlfriend's house...

[Joe Muscara]

or at the library since the coffee houses and anywhere else with public access computers don't let them in anymore.

[Jim Alfredson]

Guitar players know how to use computers?

[Coach]

It would be beneficial to everyone earning a living in the music industry to consider themselves as one commmunity, as opposed to keyboardists vs guitarists.

 

It is entertaining for humorous forum conversation, but we should be doing everything to encourage live music and musicians' interaction and comraderie. "Keyboardists vs DJs" is open game..

 

I am a little sensitive because I just returned from 3 trade shows that were better represented by DJ companies than live music agencies. If NAMM and MENC aren't going to help us represent the benefits of live music, we may need a grass roots effort. Music is all around us, let's profit from it!

[allan_evett]

Churches look for keyboardists and choir directors.

 

Here's an avenue I would encourage anyone looking for extra work to get into. Of course, it helps if you're a Christian, but beyond that there's typically no theology training required.

 

Many churches today, especially mainstream denominations, are struggling to make the transition from traditional to contemporary. What often happens is they look to their organist (pipe, not B3) or choir director to be the music director. They soon learn that when they put this task in the hands of someone who has never played with a drummer or guitarist before, (let alone done a gig where they had to learn the music by ear and, gasp, improvise a little) that the results don't bring people in the door. Music is a MAJOR drawing force in churches today. Show me a mega church & I'll show you a kick butt music program run by a pro. Many churches can only offer a part time position for a music director, which can be ideal for a gigging musician who will need to sub out periodically. If you can learn tunes & chart them, coach musicians into laying out a groove, coach vocalists into not sounding operatic singing rock, then it's a gig worth looking into. In addition to a decent paying, regular but flexible "house gig", you might even find the spiritual feeding to be a nice fringe benefit.

 

 

 

All good points, Greg. Being that this is my first post on this thread, it's a good subject for me to both respond to, and to springboard back to the original topic.

 

When I left the NW Indiana/Chicago area, I was teaching about 30 students weekly, gigging an average of 4 times a month, and covering the keyboardist/conductor chair, part time, for a contemporary worship service at a local, Lutheran church (small to mid size congregation). At that point, I was earning an income that essentially allowed my wife and I to share the bills somewhat equally. We weren't getting rich by any means, but were managing to survive, and occasionally thrive.

 

We came out to Colorado in June of '08, when my wife had an opportunity to take a step up in her career field. And so I started over, out here. It's been quite an experience, as I've had to advertise extensively in all of my areas of service; craigslist is a great help... After approximately one and a half years, my work is turning out to be divided up similarly to what it was in the midwest, but with one difference: no church gig. To partly make up for that, I take substitute teaching gigs when they come in. Also, I've started retailing a few lines of gear out of my home studio; a cool learning experience, but a very slow start - no doubt due, in part, to the economy. Still, all taken together, I'm not yet in a place where I'm able to cover the percentage of family income I once did. And, I'm still looking to be able to put my professional skills to use in a church setting: even minimal part time, contracted, denomination/size not important, etc.. I make use of some internet placement sites, but there are very few listings in CO; and more of those are in CO Springs than up north in my area. I've been on two interviews in the past year for p/t, local positions (found in local advertising). Also, have volunteered a few times for a church that hinted at a possible 'budget' for a paid contemporary accompanist in 2010; didn't happen, budget's 'frozen' 'til 2011.

 

To possibly survive as a full time musician in these times requires a lot of creative thinking, openness to diversifying, and a willingness to take on side, non-musical jobs - like sub teaching (I actually prefer non-music subbing to music subbing).

Also I'm finding, more and more, that I'm earning less of my income behind the keys, and more of it in supportive roles: teaching piano/keyboards, growing into the MI business, etc. While I do have a passion for teaching - especially with bright, eager students (usually older, too), my strongest musical passion is to play, both live and recorded. But that's a passion that we all share, and few of us are able to pull off f/t these days.

 

Hopefully my experience and reflections here have helped the OP. In the meantime, any suggestions for finding work and serving in the local church market would be great: new/different search sites, unique approaches, etc. As well as Greg, I suspect there are others on this forum who have worked in church music.