richwhite9 Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 It's human nature and the lawyers have the upperhand. In the 50s it was management or record companies that screwed the young teen artists. Lawyer Allen Klein turned litigation in the music business into an artform. Klein accquired music catalogs expressly so he could sue. His acquisition of "He's So Fine" was the ultimate screw and a glimpse into what really goes on inside a lawyer's head. Then there was his lawsuit against the Verve for 'quoting' in the riff to "Bittersuit Symphony" which I understand garnered the writers (Jagger/Richards) nothing as Klein owned the rights. Please, no defense of lawyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrdman Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Garret was actually running for PM when I was there. However, Nuclear Disarmament by itself wasn't much of a platform, and he lost. He was great in concert anyway. Saw him at Byron Bay. You don't run for PM. Who the PM will be is decided by the party that forms a government and they can kick him out at any time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real MC Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 The publisher bought the copyright and waited ten years before suing for (a great stretch of, this) infringement? When a US company does this with a patent, it is refered to as a "submarine" patent. They keep the patent under wraps until an unsuspecting product catches on and earns big profits. The patent holder waits for years until the opportune moment then they surface with an infringement lawsuit and demand retroactive royalties. Such companies often manufacture nothing and provide no service whatsoever - they only use patent infringement as a revenue generator. They are known as "patent trolls" and the US Supreme Court has made their disapproval of their tactics public. The worse example was Rambus. They patented the memory technology for computers. When they attended a JEDEC conference to establish an industry standard for memory systems in personal computers, Rambus submitted their proposal but intentionally withheld any patent information. Their proposal became standard, then as it was adopted they sued all the manufacturers for infringement. Rambus has earned the scorn of the industry for their tactics. Allen Klein is the start of a disturbing trend of "copyright trolls", and this recent lawsuit is a continuation of that. It got bad when Girl Scouts had to stop singing certain campfire songs when they were threatened with infringement. That was absurd to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JpScoey Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 The publisher bought the copyright and waited ten years before suing for (a great stretch of, this) infringement? The stupid thing about this case is that the publisher had NO IDEA an 'infringement' existed, until it was jokingly pointed out on an Australian light-hearted consumer/magazine-type TV show. It was presented in the style of 'hey guys check this out - doesn't this bit of Down Under sound a bit like the Kookaburra Song' ha ha etc. Then, of course, the vultures that are otherwise known as lawyers started circling. The rest is history..... John. some stuff on myspace Nord: StageEX-88, Electro2-73, Hammond: XK-1, Yamaha: XS7 Korg: M3-73 EXpanded, M50-88, X50, Roland: Juno D, Kurzweil: K2000vp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUSSIEKEYS Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 man it's certainly made Kookaburras well known all round the world... they are so sought after now in restaurants here in Australia. Its only the elite who can afford to eat them, where as before all this happened you could get them at any corner Hamburger shop.... as a Kookaburger.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Loving Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Are they fighting over that flute riff at the beginning of the song? That's ridiculous!!! I'm thinkin' this is why they have appellate courts. They do have appellate courts in Australia don't they? "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Julien Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 great thread! Just to address quickly the main issues: 1. Yes bad decision by the court 2. +1 for the Oils - good example of oz music (as if there is such a thing;) 3. Other good Oz acts not mentioned but who I think will be more appreciated as time goes on - Triffids, Go-Betweens, Nick Cave and to a lesser degree Hoodoo Gurus, Hunters and Collectors. 4. the Oils did indeed have a strong connection to Turramurra Music - my ex bandmate had lessons from Jim Moginie and Martin Rotsey was giving lessons in the next room! Not masterclasses or anything, just standard guitar lessons. I guess this must have been earlier in the band career. 5. Not a big fan of the vegemite myself. The trick is to have a thin spread only - not like peanut butter. I like to move it, move it (except The Wurly which can be a bit temperamental and the 122 for obvious reasons) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B3bluesman59 Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 This is from the buzzgrinder.com site dated 2-5-2010. The latest court decision goes against MAW: ________________________________________________________________ Poor Men at Work. They cant even afford their vegemite sandwiches anymore, thanks to a ruling that the flute riff from their hit Down Under was lifted from a song written for Australian girl scouts. A publishing company owning the rights to the original song is looking to get up to 60 percent of the profits from Men at Works ode to being a descendant of criminals and the mentally feeble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUSSIEKEYS Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Men at Works ode to being a descendant of criminals and the mentally feeble. oh no...our secret is out....... and we were so proud when we could actually say we had "men at work".... that meant another 5 guys off the dole... Australia had come of age....[Aussiekeys says with chest puffed out and an air of proudness] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b3keys Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 SYDNEY A judge ordered Australian band Men at Work on Tuesday to hand over a portion of the royalties from their 1980s hit "Down Under," after previously ruling its distinctive flute riff was copied from a children's campfire song. But the penalty 5 percent of the song's royalties was far less than the 60 percent sought by publishing company Larrikin Music, which holds the copyright for the song "Kookaburra Sits in the Old Gum Tree." "Kookaburra" was written more than 70 years ago by Australian teacher Marion Sinclair for a Girl Guides competition, and the song about the native Australian bird has been a favorite around campfires from New Zealand to Canada. Sinclair died in 1988, but Larrikin filed a copyright lawsuit last year. In February, Federal Court Justice Peter Jacobson ruled Men at Work had copied their song's signature flute melody from "Kookaburra." On Tuesday, Jacobson ordered Men at Work's recording company, EMI Songs Australia, and "Down Under" songwriters Colin Hay and Ron Strykert, to pay 5 percent of royalties earned from the song since 2002 and from its future earnings. A statute of limitations restricted Larrikin from seeking royalties earned before 2002. The court didn't specify what the 5 percent penalty translates to in dollars. "I consider the figures put forward by Larrikin to be excessive, overreaching and unrealistic," Jacobson wrote in his judgment. Mark Bamford, a lawyer for EMI, said the company plans to continue with its appeal of the February ruling. "The ruling today on quantum is a good result in light of Larrikin's 'excessive, overreaching and unrealistic' claim" for a higher cut of the profits, Bamford said in a statement. "EMI Songs will now focus on its appeal against the broader decision." Adam Simpson, Larrikin Music's lawyer, said the company had no comment on the ruling, due to the pending appeal. Hay and Strykert were not in court for the decision and couldn't immediately be reached. "Down Under" and the album it was on, "Business As Usual," topped the Australian, American and British charts in early 1983. The song remains an unofficial anthem for Australia and was ranked fourth in a 2001 music industry survey of the best Australian songs. Men at Work won the 1983 Grammy Award for Best New Artist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffLearman Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Thanks for the update! I was confident/hopeful that the award would be small. I think this is still more than they merit, but it's not unreasonable. I wonder if that's only going forward -- I hope it's not retroactive! BTW, when I was in Aus in 1986, anyone who mentioned that song dissed it, saying it wasn't representative of Aussie music. IMHO it was a lot better than what they offered as representative, which was just tired old heavy metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT156 Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 B3 keys posted that it is retroactive from 2002. Mike T. Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffLearman Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 doh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b3keys Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Well, at least the settlement doesn't pre-date 2002. I'm sure most of the $$$ made on the song occurred in the 80s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUSSIEKEYS Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 damn...someone should knock that smartalec KOOKABURRA out of that stink'n GUMTREE. mmmmmmm.......very nice as a kookaburger....yummmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT156 Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 Well, at least the settlement doesn't pre-date 2002. I'm sure most of the $$$ made on the song occurred in the 80s. From what the article said, its still played quite a bit in Aussie Land. Its kinda Australia's theme song. I still hear it played on American radio. Mike T. Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUSSIEKEYS Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 Well, at least the settlement doesn't pre-date 2002. I'm sure most of the $$$ made on the song occurred in the 80s. From what the article said, its still played quite a bit in Aussie Land. Its kinda Australia's theme song. I still hear it played on American radio. Mike T. yea but ironically not as much as you may imagine...generally its on the vintage radio channels as a full song, and you may get as a catch phrase at an Aussie event or Australia day, but its not as much as you may have been told..although obviously it has more chance for Aussie events than any other..except Advance Australia fair, or maybe Waltzing Matilda. infact if it wasnt for this damn grab for money it still would be just vintage radio.. I like the song a lot and the band, and love a lot of their other songs, yet I believe their fame lives or dies with this song for many...indeed their other songs are rather more indicative of them as a band and Australia.. still its a fun song, and does not deserve to be "money grabbed" for a small homage to early Australia...man how many jazz songs are gonn'a be "money grabbed" for their little homages to the past.. this is really not part of the "fair go" Australia was once famous for... it's now,,,get in and take em' for what you can get my best to Men At Work...and the loss of the Great Aussie Fair Go.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 I think this was predicated by Matt Fisher's successful suit against Gary Brooker and Keith Reid. A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT156 Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 by aussiekeys: I like the song a lot and the band, and love a lot of their other songs, yet I believe their fame lives or dies with this song for many...indeed their other songs are rather more indicative of them as a band and Australia.. People have short attention spans. Men at work had a unique sound as well as some great songs. I also like "Overkill", "It's a mistake" and the lesser known "I can see it in your eyes". Australia as well as New Zealand brought more good groups and singers to the International Music Scene like one of my very favorites, The Little River Band. Let's not forget Air Supply (or maybe we should), Rick Springfield, and Olivia Newton John (well maybe she's a stretch too). There were others in the "New Wave" era too. Whether we like their songs or not, they received recognition and had an impact on modern music. Cheers, Mike T. Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Beaumont Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 Keith Urban's got some pretty good guitar chops. Boards: Kurzweil SP-6, Roland FA-08, VR-09, DeepMind 12 Modules: Korg Radias, Roland D-05, Bk7-m & Sonic Cell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real MC Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 EMI will replace the offending hook in the song and re-release it for distribution to cut off the royalty obligation. Count on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUSSIEKEYS Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 EMI will replace the offending hook in the song and re-release it for distribution to cut off the royalty obligation. Count on it. man what a great idea....stick it to em... Ironically the company that has done this to men at work has a "very" Aussie name, derived from our cheeky knockabout aussie types.. the origin of this word the company uses as a name symbalises the Paul Hogan style, knock about, cheeky but lovable Aussie type, especially if you saw him in the mini series Gallipoli, I feel sorry that an Aussie company would swoop on another Aussie company/band in such a way. Why cant we still be that fair go country? Our innocence is lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 I feel sorry that an Aussie company would swoop on another Aussie company/band in such a way. Why cant we still be that fair go country? Our innocence is lost. Anyone know if that company was the original publisher of this children's song? My suspicion is that they bought the rights very quietly from whoever originally published it, hoping that they'd be able to profit from the lawsuit. I mean, 27 years later, they finally realize that the riff was "ripped"? Somehow I doubt it. It just became financially viable (or so they thought) post the Matt Fisher v Brooker/Reid fiasco in Britain. A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUSSIEKEYS Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 aquired it in recent years..i believe the original songwriter was apparently happy to let people use it as it was a girl guides song i believe... and I also believe that the owners of the company are not the original owners of the company, [the above was gleaned via different internet sites whether true or false?, so I have no personal knowledge of this] worth a google around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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