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transfering files from Mac to PC


BluesKeys

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I am about to record my new band's demo in a studio many miles from all of the band members. (The price was right and it is a friend's studio). We plan on laying down the rhythm tracks using Pro Tools for Mac and then using a jump drive take those track and load them into Sonar 6 on my PC and doing vocals, and overdubs. Any suggestions on the best way to transfer these without any hitches?

 

thanks

Jimmy

 

Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others. Groucho

NEW BAND CHECK THEM OUT

www.steveowensandsummertime.com

www.jimmyweaver.com

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It is all really pretty straightforward.

 

In terms of saving the files, you save each instrument as a 24 bit 44.1, 48, 88.2 or 96k (or higher, if you need to...) wave file.

 

It must be saved in a way that can be read by your PC CD or DVD player (assuming you'll burnt he files to CD or DVD), or to an external hard drive formatted for FAT32 or NTFS.

 

When you save the files, you make each file start at the beginning of the project. Example, you've got a background vocal that doesn't start until 1 minute 20 seconds into the first verse. You might be tempted to try to save a file that starts 1 minute 10 seconds into the first verse. Don't do that. Start all saved wave files at the beginning. Then every track will line up perfectly.

 

That is pretty much it.

 

When you open the files into Sonar, I suggest that you copy the files into your Sonar data drive first if you've saved them to CD or DVD.

 

I've done the same thing, the opposite way... we record the root files in Samplitude to a dedicated external hard drive. The drive is sent off to an outside house that uses ProTools for final mixdown/mastering.

 

There is a NARAS document from the Producers and Engineers Wing which describes the process in more detail. It was designed specifically so that files could be exchanged among all DAWs.

 

Bill

"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

 

Steve Martin

 

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.

 

 

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If you do choose to use an external hard drive - the recent Mac can both read and write to a FAT32 partition (maximum size of these is 32 gigs), the Mac can read but not write to NTFS file system - without some additional software to enable writing. (learned this in some research for a project going the other way, save files on PC, read them on Mac).

 

PC cannot read nor write to the native Mac file system. Most thumb drives are 32G or smaller - and the ones I have seen are formatted with FAT32 - so they should be usable on either Mac or PC.

 

 

 

Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's

HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Jim

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Ask the ProTools person to "Bounce to Disk" off the Main Outs (WAV format, stereo interleave, 16-bit is probably fine and 44.1K). The selection bounced, as stated above, should be the entire track from beginning to end.

 

Running Protools, PCs CAN see Mac drives if PT is installed with that option. I run PT on a Mac but set up a Windows partition using Boot Camp. When in Windows mode, I can see all the mac drives on my system. Digi provides a very high level of interoperability between PT running on Windows and Mac.

 

Busch.

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great info although much of it is over my head... lol

 

For those that do this what size jump drive would I need if all we have is 4-5 songs and just rhythm tracks of bass, guitar, Piano, organ and drums? I was thinking each song would be about 2 gig max so 16 gig would be more than enough.

Jimmy

 

Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others. Groucho

NEW BAND CHECK THEM OUT

www.steveowensandsummertime.com

www.jimmyweaver.com

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I was assuming you're going to be going back to PT for the final mix. If that's not the case and you're mixing down in Sonar then you'll need all the individual tracks and at 24-bit. If you just need a rough mix in order to track against in Sonar you can use 16-bit and a single stereo mix for each song.

 

Busch.

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That depends on exactly how long your songs are, exactly what your track sheet looks like, and the sample rate and sample size used. At 44.1k 16 bit, it's a shade over 10 meg a minute for a stereo track. At 192k 24 bit, it's a little under 70 meg a minute for a stereo track. A mono track, of course, would be half of that.

 

You could do all the math, but your 2Gb per tune ballpark guess seems like a good one. That's about ten minutes of 24 mono tracks at 48k, 24 bit. A 16 Gb stick ought to be plenty.

 

It's important that it be formatted FAT32 and not NTFS, otherwise the Mac won't be able to write to it. Not much to worry about, since I've never met a thumb drive that wasn't formatted FAT32.

 

 

 

 

 

 

--wmp
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Busch, I will be going back to Pro tools for final mix but it will be at a different studio so I think I should stay at 24 bit.

 

great help guys... wish me luck it is my first project with my own band and my first real project on Sonar since I got it.

Jimmy

 

Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others. Groucho

NEW BAND CHECK THEM OUT

www.steveowensandsummertime.com

www.jimmyweaver.com

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If I can figure out how to post them... Still looking a band name so I can set up a website.... Why are band names sooo hard?

Jimmy

 

Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others. Groucho

NEW BAND CHECK THEM OUT

www.steveowensandsummertime.com

www.jimmyweaver.com

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If I can figure out how to post them... Still looking a band name so I can set up a website.... Why are band names sooo hard?

 

Because guys in bands think that they are real important. They're not.

"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

 

Steve Martin

 

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.

 

 

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Blueskey,

What you want to do is burn your session in the OMF file format(Open Media File Format). Pro Tools burns in that format, and Sonar will read it. This saves the file in separate tracks so that when you open it, you'll open ALL tracks per file in Sonar. Also..you'll need to burn to DVD....just not enough room on a CD. You will not need anything else on the DVD but each song in OMF. Pop that DVD into a reader and open Sonar. Don't remember the exact commands, but Sonar will see the OMF file and import it with all tracks aligned. I would NOT burn individual tracks and then try to import each track into a Sonar file. While lining tracks up may SEEM to be easy...it's not.

 

We recorded last October on a Pro Tools system, and I mixed all the tunes in Sonar. Works great.

"May you stay...forever young."

 

 

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Blueskey,

...I would NOT burn individual tracks and then try to import each track into a Sonar file. While lining tracks up may SEEM to be easy...it's not.

 

 

I 'd like you to explain that to me for two reasons.

 

The first reason is that this is the accepted file exchange format as determined by the National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences (they give out the GRAMMYs)

http://www.grammy.com/PDFs/Recording_Academy/Producers_And_Engineers/DeliveryRecs.pdf

and the Audio Engineering Society (AES 31-3).

 

The second is that I don't understand how, if all of the files start at exactly the same time, and you drop them all onto an edit decision list in ANY audio program, each file on its own track, how in the world do they get out of alignment? They are sample accurate... that is at least 44,100 samples per second. And all fines start at 0. if they are out of time, it is a player not a file problem.

 

There is nothing wrong with OMF... it is ancent and refuses to die, and it is used by a lot of film and video guys. But it is FAR from universally supported.

 

If the sessions are for your band and you might need to take them elsewhere in the future, it makes sense to store the resulting files in the most acceptable and least limiting format possible.

"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

 

Steve Martin

 

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.

 

 

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Bill-meant no disrespect with that response. After re-reading mine, I can see how you took issue. My apologies.

 

I thought the same; if all tracks in a file start at 0, and you drop all tracks into any audio program at 0, they should be perfectly aligned.

 

My comments arise from a recent recording session. I work with a percussionist that has pretty amazing timing. In a recent recording we did, moving from Pro Tools to Sonar, we recorded and exported each track as a wav, then imported into Sonar. With all tracks starting at 0, he was simply not satisfied with the timing. I couldn't hear anything obviously wrong but he pointed out the timing issues while showing me as he played how they were out of alignment. It was pretty subtle, but I did hear it as he pointed it out. I thought it was an import problem. After two sessions with two seperate files each imported via individual wav, neither of which satisfied him, I did some research and learned of OMF. We re-exported the file as OMF and brought them into Sonar....and he never had another issue. Still don't know why exactly, but that's the source of my comments. I chalked it up to a file header issue, or something of the sort, but never verified that as he was content and I was busy mixing. If someone has an explanation...I'm all ears.

 

Busch...you probably know more then I about ProTools. The version we used could export to OMF.

 

I'm not aware of how old OMF is. I know Sonar 3 (still using)can deal with the format; I don't know if more recent versions do as well. I felt OMF was very convenient in that a full multi-tracked session can be imported in one fell swoop.

 

It worked well for us, YMMV.

"May you stay...forever young."

 

 

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Still looking a band name so I can set up a website.... Why are band names sooo hard?

 

Because you have not used powerful tools for that:

 

http://www.bandnamemaker.com/

 

and:

 

A Guide To Indie Band Names

Músico, Productor, Ingeniero, Tecnólogo

Senior Product Manager, América Latina y Caribe - PreSonus

at Fender Musical Instruments Company

 

Instagram: guslozada

Facebook: Lozada - Música y Tecnología

 

www.guslozada.com

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My comments arise from a recent recording session. ...I chalked it up to a file header issue...If someone has an explanation...I'm all ears.

 

 

I hate to say this, because I wasn't there. But the first thing that comes to mind is operator error. Could any of the files have been nudged accidentally from being bang on 0? Because as I said, at 44,100 samples per second or better... that is a pretty fine clock. Knocking it out of time would take a really significant program error. Pushing it out far enough to be heard would -really- be a problem.

 

But I have seen people dropping tracks into EDLs and not paying attention to their precise position, and I've zoomed into the EDL display to show them how yea, they were close, but they did not have their cursor exactly at zero when they dropped the files.

 

Plus, you are the only person that I have EVER seen or heard try to promote the idea that the timing will be off in that situation. There are just too many people working in Sonar for this not to be a well-discussed problem. Though I'm not a Sonar user, I was on the original beta test team and up to version 1.n, I was able to drop in files from any program that I used at the time with no timing issues. (I used a 24 channel test suite of files which were duplicated on DA-88. You can do all sorts of manipulation and combinations of recording, bouncing, etc.)

"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

 

Steve Martin

 

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.

 

 

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I wasn't the recording engineer and didn't do the work in PT. It could have been an operator error, and as you say, errors occur. I'm sure what the percussionist was hearing was milliseconds in time.

 

And I'm not trying to "promote" anything, Bill. I've dropped multisession wavs into Sonar before with no issues. The OP specifically asked about a PT to Sonar transfer. When we did that, things didn't align. Whether operator or program error, it made no difference. The OMF file was simple, convenient, fast and had no issues with timing. I posted simply to provide another methodology to accomplish this that worked for us. If both systems support OMF, it's a viable way to go.

"May you stay...forever young."

 

 

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I wasn't the recording engineer and didn't do the work in PT. It could have been an operator error, and as you say, errors occur. I'm sure what the percussionist was hearing was milliseconds in time.

 

I'm certain it was either operator error or a bug in one of the programs. It is not possible to hear a difference at any usable sample rate. We're talking way smaller intervals than milliseconds.

 

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