Who can say something positive about the s90xs and s70xs?

[Gas In The Air]

All I read about are people returning their S90xs. The snintey forum is full of people complaining massively about the new S6 Piano sound. Did Yamaha screw it up this time?

 

I remember I was so excited when the S90xs was announced. I was waiting a long time for Yamaha's new stage keyboard. Then I saw the display.... Then I recognized the size...

 

As many of you I am tending more towards a used S90es or even a RD700gx. May be I wait for the new Yamaha stage pianos if they ever come out. It seems quite a long time ago Yamaha introduced them. My dealer says though there is nothing in the pipeline.

 

Andi

[Aidan]

Andi, there are I think at least three people on this forum who have bought either a 70 or 90XS and seem perfectly happy with it.

 

I haven't had a chance to try it myself in person yet but that's exactly what you should be seeking to do if you're thinking of buying. Piano sounds are very personal.

 

That said, there does seem to be quite a swell of backlash against the new models over on sninety.com...

 

Although I love my GX, bear in mind you're comparing apples to oranges there, as really the Roland is just a stage piano/controller with a few added sounds which are useful in layers but generally not too inspiring on their own. For most other things I prefer the Motif soundset, hence my use of the GX with a Motif XS rack.

[DanS]

Oh pick me, pick me!

 

Yes, the display is too small, yes, it's too big and bulky for a 76 note controller. The S6 piano has a cluster of about 3-4 notes below middle C that sound phasey & boxey. Some people say that this piano is "completely unusable", which I think is complete bullshit. It may not be all things to all people, but it is definitely usable. It's not marketed as a digital piano anyway, it's a "performance synthesizer" that has a weighted action, and piano sounds, among many others.

 

It integrates very well into Cubase (and a few other DAWS), and can be used as a midi controller for a lot of softsynths as well.

Creating layers & splits is fast and intuitive, and the arpeggiators (6700) are incredible.

 

I'm keeping mine. I'm hoping Yamaha will get around to a firmware update for the S6 eventually, but in the meantime, it's not going to stop me from doing everything I need it to do.

[Aidan]

There you go, Andi!

 

Actually, I do think the problem Dan describes would bother me, as I play a lot in that tenor region of the piano - it's one of the reasons I couldn't get on with the Nord Stage, which just didn't "sing" in that area of the AP sample. And to be fair, Yamaha do make a big deal of the huge piano sample, albeit it's not a digital piano per se.

 

But then again, how much it bothers you may also hugely depend on what kind of music you're playing. If you're rocking out in a medium-large band, you're probably not even going to notice it half the time.

 

If, on the other hand, you play mostly solo piano or jazz trio stuff, it might begin to get on your nerves.

 

Again, it goes back to try and decide, I'm afraid.

 

 

[Gas In The Air]

Aidan, I fully agree things are very personal. But there are also things a lot of people seem to like. For instance the S90es piano. This sound is not perfect either, it sounds pretty nasal in the upper range especially if you play ff. However, there are so many good reviews and feedback. The same with RD700gx. Not perfect, but there are a lot of fans. What hits me with the S90xs is that there more negative critics than positive out there. Very unusual for a brand new instrument. People tend to be excited when something new comes out and do not bash it right away.

 

Have you guys heard anything about new CP pianos from Yamaha? Its been a while. Have you ever considered a CP300 for yourself?

 

[DanS]

Aid For instance the S90es piano. This sound is not perfect either, it sounds pretty nasal in the upper range especially if you play ff.

 

It seems to be the opposite with the S6, it shines in the upper registers, and comes close to the beauty of some of my Giga piano libraries in that regard.

I haven't checked out the CP series, I lost interest when I found out the weight.

The weight drop from my S80 to the S70XS is 10lbs, not huge, but I can carry it with one arm now.

[Aidan]

I've played the CP300 and like it a lot (though not as much as the GX) but like Dan says, the weight alone means it's not a proposition for me. God knows, the GX seems heavy enough some days...

[Tusker]

What hits me with the S90xs is that there more negative critics than positive out there. Very unusual for a brand new instrument.

 

I don't think it's unusual at all ... especially for "niche" instruments. Lots of good instruments have been maligned upon arrival (Andromeda, V-Synth GT, Oasys, Nord Wave, etc.) only to recover their reputations later.

 

When the pre-release buzz is significant and people have been looking forward to a certain precise (niche) form and function ... any deviation from expectations is punished loudly in my experience. The S90XS is in good company. While it is not as niche as some of the other "punished" instruments, it represents a change in the S series platform.

 

I chose to stay with my S90ES because I like a breath control input and a platform for the VL plug-in I love. However I have played the S90XS and its a formidable live synthesizer. Just expect some people to punish it for what it's not, instead of loving it for what it is.

 

Jerry

[Meisenhower]

I've played the CP300 and like it a lot (though not as much as the GX) but like Dan says, the weight alone means it's not a proposition for me. God knows, the GX seems heavy enough some days...

 

I liked the CP300, but didn't want all the bulk and also didn't need all of the additional controller features, so I bought the CP33. At 40 lbs, it's a dandy stage piano with sounds and an action I like.

 

YMMV.

[David Loving]

I am honin' in on a CP300 after the 1st of the year and I recover from Xmas. I like the piano and the action so much I don't worry about the weight. Maybe I can make that part of a fitness program...

[Joe Muscara]

When the RD-700GX finally started showing up, the same thing happened. You would have thought no one liked it. In fact, I bought mine slightly used. Now, I only see people who like it.

[ADino]

I did some demo work on one of these for a local music store. At first I wasnt crazy about it, but after I played it for awhile, laid down some tracks, I got used to it quickly. THe piano sound doesnt come out and grab you, as they do on the GX..The action at 1st touch wasnt there, but surprisingly, after playing awhile, it felt ok. As mentioned, this is not a DP, so I feel it unfair to compare it to the GX, but for what it is, and for whatever your purposes may be, its a good board imho. Its a WS isnt it? So I would compare it to say..the M50-88..in that respect, it has better action, useful features and a better piano sound..the M50 does better in the bread n butter sounds.

Again all subjective. Seems like a very good ws.

[DanS]

Its a WS isnt it?

 

Nope, it does do sequence playback via USB key.

Again, it's more performance oriented.

[eric]

My official review will be published in the Jan 2010 issue, so I won't steal my thunder here. I found a lot to like in the S70XS (plus some things I would have done differently if I was Yamaha). It's a cool instrument and fairly unique when you really think about it (particularly the S70XS).

 

Regards,

Eric

[Mogut]

Its a WS isnt it?

Not quite the features of a workstation.

 

edit:whoops someone already covered this... sorry

[Dave Ferris]

I am honin' in on a CP300 after the 1st of the year and I recover from Xmas. I like the piano and the action so much I don't worry about the weight. Maybe I can make that part of a fitness program...

 

I only go once , maybe twice a week at most, but if I miss a week or two at the gym, my CP300 feels like the "Rock of Gibraltar"---almost unmovable. Otherwise it is doable (I have a very good dolly) has long has there aren't any massive steps. In any case, at 56 it isn't easy, you have to pay attention to every move you make with the beast.

 

I much prefer the 300, piano to piano, to the new S90Xs. I'd been anxiously waiting for years, owning the S90 Classic, for the arrival of the new one. Has I posted before, the 90XS AP was a huge disappointment to me, it sounded very phasey in the lower registers--I thought the chorus button was on. For a lightweight alternative to the CP300 and replacement to my P120, I'll check out the Korg SV-1.

[Floyd Tatum]

For a lightweight alternative to the CP300 and replacement to my P120, I'll check out the Korg SV-1.

 

Dave, the SV-1 is 45 lbs, I just checked. Just thought you'd want to know. For me, that rules it out as a gigging dp. For me, 40 lbs is my upper limit, and I'm seaching for something substantially lighter than that, if possible, to gig with.

 

[Dave Ferris]

 

Have you guys heard anything about new CP pianos from Yamaha? Its been a while. Have you ever considered a CP300 for yourself?

 

I don't recall having ever seen a new release of their stage piano at NAMM, maybe this year will surprise me...

 

Seems like they always release them in early spring or summer. Not sure exactly when this current generation of CPs were released, it seems like more than a few years ago. My 300 is about a year and a half old and I vacillated for over a year before finally pulling the trigger on mine. Between the 700GX and the 300, I feel those are two best (not lightest) options out there for more serious pianists.

[Dave Ferris]

Dave, the SV-1 is 45 lbs, I just checked. Just thought you'd want to know.

 

Richard, is that the 88 or 73 version?

 

I thought the 73 was just under 40 lbs.-- maybe I had that wrong. In any case it would to be has light or lighter than my P120 and sound better has well.

[Mogut]

my CP300 feels like the "Rock of Gibraltar"---almost unmovable.

Seems like its keyboard manufacturers edict to make flagship DP's heavy. V-piano for example is 80lbs

[Floyd Tatum]

Richard, is that the 88 or 73 version?

 

I thought the 73 was just under 40 lbs.-- maybe I had that wrong. In any case it would to be has light or lighter than my P120 and sound better has well.

That's the 88-key version, which is what I assumed you would want, as a pianist. As for it sounding better than P120 (which is what I gig with also), I'll reserve judgment on that until I can try it out in person.

 

[Dave Ferris]

Yeah, I'd prefer the 88 but at this point in my life, that lighter weight is very appealing. I do a lot of in & out/wallpaper gigs where I can get by with the 73.

For something more important I can always bring the 300 or better yet, play the real thing ...hopefully.

 

I stopped in the Sam Ash in Canoga Park yesterday to try the SV-1 out. They didn't have it yet but she said the Hollywood store has a few in stock. I need to get down there to check them out.

[Aidan]

The GX is heavy at 25kg/55lb but I find it manageable in a wheeled case and its relatively slim design makes it fairly easy to move on and off stands and even into another room, held "shotgun" style.

 

The CP is a full 7.5kg/16lb heavier and is also somewhat deeper in form.

[Floyd Tatum]

Yeah, I'd prefer the 88 but at this point in my life, that lighter weight is very appealing. I do a lot of in-out/wallpaper gigs where I can get by with the 73.

For something more important I can always bring the 300 or better yet, play the real thing ...hopefully.

Well, if it's just a case of getting by, why not get by with a lighter 88-key, like a Casio PX330, or a Roland FP4? That's where I'm headed, I think. I've got a PX330 on order, if I don't like it, I think I'll get either an FP4 or a CP33, haven't quite decided yet.

 

[Aidan]

I'll be interested to see what you make of the Casio, Floyd. I've tried very much to like the ones I've tried out in shops but always failed.

 

I've had both an FP4 and a CP33: of those, the one I'd return to if I needed to would be the Yamaha I just couldn't get on with the Roland's very light and somewhat spongy action.

[Dave Ferris]

Casio is a possibilty. My first impressions were that it wasn't head and shoulders sound wise above the P120...it was certainly lighter. The same with the CP33, defintley a little more refined, maybe cleaner sounding sample but not enough to warrant going through the hassle of selling the P120 to replace it. The FP-4, I like the Superior Grand sound but like Aidan, I can't get pass the action on it.

[Floyd Tatum]

I know what you mean. That's why I'm still using the P120 - none of the replacement options (that meet my criteria for weight, sound, and feel) are particularly inspiring.

[drawback]

I've had both an FP4 and a CP33: of those, the one I'd return to if I needed to would be the Yamaha I just couldn't get on with the Roland's very light and somewhat spongy action.

 

??

 

I sold my 700GX and went back to Yamaha - because I couldn't stand Roland's light and shallow action!

[Gas In The Air]

I actually owned both the P120 and the CP33. I must say that I liked the P120 better. The CP33 was a bit too bright for my taste. Changing the EQ or velocity didn't help much. Overall I like the Yamahas better than Roland. Somehow the keyboard/sound connection works better for me. That's why I am looking forward to see upgraded replacements of the CP series.

[Mogut]

I still don't see anyone saying anything positive about the new XS S90's. A lot of CP love though.