I think I'm selling my piano

[Jim Alfredson]

It depends on how badly it is out. Pianos go out of tune and they can do so quickly depending on a multitude of factors. The pins themselves could be overly loose due to age. The pinblock could have problems. The environment is certainly a main factor. How often and how hard the piano is played is another.

 

It also depends on whether the piano is regularly tuned. If it is tuned at least once a year then it should stay in tune longer. It's hard to blame the tuner without evaluating each piano which is why I am prone to not jump on frogmonkey's tech.

 

 

Back to the discussion of older pianos, here's a rather insightful list of the old makers and which ones are worth finding and restoring.

 

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Forum/16/topic/000029/Number/0/site_id/1#import

[MonksDream]

Nice link, B3-er!

[Jim Alfredson]

Too bad you're not in MI.

 

http://flint.craigslist.org/msg/1500629088.html

 

Knabe's are wonderful pianos, if properly restored. Even the uprights sound great.

[Joe Muscara]

Would you expect that piano to need any work?

[kad]

I listened to the two recordings of the middle C, first the un-muted version, then the version with muted adjacent strings. This is what I'm hearing: in the un-muted version, the 7th harmonic overtone (roughly Bb, almost three octaves above the fundamental) is EXTREMELY prevalent. In the version with muted adjacent strings, the 7th harmonic is much less conspicuous, and it is the 2nd overtone (an octave above the fundamental) that I hear the most. Ill leave it up to the piano techs here to comment on how to tone down that nasty 7th overtone.

 

Actually, the overall tone of the piano (as a whole) doesnt bother me when I try to hear it in tune. As others have stated, it is definitely way out of tune but you already knew that.

 

[SK]

Yeah, I've played some nice Knabes. Years ago, Chickering had some nice pianos too.

 

For this piano - it's hard for me to make observations about it until it's been properly tuned and possibly regulated. Tuning is the first drastic improvement to be made, and anything else needed may be subtle in comparison. A qualified tech is the answer. How well it tunes up and long it stays in tune will be the main factors as to whether to keep it.

 

I wouldn't dismiss it yet. It sounds like it still has life left in it, if it will stay in tune.

[Jim Alfredson]

Would you expect that piano to need any work?

 

Probably a bit of regulating, maybe some felt replacement here and there. Depends on how extensive the restoration was in the mid-80s but that was 20 years ago, too. The ad says it has reshaped hammers, ie original hammers. They probably need replacing. I'd have to go see it for myself, but $2500 is still very reasonable for that piano.

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

One of the recording guys I know in Nashville was recently telling me of a female player who now has a barn full of grand pianos. She let it be known that she was looking, and got most of them for free. Shes not really happy to store them in a barn, but better that than them being tossed into the trash.

 

I don't know what quality 'student' pianos are bought in your area. Here, there are a stupid number of colleges, and some, like CM-U, have decent music departments. Periodically they swap out their pianos, and have big piano sales. One local music school recently sold the electric pianos from their music labs, some model Roland, for around $100 each. I've no idea what the in-house piano is for a place like CM-U these days, but I'd expect it to be decent.

 

What is the forum 'take' on parlor pianos? I see Steinways for affordable prices, and being all thumbs, one of these would likely satisfy my desire for a home piano, being better than an upright, but not as large as a 'real' piano.

[Joe Muscara]

Turns out, at least some of those "university music department piano sales" are kind of a scam. They make it seem like they are offering you the school's older pianos so they can get newer ones in better shape. While some of the previous year's pianos might be in there, most of what they are selling are pianos from the area dealer. Somehow the school is making money on this, and it seems *that* is most of what they raise for new pianos. At least, that's what University of Houston/area Steinway dealer is doing. When we went, they had real piano salesmen who they shipped in from out of state trying to sell people pianos. You know the guys, when you finally get to the end and aren't buying anything, get pissed off at you and blow you off because you "wasted their time." Even car salesmen aren't that dicky.

[frogmonkey]

Too bad you're not in MI.

 

http://flint.craigslist.org/msg/1500629088.html

 

Knabe's are wonderful pianos, if properly restored. Even the uprights sound great.

 

I've heard good things about Knabe before. That looks like a good price!

[wmp]

I don't share B3-er's enthusiasm for, or optimism about this piano. I see a piano that could easily need much more work than it's worth.

 

The tuning pins are not .060" (that's more like a fat guitar string), they're 6/0 or .301", meaning this piano has been restrung and or repinned at least twice. It can't be done again without replacing the pinblock. One could speculate that a hundred year old pinblock might be in good shape after having at least three sets of tuning pins pounded into it, but I have reason to suspect it could be more like rock maple shredded wheat. It's impossible to be sure about tuning stability without tuning it and beating on it. Even if it passes that test, I've never met anything 5'1" or anything with 6/0 tuning pins that was a lot of fun to tune.

 

I think it'd be very unusual for a piano of this age to have no splitting around the bridge pins. It doesn't take a lot of that to cause serious problems. Problems that aren't cheap or easy to fix.

 

Old pianos can be very nice, some can be incredibly nice, but for every one of those, there are many more that aren't. To be worth a look for me, it'd have to be 6' or better.

 

RPT does not equal concert piano tuner, but guild membership probably means a lot more than it did before the adoption of standardized testing about thirty years ago. I'm sure it's still true that many who would pass the PTG test would not pass mine.

 

The last time I tested a tuner to tune for folks who trusted me, I was less scientific, more demanding, and more brutal about it. I had him tune a new C3 or G3. When I sat down to check it out a mere half hour later, I beat the living crap out of it before I listened to anything. Because if it doesn't stay in tune, it's not really tuned. The look of horror on his face was absolutely priceless. But he did pass with flying colors. I'd trust him to tune anything for anybody and lay down the best tuning a piano can take. A rare cat who is also a top shelf player. NEC PhD.

 

The guild might still set the bar a little low for my taste with regard what is a good tuner, but there are also standards for what is an acceptable test piano. None of the pianos we're talking about here qualify. Based on the two examples I've heard, nothing made by Boston is likely to cut it.

 

 

[Dave Ferris]

My tech plays or attacks the notes REALLY HARD. Much harder than I ever play.

Maybe that's one reason his tunings stick so well.

[wmp]

We call 'em test blows. No other way to be sure it's going to stay put.

 

[Jim Alfredson]

Like I said, I'd have to look at the piano before buying it but in my experience older Knabe's are worth the effort to restore. Even if you have to put in a new pinblock, bridges, and soundboard though I agree that in order for the work to be economically viable the piano should be over 6'. That said, they are spectacularly made pianos.

 

But that's just me.

 

 

[frogmonkey]

An update on the Boston:

I started to treat the room, acoustically, just getting a feel for it. I haven't built real acoustical panels yet.

 

I hung a bunch of "sound absorbing sheets" from Audimute in the room. There are 7 windows, including the one on the interior door ! Two of them are large. It took 10 sheets to cover them (the sheets are 3' wide).

 

Then I walked around the room, hitting a woodblock, and trying to locate the nastier echos. I propped up folded up Audimute sheets into a couple of ceiling corners.

 

What a big difference! It didn't transform the piano into a Bosendorfer or a B, but it is much more pleasant-sounding than before. The lid is closed, and I'll keep it that way except when a drummer is here. I am still looking for a better piano, but I don't feel as urgent about it (I called off the potential buyer). The bass still sounds like crap.

 

Most importantly, though, is that it no longer seems like a chore to practice. I had an injury that didn't allow me to practice for about two months. The only instrument I could comfortably play was the drums (thus the new hihats, which led to the realization that I didn't like the sound of the piano). Once the injury healed, and I could practice again, I found myself not wanting to. Now I like it again!

[Joe Muscara]

Good for you! I am now again jealous of you owning a real piano.