Outkaster Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 It's pretty hard to express an opinion on this forum when it comes to die hard Hammond Suzuki guys. I would like see what would happen if I said that Hammond stuff sucks. Yes! And It's pretty hard for them to express an opinion on this forum when it comes to die hard Hammond Suzuki Haters as well! Well after the last 7 years or so there have been more Nord fans around than Hammond-Suzuki, I am almost positive of that. It would be interesting to see a poll. "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobadohshe Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 One other point I forgot to make is that we don't know what kind of studio the OP has. The term "studio" is used for just about any kind of recording space these days. It could be anything from a professional facility to a basement home setup (like me!) where space is at a premium and only he and his bandmates are going to use. Exactly. I have a studio, we all have studios. This dude can put the Xk3c AWAY at the end of his sessions, which is very useful. Kawai C-60 Grand Piano : Hammond A-100 : Hammond SK2 : Yamaha CP4 : Yamaha Montage 7 : Moog Sub 37 My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section https://bobbycressey.bandcamp.com/album/cali-native Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 At least get something with drawbars, fer chrissakes. Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyClicker Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Well after the last 7 years or so there have been more Nord fans around than Hammond-Suzuki, I am almost positive of that. It would be interesting to see a poll. I also think there are more Nord fans, but I think that's because of the big range of vintage sounds these boards provide. I mean, such light keyboards with such great sounds of Wurli, Rhodes,... and also a great tonewheel sim. That's awesome for the majority of the keyboard players out there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 The XK-3c *feels* like a Hammond. The interface is intuitive, you can choose from several tonewheel profiles (leaky old road organ, "brand new" b-3, and many others, plus a real tube overdrive (if you like dirty)... The XK-3c is, in my opinion, $1000 better than the Nord. We compared and ended up with the Hammond. My experience as well. Its big & heavy but a truely lovely instrument that inspires me each time I play it. I totally agree... The XK3c Pro System feels like a real Hammond console... Not a lightweight toy that would go flying off the keyboard stand into the front row after a windmill chop. Check out 4:30 of this crazy clip... [video:youtube] '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400; Wurlitzer 200; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delaware Dave Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 i just A/B'd these two keyboards at Guitar Center two weeks ago with the leslie by-passed as well as the leslie on. Hammond was the clear winner from a "tone" perspective. I don't own either keyboard and have no allegiance to either company. 57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn Delaware Dave Exit 93 Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Towne Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 For the record, I chose Nord strictly on the basis of the B3 tones alone. Once the E3 came out, I sold my Xk3 and have never looked back. Endorsing Artist/Ambassador for MAG Organs and Motion Sound Amplifiers, Organ player for SRT - www.srtgroove.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Wow "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT156 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Wow is right. I'd say most players have to decide on what the primary mission of buying a KB for their act. If organ is your primary sound, I do believe that "most" organists and jazz musicians would probably go with a Hammond. No scientific evidence, just my gut feeling. The Nord certainly has captured a large amount of the market, but as Kevin always says "there's something about the sound of the Nord" (that he doesn't like). I agree with Kevin. Anyway, I can't afford to have him mad at me. cheers, Mike T. Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Towne Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Funny, my reaction to the demos of the SK1 have been the same...a very underwhelmed, "Wow," as in, "Wow...they are sticking with that software, eh?" With brands like Nord, KeyB and Crummar (VB3) stepping to the plate, I was really surprised that they doubled down on VASE III and decided to go after Nord in the area of additional instruments instead of working to further improve their emulation. Obviously, plenty of people think that the VASE III clone is fantastic, and more power to them. I think there are better options out there and I have done the test drives to back up my feelings. I wouldn't even consider the Sk1 when I heard that the sound engine wasn't really updated at all from the XK series. I had the Xk-3 for years and tweaked it endlessly and could not wait to try something else. I distinctly remember the day I got the E3. Everything I didn't like about the XK was better from the Nord. Every demo I have listened to of the XK3c and the SK1 sound just about identical to the XK3. No thank you. Mike, I sort of agree with you but I have a gut feeling that a lot of the players you are referring to are swayed by the Hammond name on the box. Maybe not, but you have to admit that it sure helps Hammond-Suzuki in the marketing department. I tried the Numa for over a month and tweaked it like crazy as well until I realized that I was chasing the sound I already had from the Nord. The Numa is nice and extremely realistic but it doesn't seem as inspiring or as crunchy as the Nord, no matter if I was using the internal sim, the Ventilator or the 147. I sold it and bought a C2. Smartest thing I did all year. The XK series isn't the end all of organ clones, no matter if it says Hammond on it or not...at least not for me. When I run the Nord C2 through the Ventilator or my 147...I get closer to "there" than with other available options. I grew to dislike the XK3 even through the 147. I am not the only person who thinks this, based on various forum posts and from the Clonewheel group. If you dig the current offering from Hammond, awesome. But I am a total stickler for my Hammond sound and I prefer Nord. (Not the E2 or original Stage Nord, mind you....Nord from the E3 forward. Big difference. Similar difference between the XK2 and the XK3.) This isn't based on additional sounds or weight or anything. Nothing but what it gives me when I run it through my 147 or the Vent (I rarely use any internal sim). We all have stories of how our rigs inspired grown men to weep and say, "That organ sounds amazing! What is that?" I even got those comments when I was using a VK-7! What matters most is what sounds inspire you to greater heights. Joey D can KILL on any clone but if you are really familiar with his playing, you always hear something a little extra when he plays a real Hammond B3 that you don't hear when he plays the various clones he has recorded with over the years (the "New" B3, the Diversi, the KeyB, whatever Hammond brand clone he used on the Live at the 5 Spot album, etc.) In other words, the sound and feel of the instrument can inspire you to better things, even if you are one of the greats. I have found that the Nord sound inspires me because I can get it to sound like I want it to - a gritty Chester Thompson / Joey D sound. I couldn't get as close to that with the XK as I do with the Nord. It is as simple as that. No matter what Scott May wants to believe, the XK or SK is a clone just like the others and should be judged accordingly. I have no loyalty to the name on the back, only to the sound that it gives me. I have no loyalty to Nord either. I tried the Numa and I guarantee that I won't be able to resist eventually trying the Crumar. My allegiance is up for grabs. Endorsing Artist/Ambassador for MAG Organs and Motion Sound Amplifiers, Organ player for SRT - www.srtgroove.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 To each his own, my friend... But I must disagree with you concerning the differences between the Xk3 and the XK3c. The sound of the XK3c is improved. Maybe its the updated overdrive... then newer Leslie sim... But I played both for years and there is really no comparison. I do share your surprise that on their new SK Series keyboards Suzuki did not step up to the current technology and expectations of musicians in the areas of Leslie sim and overdrive. To me this is a step backward. '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400; Wurlitzer 200; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I do share your surprise that on their new SK Series keyboards Suzuki did not step up to the current technology and expectations of musicians in the areas of Leslie sim and overdrive. To me this is a step backward. If they were going to do this (and I've no reason to suppose they won't - eventually), it makes sense that they leave this for the XK4, or whatever it will be called - their top-price portable needs to have some sort of leading edge. I would expect the other organ models and access to the sample library next time around, too. Meanwhile, I've a feeling the Leslie sim on the SK is, in fact, an improvement on the XK3c. If Jim , who works extensively with a Ventilator, feels he can get close to that on the SK (bar the overdrive), that suggests it is indeed a step up. I know Jim plays an XK3 rather than the c but he's presumably had plenty of opportunities to fiddle with the newer model and if he'd managed to come close to Ventilator standards there, I'm sure he'd have said so before now. As for the tube overdrive, as I've said before, I'm sure that's down to weight and/or cost considerations. Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37 Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I was able to tweak the sim on my xk3c to an acceptable level.... But its no where close to state of the art. Not like keyb, vb3 or ventilator. '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400; Wurlitzer 200; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Yeah, that's my point really, Dave. If Jim, who uses a Vent regularly, feels he can get close to that on a naked SK1, it would appear to suggest improvements have been made from the XK3c. Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37 Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzman Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I do share your surprise that on their new SK Series keyboards Suzuki did not step up to the current technology and expectations of musicians in the areas of Leslie sim and overdrive. To me this is a step backward. Agreed. The fact that they hadn't even listened to a Ventilator until a few short months ago indicates they had zero idea where the new leslie sim bar even was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 But again... Suzuki (being a mega-corporation who's only real concern is making money), would be competing with itself if they made their "Real Leslies" obsolete by having a state-of-the-art sim and overdrive... They are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Either step up and offer an excellent sim/overdrive like the KeyB, VB3, or Ventilator and lose Leslie sales, or intentionally downgrade the Leslie sim and overdrive, and lose sales to their competitors... '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400; Wurlitzer 200; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasGT3 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 But again... Suzuki (being a mega-corporation who's only real concern is making money), would be competing with itself if they made their "Real Leslies" obsolete by having a state-of-the-art sim and overdrive... They are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Either step up and offer an excellent sim/overdrive like the KeyB, VB3, or Ventilator and lose Leslie sales, or intentionally downgrade the Leslie sim and overdrive, and lose sales to their competitors... You know that is an excellent deduction, Holmes!! I prefer the C2 to even the C1 and E3 that I own and I also prefer them to XK3-c. But, the Crumar sounds awesome and the KeyB I played at NAMM also was beautiful. Hammonds to me always sounded a bit different between models and how they were amplified. All of us musicians have sounds that we remember from artists and songs we loved and we "hear" that sound in our head. Jazz cats like one sound, rock guys another, gospel and so forth. Therefore, there really is many different shades of perfect. Same debate for Rhodes clones, Wurly, AP's ad infinitum. I'm happy we now have so many good choices. . . . Kurzweil PC3x, Nord Electro 3, Nord C-1, Casio Privia PX-3, Yamaha DX-7, Korg Polysix, Moog Taurus 3, Yamaha Motif XS (rack),Ventilator, QSC K12, K10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LX88 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I agree with Mitch about the Nord C2. I have heard it sound great when I have played them and there are some great examples of recorded clips on You Tube. Some of the playing on the clips may not be the greatest, but I have no objections with the sound - as long as the leslie sim is not on. I personally preferred the updated C series Nord sounds to the XK series Hammonds. And yes, I agree that I see what appears to be an "allegiance" to the Hammond name, which at this point means nothing to me. I find it interesting that several people can't seem to get a crunchy sound from a Numa. This has not been my experience. Even the revered Ventilator produces simulated overdrive. In my headphone tests between the Numa overdrive and the Vent, the character was not all that different to my ears. The Vent benefits from a horn level control, which does help. I have posted previously about what does help the Numa - outboard EQ and speaker selection. But my experience has been that the Nord too has a sound to be reckoned with- particularly after hearing Will Boulware with Maceo Parker and David Matthews with Santana make the Nords sound very authentic and convincing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonianKing Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I agree with Mitch about the Nord C2. I have heard it sound great when I have played them and there are some great examples of recorded clips on You Tube. Some of the playing on the clips may not be the greatest, but I have no objections with the sound - as long as the leslie sim is not on. I personally preferred the updated C series Nord sounds to the XK series Hammonds. And yes, I agree that I see what appears to be an "allegiance" to the Hammond name, which at this point means nothing to me. I find it interesting that several people can't seem to get a crunchy sound from a Numa. This has not been my experience. Even the revered Ventilator produces simulated overdrive. In my headphone tests between the Numa overdrive and the Vent, the character was not all that different to my ears. The Vent benefits from a horn level control, which does help. I have posted previously about what does help the Numa - outboard EQ and speaker selection. But my experience has been that the Nord too has a sound to be reckoned with- particularly after hearing Will Boulware with Maceo Parker and David Matthews with Santana make the Nords sound very authentic and convincing. Hey LX88, Do you work for Studiologic? I have never seen you post something without mentioning the Numa. "The purple piper plays his tune, The choir softly sing; Three lullabies in an ancient tongue, For the court of the crimson king" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LX88 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 No.... I do not work for Studiologic. I am just a lowly consumer that happened to like what they offered. Mitch's post referred to the Numa "crunch" and I was addressing it briefly. I seem to get monitored a lot on this list. I see that you posted a police icon next to the word Numa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonianKing Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 No.... I do not work for Studiologic. I am just a lowly consumer that happened to like what they offered. Mitch's post referred to the Numa "crunch" and I was addressing it briefly. I seem to get monitored a lot on this list. I see that you posted a police icon next to the word Numa. I'm just pulling your leg, man...We're all "Classy" now, remember? "The purple piper plays his tune, The choir softly sing; Three lullabies in an ancient tongue, For the court of the crimson king" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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