Defend the Existence of: Dream Theater

[Tom Capasso]

Looks like I'm going to be the first to say it.

 

You don't have such a button.

 

I don't want any living thing to become a pulpy mass (well - I've taken out a number of those camelback crickets).

 

On another DT thread, I mentioned that I was unfamiliar. EPB(David) sent me some. Better than I expected - I could listen, but I didn't become a fan. Let them have their adherents. I like bands that most don't (where are my Cactus followers??). So what - there are lots of bands/artists I'd silence first.

 

I'm shocked our friend Erik has given them this much attention. I wonder - is there a Myung 6 hiding under his bed?

 

Tom

[kenfxj]

You're hiding under his... oh never mind.

[picker]

Mmmmm, I LOVE me some cornbread!

 

YAY-es, A-may-un! That's the good stuff, baby! Throw in some pan fried taters with yellow crookneck squash mixed in with it, white beans and ham hocks, and you're talkin' dinner!

 

And that what I like abut the South...

[jeremy c]

I'm shocked our friend Erik has given them this much attention. I wonder - is there a Myung 6 hiding under his bed?

 

and Erik is a guy who loves bands that have sold about 14 cds and have only about 100 loyal fans (the other 86 just copy the cds from their friends.)

[DavidMPires]

DT is one of my favourite bands, and so is Dave Matthews Band, Tool and Jamiroquai. You know I have a thing for bands that people love to hate.

 

Not everyone likes the same thing, I was going to start a thread about pushing a button on Jaco because I can't get myself to like it, but unfortunately the dude is longer here.

So if the guy was alive who would help me push the button?

[moot]

I have most everything DT has put out over the years including their concert DVD's. The best being Live at Budokan.

I have seen them 3 times and they really do well live but, here's the appeal for me. Every member of that band is a virtuoso. They are collectively a virtuosi and have proved time and again that they can play anything they want to play.

Sure, not all their stuff blows my skirt up but there are some songs (and even passages of songs) that move me.

That and I like to practice too it because Myung has insane skills - it makes me realize how slow and unimaginative I am.

[Griffinator]

And I've never had a problem with wankery for wankery's sake...Ted Nugent.

 

See, when I think of wankers, this is exactly what I think of - Ted Nugent, and on a different level Yngwie Malmsteen and his ilk - people who just use "songs" as a bed to show off their lead playing skills.

 

I don't get how complex musical arrangments are douchebaggery. They require a great deal of thought and precision amongst the entire band.

 

Douchebaggery is the rest of the band standing around thumping idiotically simple chord beds while one guy stands at the front of the stage and says "Look at me move my fingers at high speed!" - or worse, the eight minutes after each of those mind-numbingly boring songs is over where he does the same thing, only the rest of the band has stopped playing and is just as bored as everyone else in the room.

 

Nah, I'll take Dream Theater over wanker guitar god "bands" any day.

 

But then I actually like music that challenges me mentally. I love me some Mothers of Invention, or Mr. Bungle, where everything sounds like total chaos, yet is orchestrated down to the last bird whistle and trash can lid slam, and can be repeated live with same precision.

 

Meanwhile, I can also get down on some simple, straightforward, unpretentious stuff, as long as it's being delivered with an unpretentious "we suck and we know it, and f*** you anyway" attitude.

 

The only bands that really piss me off are the one-trick ponies who think they're all that and a pack of Ernie Balls.

 

So, if you're going to do the human Cuisinart number, let it be on bands like Nickelback, or Staind, or Slipknot or something.

[dcr]

I am a prog fan. I love long, exploratory pieces. I can listen to King Crimson for ages, and will put on repeat the songs that are atonal counterpoint Frippertronics improvisations. One of my favorite Yes songs is the 20-minute "Close to the Edge," and I have been known to keep Tales from Topographic Oceans in constant play in my car for weeks at a time. I once kept Keys to Ascension in my office CD player for about 6 months. My favorite stuff from Pink Floyd are the long, experimental mid-sections of songs like "Echoes" and "Dogs." I have listened to Snow by Spock's Beard repeatedly. I have watched and enjoyed DVDs featuring Swedish bands where the opening tune was about 45 minutes long and played before probably 20 people.

 

And I even I think that Dream Theater is just godawful wankery.

[Nicklab]

I totally understand what you're saying, dcr. Totally. I'm definitely much more from that prog school than anything like Dream Theater.

 

People try to slap the progressive label on TOOL. In some ways I see that as somewhat appropriate as they're trying to blaze a trail forward in metal.

 

But back to the point, Dream Theater still seems like a holdover from the LA rock/pop metal scene of the mid to late 1980's. Somehow they're still managing to hang on. But in my eyes that makes them an anachronism. Like they're trying to hang onto something. And in their case it seems to be an audience of almost exclusively white, middle aged guys in black t-shirts.

 

[Griffinator]

But back to the point, Dream Theater still seems like a holdover from the LA rock/pop metal scene of the mid to late 1980's. Somehow they're still managing to hang on. But in my eyes that makes them an anachronism. Like they're trying to hang onto something. And in their case it seems to be an audience of almost exclusively white, middle aged guys in black t-shirts.

 

Seriously? The late 80's LA scene?

 

So you're basically saying that Dream Theater is a more evolved version of Motley Crue/Poison/LA Guns/Ratt/et al?

 

Words cannot describe my dismay....

 

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[Juancarlin]

Every member of that band is a virtuoso. They are collectively a virtuosi and have proved time and again that they can play anything they want to play.

 

That is exactly the same reason why I love Living Colour.

[jeremy c]

And why I love the Meters.

 

They are virtuosos in a different kind of way.

[getz out]

So you're basically saying that Dream Theater is a more evolved version of Motley Crue/Poison/LA Guns/Ratt/et al?

 

Words cannot describe my dismay....

 

I agree. That is insulting to Motley Crue/Poison/LA Guns/Ratt/et al.

[moot]

So you're basically saying that Dream Theater is a more evolved version of Motley Crue/Poison/LA Guns/Ratt/et al?

 

Words cannot describe my dismay....

 

I agree. That is insulting to Motley Crue/Poison/LA Guns/Ratt/et al.

 

Good stuff

 

 

[duff beer]

Most of those who are defending DT make reference to their technical skills, but very few have said that they have written some good songs.

 

For me the song comes first...if a band can't write good songs then I have very little interest, regardless of their technical prowess.

[rizzo9247]

They sure are one of those polarizing bands, eh?

 

Dream Theater still seems like a holdover from the LA rock/pop metal scene of the mid to late 1980's.

They have been some grumblings from fans that they have become 'too metal' post-millennium. I for one like the heavier side, but do enjoy the softer stuff as well.

 

 

 

Hypothesis: DT is more popular outside the US.

[kenfxj]

Hypothesis: DT is more popular outside the US.

So is David Hasselhoff.

[Cthulhu Fhtagn]

Hypothesis: DT is more popular outside the US.

So is David Hasselhoff.

Gawd!

[davio]

Oh wow...I don't check the boards for a couple days and this is what happens...

 

I thought about responding to a couple posts that got my panties bunched but I don't care enough.

 

J.S. Bach was viewed by many of his contemporaries as a mindless wanker. His music got pretty polar reactions.

 

Would modern music be significantly differnt if Bach was erased from history? Definitely. If somebody had pushed his destructo button, would some other "genious" have stepped up at some point to fill the gap? Possibly. If he had never existed, would we know the difference? No.

 

Occationally I hear a DT song and kinda dig it but I would guess that that wouldn't be the case with the majority of their work.

 

Push the button.

[Nicklab]

 

J.S. Bach was viewed by many of his contemporaries as a mindless wanker. His music got pretty polar reactions.

 

Would modern music be significantly differnt if Bach was erased from history? Definitely. If somebody had pushed his destructo button, would some other "genious" have stepped up at some point to fill the gap? Possibly. If he had never existed, would we know the difference? No.

 

I loved me some Gregorian chanting! It was da bomb before Bach came along and mucked it all up!

[EddiePlaysBass]

Most of those who are defending DT make reference to their technical skills, but very few have said that they have written some good songs.

 

For me the song comes first...if a band can't write good songs then I have very little interest, regardless of their technical prowess.

 

That is WAY too subjective to be used as an argument. How many people love Nickelback ? Reality check, in Nickelback's case it's definitely not because of their technical skills.

 

Whilst I won't defend their entire body of work (as an album Falling Into Infinity sucks, and so does Octavarium [entire album] and most of their new album as well - but the songs work live) their first three albums are classic in my book, and "Metropolis Pt.2" is the rock opera Pete Townsend never managed to write.

[Brocko777]

I like DT a lot. Technical, heavy, overboard, mellow and excessive. Live shows are great. You get to see players at the top of their game.

I had seen them in Boston at the Music Tent/Pavilion a few years back and they performed "Learning to Live" basically @ double time due to outdoor time curfews. They were laughing and having a great time. It was pretty damn near perfect with a few flaws that they pointed out with facial expressions and gestures.

This is a large reason why I like them. They are real.

They mix up set lists every show. They'll throw in a cover.

Wankering? Yeah maybe, but lets defend TV, video games and the computer or 'www'. More aimless wankin' than most will admit.

It would be like myself saying;

"Vanilla ice cream really has no merit. It's boring and not really a good tasting concoction. Its been around forever but there is no reason for it to really exist." Push that button.

There are more bands out there that need to be SHOVED to the front of the button pushing line other than DT IMO.

Let me have my little slice of sunshine.

Brocko

 

oh BTW I am listening to Mingo Fishtrap right now.... why wouldn't TOP have these guys on their tour or bill?? That is a discussion... and a new topic.

 

[Juancarlin]

Would modern music be significantly differnt if Bach was erased from history? Definitely. If somebody had pushed his destructo button...

 

I've thought better. Do not push the button. Point your wand towards them and scream "Crucio".

 

Last nite I saw again a Bongo. A Blue one. The store was closed so I had no chance to get closer, or (May the Gods forgive me) play it. I still dislike it with passion. I guess that is what it is expected to provoke. I've felt awkward about certain instruments in the past, but this is different. For an instance, I've always felt worried that those thin, drippy horns from a Pedulla Buzz would break with heavy use, or that I would get hurt by the pointy button (!!) end on an Atlansia, or some Alembics (That's why I prefer standard round-or-flattened bottom, or even better, omega heart shape ). Not to mention BC RIches. But the Bongo really gives me the creeps. I'd keep pushing the button, just for that, oh sadistic me

[DavidMPires]

I'm listening to "Take Away my Pain" from Falling into Infinity, and can't hear the wankery you speak off, just a lovely song well written with great drums and a nice bass line.

[The Bear Jew]

Wow... seriously guys?

 

Five pages? Does this topic really warrant this much discussion? I would think you'd all know better... especially coming from me. This should have dissolved into a "you're a..." and "bite me" thread about three pages ago.

 

I'm pushing the button on you.

[DavidMPires]

not too late...

 

You are a button pusher....

 

http://th00.deviantart.net/fs28/300W/f/2008/117/c/6/DON__T_PUSH_THE_BUTTON_by_Muu_cow.jpg

[rizzo9247]

I get the ridiculousness of DT sometimes, and I like it. No one here mentioned the covers of entire albums they have unexpectedly performed at past shows (Master of Puppets, Number of the Beast, Dark Side of the Moon, Made in Japan), and they have fun up there doing it.

 

Last nite I saw again a Bongo. A Blue one. The store was closed so I had no chance to get closer, or (May the Gods forgive me) play it. I still dislike it with passion. I guess that is what it is expected to provoke.

I understand what you mean, but just play it man, it has Tone with a capital T. You may not buy it, or even like the look of it for that matter, but set it flat and enjoy

 

[BluMunk]

Not sure where the massive hate is coming from for Dream Theater.

 

I like them well enough. I own two albums, and they both get listened to on occasion. Awake has some great songs on it, but the other half of the album is boring. The track Voices is one of my all-time favorite, and the guitar solo in that song is as musical and awesome as anything. On my short list for best guitar solo that fits the song its in.

 

The lead vocalist's voice does get to me after a while; I get tired of hearing that loud belted tenor sound over and over in every song.

[moot]

 

Don't push the button

[Griffinator]

Most of those who are defending DT make reference to their technical skills, but very few have said that they have written some good songs.

 

For me the song comes first...if a band can't write good songs then I have very little interest, regardless of their technical prowess.

 

Great Dream Theater songs:

 

[video:youtube]

 

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYINsc2QKiY

 

I'd list more, but it's moot unless you actually dig these first, because then it becomes a taste issue.