Griffinator Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I heard an interview with Portnoy about Metallica and him hoping that they went back to their old ways with the new release. Why is it so bad for a band to evolve? I have like every single album that Metallica has put out....even St. Anger. Why is it so bad that he doesn't like the direction they evolved in over the decade and a half since And Justice...? I kinda think that they devolved over that time period, so I get where he's coming from. A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumpelstiltskin. Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 1) - Griff. Point taken. What do I know of veegans anyway? not much, apparently. starting with spelling it properly. robb. because i like people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moot Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I spell it w-e-i-r-d-o. "He is to music what Stevie Wonder is to photography." getz76 I have nothing nice to say so . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumpelstiltskin. Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 ...The Grateful Dead or Phish, two bands that I personally do not like and would push the button for in an instant. don't do it! think of the wookiees! robb. because i like people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bear Jew Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 And five or six pages later, all I've gotten in DT's favor is that the members of this band are all really technically skilled and have a lot of fans who appreciate this... Oooo. Actually, I've offered more than that, but you kinda sneered at it in your usual offhand way. It's OK, I'll explain it again. I get the complexity of their arrangements. I understand the movements from here to there to everywhere. It challenges my intellect - something I greatly appreciate when I sit down to just listen to music, as opposed to using music as sonic wallpaper, in which case I prefer something a little less engaging, because it becomes a distraction after a certain point. The part that's incomprehensible to me is how folks dismiss movement that makes perfect sense to me as "wankery". What you call "wanking", I call a beautiful transition from one place to another. What you call "complexity for complexity's sake", I call a song that takes you through many journeys, instead of just one. And I get that you don't dig it. Not everyone likes to take a hop around the world in six minutes. But a lot of us do, and it's not in a "gee whiz those guys are so talented and amazing players" way, it's in a "these songs move my soul and challenge my intellect" way. The virtuosity part is kind of necessary to execute the compositions. See, this is a good explanation of Dream Theater's appeal... if I ignore the part where you say something about me sneering in my usual offhand manner. I'm far too pretty to sneer. I'll cop to having an offhand manner, though, mainly because I don't know what it means, but it sounds kind of cool. As I said before, I get what's going on in DT's music, but it just doesn't move me, so, basically, the things you dig about this band are the same things I dislike... and that's fine. People like different things because people are different. I get the impression that people around these parts think I only like really straight-forward rock music... the dumber and more plodding the better. That's not quite true, but if folks want to consider me a musical luddite, I'm OK with that, too. *Jerry Springer guest voice* "Ya'll don't know me! Whatever! Whatever! I'll do what I want!" For the record (I'm not gonna go back and check, though) I don't think I ever used the term "wankery" in this thread--that was other folks. \m/ Erik "To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." --Sun Tzu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rizzo9247 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Dream Theater is the w00t. Now, Defend the Bongo! http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d110/roburado/06_12_Bongo6_Silver_Front.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bear Jew Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 Holy crap. It looks like a toilet seat vomited up a bass neck. \m/ Erik "To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." --Sun Tzu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Daddy from Motown Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Dream Who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yourlord Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Holy crap. It looks like a toilet seat vomited up a bass neck. Agreed. Feel free to visit my band's site Delusional Mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcadmus Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I'll cop to having an offhand manner. If you'd only said a "cavalier manner," I could have replied "The Cavalier Manor -- that's where I spent my wedding night!" I get the impression that people around these parts think I only like really straight-forward rock music... the dumber and more plodding the better. Well don't look at me -- my favorite band is AC/DC. "Tours widely in the southwestern tip of Kentucky" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seamy ALB Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Dream Theater is the w00t. Now, Defend the Bongo! http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d110/roburado/06_12_Bongo6_Silver_Front.jpg I like it, it has the right amount of Strings...... Aaaaaaaa Haaaaa haaaaaaaa. I'd prefer a natural finish though. http://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Little-Bitter/185235472447 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 See, this is a good explanation of Dream Theater's appeal... if I ignore the part where you say something about me sneering in my usual offhand manner. I'm far too pretty to sneer. I'll cop to having an offhand manner, though, mainly because I don't know what it means, but it sounds kind of cool. That was specifically referencing the fact that I said something very similar to this a LOT earlier in the thread, you just ignored it. "offhand" could best be described as not really putting effort into what it is you're doing, which is very true about most of your posting around here - you post, and you chat, but it's not something you're willing to invest an enormous amount of energy on. As I said before, I get what's going on in DT's music, but it just doesn't move me, so, basically, the things you dig about this band are the same things I dislike... and that's fine. People like different things because people are different. (Kinda what Yourlord said. ) I get the impression that people around these parts think I only like really straight-forward rock music... the dumber and more plodding the better. That's not quite true, but if folks want to consider me a musical luddite, I'm OK with that, too. Nah, we've had a similar conversation via e-mail before. You like your metal to be big and scary and Godzilla-like, where I prefer mine to be more high-energy and Charge-Of-The-Light-Brigade-esque. For the record (I'm not gonna go back and check, though) I don't think I ever used the term "wankery" in this thread--that was other folks. I know you didn't, but the term came up so much, and it's such a nasty way to describe any kind of music. I usually reserve that insult for people with egos that far outstrip their songwriting abilities. I can't see where that would apply to this band. A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fingertalkin Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I like the responses from those who haven't heard more than one tune from whoever is being discussed but chose to post anyway. By "those" you mean me. You have been going after me in quite a few threads recently. Your comment was just as useless as mine. Why can't I just pad my post count and try to hit the 1000 mark without any comments from the peanut gallery? Sheesh man! Sheesh indeed. Don't be so testy. I'm not after anybody. Try valium and malt liquor for persistent paranoia. I am not testy.....sarcastic maybe...not testy. I prefer tequila anywho. How do you sign a computer screen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fingertalkin Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I heard an interview with Portnoy about Metallica and him hoping that they went back to their old ways with the new release. Why is it so bad for a band to evolve? I have like every single album that Metallica has put out....even St. Anger. Why is it so bad that he doesn't like the direction they evolved in over the decade and a half since And Justice...? I kinda think that they devolved over that time period, so I get where he's coming from. How does a band devolve? I like everything they have done. I just don't understand why another person thinks they can decide what someone should do with their art. How do you sign a computer screen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bear Jew Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 That was specifically referencing the fact that I said something very similar to this a LOT earlier in the thread, you just ignored it. "offhand" could best be described as not really putting effort into what it is you're doing, which is very true about most of your posting around here - you post, and you chat, but it's not something you're willing to invest an enormous amount of energy on. Believe it or not, I do put a good bit of thought into my serious posts here--do you remember the "Posting Hesitation" thread? That's a real thing for me. While I do not put an enormous amount of effort into the forums, I do usually take a bit of time to consider how my non-silly responses to threads will be received. More often than not, I will censor myself and simply not respond to threads because I don't want to deal with the nonsense that will surely arise afterwards. As a result, I suppose I wind up coming off as offhanded because the majority of the responses I do wind up posting are the goofy ones. So, I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong in having this perception of me being very blase in the forums, but that's mostly a function of self-censorship. In light of this, I must have bumped my head at some point in the day before I decided to create this thread... because, honestly... now we're at... nine pages of conversation over something I just kinda thought might be kind of amusing. See what happens when I ignore my posting hesitation? Anyway, regarding the "big scary metal" thing... I do prefer the slower, groovier metal stuff most of the time--except for bands like Motorhead and some others. And regarding "wankery"--yeah. I just don't use the term... not because I think it's rude... I just think "wankery" sounds dumb. I also don't think DT is wanky; I think DT is irritating in much the same way I find Dave Matthews Band irritating. Maybe DT just isn't dirty enough for me. I dunno. \m/ Erik "To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." --Sun Tzu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcadmus Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 You're dirty enough for me. Oh man, that TOTALLY didn't come out the right way! "Tours widely in the southwestern tip of Kentucky" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 "To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." --Sun Tzu You Can Do It!!!!! "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rizzo9247 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 where I prefer mine to be more high-energy and Charge-Of-The-Light-Brigade-esque. That's made me laugh and think of why I love Iron Maiden How does a band devolve? Going from a very, dare I say, progressive Justice album to a fairly straight ahead Black album (which also kicks arse). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenfxj Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 How does a band devolve? http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/4012367/Devo+3.jpg I like Devo. Push the button Frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 You can do it "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Crap... You must whip it..... my mistake.... (too dry?) "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 where I prefer mine to be more high-energy and Charge-Of-The-Light-Brigade-esque. That's made me laugh and think of why I love Iron Maiden How does a band devolve? Going from a very, dare I say, progressive Justice Master of Puppets album to a fairly straight ahead pedestrian ReLoad (which also kicks arse sucks like Nickelback). Fixed your post. A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rizzo9247 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Agreed. One Point Awarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenfxj Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 And five or six pages later, all I've gotten in DT's favor is that the members of this band are all really technically skilled and have a lot of fans who appreciate this... Oooo. Actually, I've offered more than that, but you kinda sneered at it in your usual offhand way. It's OK, I'll explain it again. I get the complexity of their arrangements. I understand the movements from here to there to everywhere. It challenges my intellect - something I greatly appreciate when I sit down to just listen to music, as opposed to using music as sonic wallpaper, in which case I prefer something a little less engaging, because it becomes a distraction after a certain point. The part that's incomprehensible to me is how folks dismiss movement that makes perfect sense to me as "wankery". What you call "wanking", I call a beautiful transition from one place to another. What you call "complexity for complexity's sake", I call a song that takes you through many journeys, instead of just one. And I get that you don't dig it. Not everyone likes to take a hop around the world in six minutes. But a lot of us do, and it's not in a "gee whiz those guys are so talented and amazing players" way, it's in a "these songs move my soul and challenge my intellect" way. The virtuosity part is kind of necessary to execute the compositions. I am of the opinion that THIS is the single most annoying thing about DT. Dream Theater's music may or may not be wankery. This post however? ce' magnifique! "You don't like Dream Theater? Well you're just not smart enough to understand it. You have to be smart like me to get Dream Theater." Push the button Frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 "You don't like Dream Theater? Well you're just not smart enough to understand it. You have to be smart like me to get Dream Theater." I'm sorry that's how you perceived the post. There are a lot of bands out there I don't get, but other people like them. Does that mean I'm not smart enough? Why does it have to be like that, Ken? A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Sweet Willie_ Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 (which also kicks arse sucks like Nickelback). Talking about a button to push...yep. Peace. --s-uu spreadluv Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars. Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenfxj Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Griff, I don't see how you can interpret your post as not being rather snarky or condescending. Kind of like discussing politics with someone from the far right or far left. If you don't agree with me it's either because you're stupid or you "just don't get it". Like I've said. I have two good friends who are big into DT and because of this I've fallen into a good-natured (to me) "bust on Dream Theater" habit. You should hear what they say about The Clash! I've listened to at least four of Dream Theater's CDs. Not my thing, mainly because the music doesn't do it for me. Not because I don't get it. If the music moves you, like I've said before, that's a beautiful thing. Truly. Push the button Frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumpelstiltskin. Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I am of the opinion that THIS is the single most annoying thing about DT. Dream Theater's music may or may not be wankery. This post however? ce' magnifique! "You don't like Dream Theater? Well you're just not smart enough to understand it. You have to be smart like me to get Dream Theater." no shit. if dream theater challenges your intellect, you're a mental midget. robb. because i like people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddiePlaysBass Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I am of the opinion that THIS is the single most annoying thing about DT. Dream Theater's music may or may not be wankery. This post however? ce' magnifique! "You don't like Dream Theater? Well you're just not smart enough to understand it. You have to be smart like me to get Dream Theater." no shit. if dream theater challenges your intellect, you're a mental midget. robb. Now that is what I call condescending. [edit] Like I stated before, and acknowledging that it was not Erik's intent to do so, this thread automatically puts DT fans on the defensive. Whatever reason we give for liking the band is either pushed aside or ridiculed. Just because we like DT for its musical complexity, and said musical complexity appeals to our brain or intellect or pinky finger for all I care, does not imply that we believe people who don't like it to be morons. I don't "get" bands like Madball or most death metal bands or Christina Aguilera. Does that make me an idiot ? No. What makes me an idiot is continuously getting sucked back into this discussion. "I'm a work in progress." Micky Barnes The Ross Brown Shirt World Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumpelstiltskin. Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 it was definitely insulting, and it was meant to be. i don't think you've contributed at all to the attitude that dream theater fans are really smart, nor do i think that attitude is particularly prevalent in this thread. no offense to prog-heads, but difficulty is what distinguishes it. i like rush to a degree, but even rush doesn't challenge intellectually (unless counting to 7 in a different cadence is a challenge). it does challenge my fingers. i've tried playing jazz. i'm not smart enough, because i'm a mental midget, too. there's nothing intellectually challenging about dream theater. that doesn't invalidate that your intellect is challenged by their music, nor does it make it a bad reason for you to like them. i get tired of prog-heads and metalheads talking about how difficult their music is to play as a validation of its value, or my personal favorite, how long a song is. robb. (this is fun.) because i like people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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