Mac vs PC

[Bridog6996]

Somewhat unrelated to the discussion, but worth mentioning: A large percentage of consumers don't really even know what they're buying when it comes to computers. The best thing you can do if want to buy a computer (or really any piece of technology) and don't know much about them is to go online and do some research. Find out how a processor works, what clock speed means, what RAM does, etc. I think the average person tends to think all that nerdy stuff would be way over their heads, but it's actually surprisingly simple (well, up to a point). Even just learning the very basics about computer components will give you an idea what to look for in your computer search. You don't want to be left to the sharks (salespeople).

 

Just something to think about for anyone who might fall into that category.

[steadyb]

I missed the beginning of this thread, so... what's everyone saying? "Just get a Mac", right?

 

Makes perfect sense.

[Fusker]

I found a PC package with a 28 inch monitor for half the cost of a comparable Mac w/o a monitor. But hey, get what you're comfortable with.

 

After my IPhone experience, I am completely willing (or was until I revisited the topic) to drink the Mac Kool Aide if the price is like, 20% more...but at well over double the cost for a non-third party environment, never going to happen.

 

But again, if Mac makes someone happy, I'm not going to try to convert them.

[MonksDream]

The acquisition price of a PC is commonly accepted to be 1/3rd of the total cost of ownership. Some of the other costs are system maintenance, software cost, training, and the temporary loss of productivity that accompanies any system implementation as the users adjust to the new workflow. Once you factor in those differences over the lifetime of a computer (3 - 5 years is industry standard) the Mac may cost more but I doubt it's twice the cost of the Windows equivalent.

Here nor there, if you are a home user looking for a good value on a machine on which to record and edit your audio. In either case, you need to learn to use the software, and maintain the machine, so that is pretty much a wash no matter which system you choose.

The main differences between a home and business user are that the home user gets none of the financial advantages (depreciation for instance), often has fewer options for system support, and usually keeps the machine in use longer. One spends more time futzing with Windows machines which IMO reduces the cost differences between them and Macs over the life of the machine.

 

Where the rubber mets the road is in the software that you choose, and there are so many choices that ALL DO A GOOD JOB. Each has its strengths and weaknesses, and everybody has their preferred pick. Truth be told, NONE is the be all and end all of audio editing, which is why there are so many viable choices.

Spot on! I absolutely agree with you.

[wmp]

Sure, I'll dish up a little more .

 

Got both. Hate both with a passion.

 

Anybody want the long version? :deadhorse:

 

Didn't think so.

 

 

[Markyboard]

I just find a PC less clunky to work with.

http://www.altomusic.com/altoweb/images/products/400/4002/pc3x.jpg

[Bridog6996]

One spends more time futzing with Windows machines which IMO reduces the cost differences between them and Macs over the life of the machine.

 

I don't agree with that at all in that I don't see the correlation between time spent futzing and the particular OS you're using. Maybe if you're used to OSX you'd have to spend some time fiddling with Windows to get used to the way Microsoft does things, but the reverse is true also. I don't find Macs to be any more futz-free than PCs.

 

BTW, really the only annoying difference I find between Apple and the PC standard has nothing to do with the OS at all, although I suppose it's related in a roundabout way. It's that damned one-button mouse that Apple uses. The left and right click of PCs is so handy! Whenever I switch over to a Mac that's the one thing that trips me up every time. Kinda like when you're walking down the stairs in the dark and you think there's that one extra step. Other than that, I've never found a notable difference between the two beyond software compatibility. You wanna talk about the value of saving time over the lifetime of the computer, though...that left click is money in the bank in favor of PCs.

 

 

[kanker.]

BTW, really the only annoying difference I find between Apple and the PC standard has nothing to do with the OS at all, although I suppose it's related in a roundabout way. It's that damned one-button mouse that Apple uses. The left and right click of PCs is so handy! Whenever I switch over to a Mac that's the one thing that trips me up every time. Kinda like when you're walking down the stairs in the dark and you think there's that one extra step. Other than that, I've never found a notable difference between the two beyond software compatibility. You wanna talk about the value of saving time over the lifetime of the computer, though...that left click is money in the bank in favor of PCs.

 

Dude, Apple has supported multi-button mouse stuff for years, and has had a two button mouse in production for about 5. The latest version of Logic makes more use of contextual menus than any Apple product I've ever seen.

[Joe Muscara]

Every Mac mouse sold in the past few years supports right-click. But, just to stick it to people who complain about it, Apple invented the "no-button" mouse.

 

I used Windoze for years and didn't understand the appeal of Macs. I switched to Macs at the worst possible time, around '95 or '96. Now, every time I try to do something more than the most basic thing on the PC, it takes me forever to find it.

 

I think Apple Stores help Apple move a lot of hardware, since it's quite easy to walk in and have someone show you the computer and get you started. Also, the Genius Bar rocks, because they can help you with your questions, or repair your hardware under warranty and all that.

 

Apple does seem to be doing a pretty good job selling iPods and iPhones to Windoze users. The whole experience is not bad, from what I hear, and is a pretty good trojan horse as some posters have implied above.

 

Macs come with great software built in (iLife). GarageBand is Logic lite, and it comes with every new Mac. iMovie is Final Cut lite, and that combined with iDVD lets you make your own. PCs took a while to catch on to including that kind of software, but I don't think there's any free audio recording studio software that comes on PCs at the level of GB.

 

Then there's the great deal that is Logic Studio. I think the current version comes with six Jam Packs (instruments and loops packages), Logic Pro, MainStage, WaveBurner, Soundtrack Pro, and a couple of other things, and Logic Pro includes all that stuff that used to be sold separately when it was Emagic like the sampler and various instruments. All for $499 or less.

[Griffinator]

I would not just go an buy any off the shelf PC

 

Could have ended the sentence right there and it would have made just as much sense.

 

Get a specialist to build you one, or even one of these little internet parts peddlers to do it. Either way, you'll get much more bang for your buck than the off-the-shelf nightmares from E-Machines, HP, etc.

[timwat]

If this thread goes to 13 pages like the SV-1 thread, at least it will be for two products that have already hit the market.

[RABid]

If using a laptop I would go with Mac. If using a desktop I would recommend WinPC. MacMini's and IMacs suffer from small HD's and few options for expansion. MacPro is great, but you pay for it. I have a MacPro and a WinXP machine I built myself. The MacPro is easier to expand but the Win machine was much cheaper. Do go too cheap on Windows PC's. I've seen a few that have the HD cage welded in so that HD's and processors cannot be upgraded.

 

Best machine - MacPro

Most bang for the buck - A Win box.

What to avoid - Really cheap windows machines and any Mac that you cannot upgrade the HD or memory yourself.

[synthdogg]

"Mac vs. PC"

 

 

Seriously?

[richwhite9]

I wouldn't run SQL Server or Oracle on a Mac.

 

I wouldn't run Visual Studio or Eclipse or Oracle Developer on a Mac.

 

I wouldn't run Macs in a business with heavy Office/Exchange/Sharepoint users and an Active Directory Network unless I have to. Macs usually lag PCs in Office features and introduce another hardware platform that requires user training.

 

I wouldn't run Macs when a Netbook or Phone App is sufficient (for browsing, email, light word precessing/blogs, and MP3 playing).

 

I wouldn't run Macs and call it a state-of-the-art gaming computer.

 

Elegant but overpriced for many general users. The recent OS history speaks for itself. Many unhappy campers with the new QC standards borrowed from Windows: let the user base test it.

 

For musicians--a great option. For the general public? It's like throwing pearls before swine.

 

 

[kanker.]

Macs usually lag PCs in Office features

I can't speak to some of your assertions, but this one is just plain wrong. Both platforms lag the other. They have separate development teams, and each team is free to add new ideas and processes, and it's up to the other team to incorporate them for compatibility. Office is unique at MS in that it is a Mac native app with a Mac specific dev team, and was in fact a Mac only app for quite some time before it became a PC app.

[Mark Schmieder]

Yep, the Mac chose me vs. the other way around. I had never used a Mac before I bought one, so it was a risky move, and I got almost nothing done the first six months as I was swimming in a sea of confusion and had no help from peers (with no internet access I couldn't even Google for help).

 

I had to learn OS 9 and OS X simultaneously, as most audio apps weren't ready for OS X yet. More often than not, my only recourse to a problem was to unplug the computer from the wall while it was still on.

 

I was so cursing my decision that first year! It reminded me of the struggles I had with the Apple II in 1980-1981 at my first computer job, when my finger kept slipping and hitting the power reset button that was adjacent the carriage return (duh!).

 

So yes, let the DAW that you like best (in my case it was Digital Performer) choose the platform for you, rather than the other way around, but if it is a platform that you have never been exposed to before, make sure you have help at hand -- though even the 64-bit and Snow Leopard transition, and the equivalent transition on Windows, is unlikely to be as volatile as the transitions seven to eight years ago.

[Mark Schmieder]

I like Markyboard's response the best. :-)

[ADino]

I think if you got one of the PC workstations that SW put together/sell, you'd be ok...me? I cant imagine a pc doing as many tracks as I do on a mac..but I'll bet there are many that do..

 

The 1 thing I dont like is like right now..Im making a jump from G5 to intel mac and upgrading my plugs..getting simple, straightforward SW directions..seeing if certain upgrades address the switch...correctly...but I think you go thru that no matter what system you choose...I use macs, but on the other hand I put together my sons PT rig, n he uses PC..seems to work ok..

[Mark Schmieder]

If you're going for a PC, look into Rain Recording, as they do a great job of giving bang-for-buck in the areas that matter most to musicians. Periodically they have sales/specials as well.

 

If I was going to get a PC vs. another Mac to replace my aging 8.5 year old iMac, I would definitely look at Rain first. They have so many ports on theirs, each with a dedicated bus.

[Bridog6996]

BTW, really the only annoying difference I find between Apple and the PC standard has nothing to do with the OS at all, although I suppose it's related in a roundabout way. It's that damned one-button mouse that Apple uses. The left and right click of PCs is so handy! Whenever I switch over to a Mac that's the one thing that trips me up every time. Kinda like when you're walking down the stairs in the dark and you think there's that one extra step. Other than that, I've never found a notable difference between the two beyond software compatibility. You wanna talk about the value of saving time over the lifetime of the computer, though...that left click is money in the bank in favor of PCs.

 

Dude, Apple has supported multi-button mouse stuff for years, and has had a two button mouse in production for about 5. The latest version of Logic makes more use of contextual menus than any Apple product I've ever seen.

 

Yeah, I was only half-serious. I know Mac supports the multi-button mouse, but it's not "default." For example, when you buy a Macbook, the integrated mouse is the typical Mac one-button variety.

[Bridog6996]

I cant imagine a pc doing as many tracks as I do on a mac..but I'll bet there are many that do..

 

I don't see how you come to that conclusion. The performance of a computer, especially the number of tracks you can use in a DAW, is dependent on its hardware. A PC with the same processor, RAM, and hard drive speed will perform equally as well as its Mac counterpart. There's nothing about Macs that make them somehow inherently perform better.

[Bridog6996]

If you're going for a PC, look into Rain Recording, as they do a great job of giving bang-for-buck in the areas that matter most to musicians.

 

+1, those Rain systems are badASS. They make the only quad-core laptop that I'm aware of. If you can afford to buy a Macbook, use that $ to get a Rain Livebook instead.

[Geoff Grace]

BTW, really the only annoying difference I find between Apple and the PC standard has nothing to do with the OS at all, although I suppose it's related in a roundabout way. It's that damned one-button mouse that Apple uses. The left and right click of PCs is so handy! Whenever I switch over to a Mac that's the one thing that trips me up every time. Kinda like when you're walking down the stairs in the dark and you think there's that one extra step. Other than that, I've never found a notable difference between the two beyond software compatibility. You wanna talk about the value of saving time over the lifetime of the computer, though...that left click is money in the bank in favor of PCs.

 

Dude, Apple has supported multi-button mouse stuff for years, and has had a two button mouse in production for about 5. The latest version of Logic makes more use of contextual menus than any Apple product I've ever seen.

 

Yeah, I was only half-serious. I know Mac supports the multi-button mouse, but it's not "default." For example, when you buy a Macbook, the integrated mouse is the typical Mac one-button variety.

My Mac Pro came with a two button mouse by default. It's designed to look like a one button mouse, though, and you can set it that way if you wish.

 

http://homepage.mac.com/musicproduction/.Pictures/Mouse_Prefs.jpg

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[burningbusch]

AGAIN, of you are looking at a system for Protools go to Digidesign's site and VERIFY compatibility. For example, this is the hardware compatibility page for PT 8 under Windows XP WINDOWS XP COMPATIBILITY. Digi goes to great lengths to test and certify both platforms.

 

Also, PT does not yet fully support Snow Leopard on the Mac.

 

Busch.

[J. Dan]

AGAIN, of you are looking at a system for Protools go to Digidesign's site and VERIFY compatibility.

 

I'm not using protools at home (I'll use one of my buddies' systems when I need to), but I went and looked through their site from your link. I gotta say I'm REALLY impressed with how thorough their compatability information is. I wish everybody did that!!!

[Mark Schmieder]

Also, the new point release of PT 8 drops additional comaptibility on the Mac side (maybe Windows as well). I forget exactly what they dropped as already my system can't support PT8 so I lost interest at that point. But the info should be at their site.

[dementia13]

If using a laptop I would go with Mac. If using a desktop I would recommend WinPC. MacMini's and IMacs suffer from small HD's and few options for expansion. MacPro is great, but you pay for it. I have a MacPro and a WinXP machine I built myself. The MacPro is easier to expand but the Win machine was much cheaper. Do go too cheap on Windows PC's. I've seen a few that have the HD cage welded in so that HD's and processors cannot be upgraded.

 

Best machine - MacPro

Most bang for the buck - A Win box.

What to avoid - Really cheap windows machines and any Mac that you cannot upgrade the HD or memory yourself.

 

I'd second that, especially the part about laptops. I haven't used Windows 7 yet, it's supposedly a little easier on a machine, but Vista sucks hard on a laptop. It's great on a desktop, though. The Mac environment and laptops are like chocolate and peanut butter, two great tastes that taste great together. I'm using a PC as a music rig for the first time in 10 years, running Vista x64. It's come a long way from the 9x days. I'm still slaving it to an older Mac running Logic, but it's a great way of getting some relatively cheap muscle power. I've got a PC around that I used as a firewall/server, I'm thinking of turning that into a Hackintosh and using it as a Logic node.

[Bridog6996]

Windows XP is highly recommended over Vista, especially for a music rig. Everything is fully supported, and it uses less of your system's resources. Vista is a more memory-intensive OS. You can optimize XP even further to the point where it's practically non-existent in terms of the memory and processing power it requires. My studio laptop with stripped-down XP really smokes.

 

I haven't tried Windows 7 either, but because it's so new, it probably won't be worth using for a while until more software starts supporting it.

[kanker.]

Yeah, I was only half-serious. I know Mac supports the multi-button mouse, but it's not "default." For example, when you buy a Macbook, the integrated mouse is the typical Mac one-button variety.

The Macbook has a multi-touch trackpad.

[Dan South]

I tried a Mac because a collaborator used Opcode's Vision software and I wanted to use the same program. I'm a professional UNIX IT developer, so I'm about as command-line oriented as anyone on the planet, but something about my first little monochrome Mac really struck me. It just made sense to me, and I've been a Mac fan ever since.

 

The Mac does what I want it to do and never gets in my way. Whenever I work on a PC (i.e. all day long at my office), it's always a struggle. The layout is inconsistent and overly complicated. I couldn't imagine trying to make music on a Wintel platform and luckily I've never had to.

 

When OSX came along and gave me a familiar UNIX command line, that was a major windfall. The Mac is so "right" in so many ways... well, let's just say that I expect to be a dedicated Mac fan for life.

 

P.S. I don't have any "iStuff." Well, except for iTunes copies of some CD's that I already own. I'm not married to the hobbyist applications. I use Logic, Lightroom, Photoshop, Excel, Word, and Safari primarily.