AUSSIEKEYS Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Where my opinion differs, is in what you ARE doing, not what you AREN'T. I agree with 80s-liz that running a sequence does not mean you are playing less...but sometimes more I played a duo for a few years, we got pretty respected, I once said to my agent...."I think I play too much over the songs".."i am really playing what I play as a soloist and sing on top of that"... he said "thats what makes you different to the other duos, you have the normal midifiles but you make it your own as a piano dominated duo..dont change a thing" [we checked out the competition and you wont believe the amount of popular [read top] duos here that have the wife faking it on keyboard [even no cables coming out of a home keyboard] and have crummy voices to boot [made up for it by a very good guitar husband with a decent voice] and they are the ones working non stop for 20 years or so.. they were the ones who us newcomers had to chase...the venues dont care how brilliant you are as long as you can cut it and have the top name in duos you can cruize on that for years.ie the agents present them as their top duo,as long as they cut it they only hear a full band anyway....] its been 7 years since I was in that duo and those top duo's names I've still seen around in the club books and still seem on top or in high demand,it is a cruel master the music industry.] So anyway in duos ,literally I was playing more than I would in a band, not less, and singing on top of it as well as running the PA and midifiles, infact joining this new band is so much easier..hee hee and before you say why not ditch the files when you are playing fully overtop...well it dont work that way in venue land here..the clubs want a full band sound from a 2 piece..simple as that...and finally I made a full living from music and played 3 nights a week which I could not do in a band..ironic isnt it. the piano man thing is reasonably limited here [well at least out in the suburbs were I play], I know a brilliant soloist who uses midifiles, she is a much better player than me and good singer, can hold her own where I might fail, but she wont go out without her midifiles, because thats what they want...it is sad, but it is what it is. so 80-liz I know exactly what you mean, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 In Britain, it's remarkably rare to see a performer sing live in a TV spot.That's because when they do, things like this happen.... [video:youtube] A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phred Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Tony and many others of you feel that to have anything at all sequenced or prerecorded immediately disqualifies the entire performance as live. As one of the 'others' I would like to qualify what I meant. I personally feel that if I notice that any of a performance is prerecorded, I always wonder what else is prerecorded that I might think is live. I wonder how the band would sound with out the precorded tracks. That Amy Winehouse clip is funny. I don't know who the other girl is, but she's a good singer. It highlights how out of it Amy is. I'm just saying', everyone that confuses correlation with causation eventually ends up dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Horne Posted November 11, 2009 Author Share Posted November 11, 2009 I don't know who the other girl is, but she's a good singer. Yea, a clear solid voice. I wonder what was going through her mind during that clip. No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message. In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 That Amy Winehouse clip is funny. I don't know who the other girl is, but she's a good singer. It highlights how out of it Amy is. Charlotte Church Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37 Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus64 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 That Amy Winehouse clip is funny. I don't know who the other girl is, but she's a good singer. It highlights how out of it Amy is. Charlotte Church Yup. She was a superstar when she was a kid in the quasi-classical crossover world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Iverson Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Back to truth in advertising: I remember how my jazz guitar teacher told me in about '73 that he was very disappointed when he found out Chet Atkins used overdubbing on some of his records. And classical guitarist Chris Parkening overdubbed a part on one piece of his "Parkening Plays Bach". From what I've read, some classical performances on record are the product are cutting and pasting several performances to get the best result. And it's well known that they usually do more than one take of songs on jazz records, and that jazz improvisers do depend on stock licks... it's not ALL 100% improvised in most cases. I don't recall that this was noted on the album covers, and honestly, there is no reason why it should be. But I think live performance is different, IMHO. At least if the individual is considered a "great musician", whatever that means. PS The stripper disclaimer was hilarious! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus64 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 From what I've read, some classical performances on record are the product are cutting and pasting several performances to get the best result. I made some that literally have 100s of edits, and that was in the 90s. This one was the biggest offender: klonk. I don't think we played more than 20 seconds at a time. Lot's of "live" classical CDs are actually 3 nights of concerts spliced together. There is supposedly a studio recording by a superstar that they spliced in a few notes of another violinist, whether that's true or not I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duff beer Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 And then there's looping (although this gal kicks a$$!!): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phred Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I am a hypocrite. I admit it. For some reason I respect the live looping thing like this clip far more then bringing in sequences... In fact I really like it, and find it quite entertaining... See, I am a hypocrite... There was another one posted here a while back that kicked my a$$. It's awesome. Imogen Heap - I wonder why I prefer the 'build the loops live' approach? Maybe because part of my brain says, okay they built the loops in front of you... Maybe because I feel that it is essentially live because I heard the original production of the tone, and they didn't try it 1,000 times to get it right (at least in front of me). I'm just saying', everyone that confuses correlation with causation eventually ends up dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJUSCULE Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I agree. Loops are a different story than sequences and backing tracks. They are live. They are done in one take, in front of you. There's an art in being able to stack parts like that live. Eric Website Gear page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Davis Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Pat Metheny uses sequences in a musical way, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosendorphen Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 From what I've read, some classical performances on record are the product are cutting and pasting several performances to get the best result. Didn't Glenn Gould really get this ball rolling with his quest for perfectionism? I thought that Horowitz' home recordings during his 12-year sabbatical had some editing done IIRC. Or perhaps it was some recordings done in the concert hall a bit later that were edits made of multiple takes. I have to re-read my Glen Plaskin bio of Mr. H. "The devil take the poets who dare to sing the pleasures of an artist's life." - Gottschalk Soundcloud Aethellis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Loving Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Wasn't Kind of Blue done in one take? "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Iverson Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 For me, it's a question of the quality of the finished product, more than the actual tools used. Still, I am not comfortable with someone only to play in one key, and depending on software to tranpose. What will the poor SOB do if he had to do those songs on an acoustic piano? Or a singer who can't sing on pitch depending on quantizers... far worse. There are lots of singers out there who CAN sing on pitch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonksDream Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Wasn't Kind of Blue done in one take? Nope, I highly recommend reading Kind of Blue about the recording of the classic album. Fun read! Instrumentation is meaningless - a song either stands on its own merit, or it requires bells and whistles to cover its lack of adequacy, much less quality. - kanker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Horne Posted November 12, 2009 Author Share Posted November 12, 2009 Still, I am not comfortable with someone only to play in one key, and depending on software to tranpose. What will the poor SOB do if he had to do those songs on an acoustic piano? Electricity is the great divider. No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message. In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Electricity is the great divider. Separating the conductive from the non-conductive? "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meisenhower Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Wasn't Kind of Blue done in one take? Kind of Blue wasn't done in one take, but it was done with a very minimum of takes (I think the album version of So What was actually take 2, but I might be wrong, as it's been quite a while since I read the book). Miles didn't rehearse ANY of the material on KOB before hitting the studio and only handed out sketches of the tunes and some melody lines. For what it's worth, Bill Evans was a HUGE part of making KOB even Miles was quick to acknowledge that. The book about the making of the recording is a fantastic read. Yamaha C7 Grand, My Hammonds: '57 B3, '54 C2, '42 BC, '40 D, '05 XK3 Pro System, Kawai MP9000, Fender Rhodes Mk I 73, Yamaha CP33, Motif ES6, Nord Electro 2, Minimoog Voyager & Model D, Korg MS10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Loving Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Thanks! I just bought the book. "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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