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difference between Kurz 2500XS and 2600


zephonic

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To all you Kurz buffs, I saw a used 2500XS for bottom $ on CL and need to know in what way it is different from the 2600. I used the latter extensively and love the way it plays. Does the 2500 have the same presets etc? Thanks in advance.

 

PS: this board is not maxed out, no upgrades etc.

 

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The K2600 series is virtually identical to the K2500. With all the same and compatible options and features, the K2600 adds increased preset V.A.S.T wave memory with a standard 12MB expandable to 44MB as opposed to the K2500's 8MB expandable to 28MB. The K2600 series also dawns a sportier looking purple and black color-scheme.

 

Another difference is the DSP chips they used in the K2600 were much more advanced than those they used in the K2500.

 

In the K2500 they used a Digitech DSP 256 effects chip. In the K2600 they designed and built their own. Big difference in sound quality.

 

From their website:

 

Kurzweil KDFX is standard on all K2600s. KDFX utilizes Kurzweil's VLSI DSP chip. It includes a versatile 5-stereo-bus design, 24-bit signal processing, cutting edge DSP functionality, and unparalleled real-time control, all with an extremely flexible routing scheme. All I/O can be routed through KDFX including 8 outputs and 8 inputs from Kurzweil Digital Stream (KDS + DMTi) digital I/O, or sampling I/O or DADAT-26 ADAT I/O. KDFX opens a whole new realm of possibilities for the K2600.

 

Tom

 

"Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo
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The 2600 series was a later design - all of them had Kurzweil's KDFX effects and no longer had the earlier effects unit. RAM capability is the same - 128MB. PRAM is a bit higher in the 2600 both standard and expansion are higher - this is the battery backed memory that stores non-sample parameters.

 

The 2600 allows "triple-mode" processing (with later operating systems, which can be downloaded and installed by the user), which increases the ability to generate complex voicings.

 

The 2600 also has Kurzweil's KB3 mode of operation - which is a tonewheel/Leslie simulation method. Although not considered as realistic as a dedicated clonewheel synth, it does generate quite usable sounds (I own a 2661, the 61key unweighted version of the 2600 series).

 

If you are looking at a 2500, find out for sure if it has KDFX or not; that is a significant difference in used price. With KDFX, most of the 2500 sounds will be similar to the 2600 sounds (the factory presets are not identical between them - you can download both Musicians' and Reference manuals for both instruments from Kurzweil).

 

Be prepared for the size and weight - a 2500XS or 2600XS weighs in at about 72 pounds.

 

 

 

Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's

HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Jim

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If you are looking at a 2500, find out for sure if it has KDFX or not; that is a significant difference in used price. With KDFX, most of the 2500 sounds will be similar to the 2600 sounds (the factory presets are not identical between them - you can download both Musicians' and Reference manuals for both instruments from Kurzweil).

 

Jim,

 

Are you saying that the K2500 can be retrofit with the KDFX DSP? I did not know that.

 

I thought that the KDFX did not become available until the K2600 models were introduced.

 

Tom

 

"Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo
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The 2600 also has Kurzweil's KB3 mode of operation - which is a tonewheel/Leslie simulation method. Although not considered as realistic as a dedicated clonewheel synth, it does generate quite usable sounds (I own a 2661, the 61key unweighted version of the 2600 series).

 

Y'know Jim, this has always intrigued me.

 

How come a Hammond XK-3c sounds like a Hammond, but my PC2X's KB3 mode is lacking?

 

Maybe this is a question that has been answered on the SonikMatter forum.

 

...be right back. :)

 

"Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo
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The 2600 also has Kurzweil's KB3 mode of operation - which is a tonewheel/Leslie simulation method. Although not considered as realistic as a dedicated clonewheel synth, it does generate quite usable sounds (I own a 2661, the 61key unweighted version of the 2600 series).

 

Y'know Jim, this has always intrigued me.

 

How come a Hammond XK-3c sounds like a Hammond, but my PC2X's KB3 mode is lacking?

 

Maybe this is a question that has been answered on the SonikMatter forum.

 

...be right back. :)

 

 

In my experience, the tonewheel component of the K2600/PC3 KB3 mode is very adequate. When I plug both my PC3X and my Korg CX3 into my MotionSound Pro145 I can adjust things so I can't tell the boards apart. The place where the K2600/PC3 mode (PC3 I believe sounds better than the K2600) falls down is in the Leslie effect. I don't know why - it's just not in the same class as the other clones... yet. While I have no inside information as to the workings of Kurzweil R&D, they are a scrappy bunch and I know they are aware that some users are not blown away by the Leslie effect. I'm fairly confident that they will eventually get it right - if not in the PC3 series, then in future products.

 

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To all you Kurz buffs, I saw a used 2500XS for bottom $ on CL and need to know in what way it is different from the 2600. I used the latter extensively and love the way it plays. Does the 2500 have the same presets etc? Thanks in advance.

 

PS: this board is not maxed out, no upgrades etc.

 

Be aware that the keyboard action of the K2600/K2500/PC2 breaks down over time and the keyweights fall out. I've glued more than a few in the K2600 I used to have. I've also replaced a couple in my PC2. The PC3 and PC3X on the other hand have a completely different action that doesn't have this problem.

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The big difference is KDFX. It really makes the K series sound like a new instrument. The analog emulations are much more beefy with the KDFX filters than with the VAST filters. But just every sound is enhanced.

Triple mode can be useful too, if you are an experienced programmer.

Also beware of the quality control issues on the K2500 series (keys and buttons not very reliable). Most were worked out with the K2600/2661.

 

On the other hand, you could use the 2500 to try your hand at VAST... then upgrade to a K3000 in a year or so. :D

 

 

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Actually, the factory patches on my PC2 in KB3 mode do sound better than those on the K2661. However, the notes don't really go up to the high range. I can transpose up an octave on the 2661.

 

KB3 mode is considerably improved on my PC3 - if I specialized in Hammond sound (soloing), I would still need to have a Leslie (the PC3 can route the KB3 signal through the Aux outputs while routing other sounds through the main outputs). However, for the occasional organ part or comping behind the band, I find it quite sufficient as is (at least, it is not worth spending the extra money to buy a separate piece of gear to me).

 

Tom, IF you can find a KDFX unit, they were sold as accessories for the 2500 series. I don't think Kurzweil has any left new ones. You also need to know exactly how it connects and interfaces with the 2500 (Kurzweil usually only releases this information to authorized service centers); and you have to change the Operating System of the 2500, the last couple of versions of the OS were only for 2500's that had KDFX.

 

Zephonic - be sure to check out the condition of the keyboard on the 2500XS; as several have mentioned - they didn't stand up well to rough handling (Amanda Palmer used PC88MX - had five of them to be sure she always had one working. Should I mention that she plays HARD. So far the PC3X has been standing up to her playing a lot better than the older instruments).

 

Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's

HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Jim

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If it's an XS....that's an 88 key with the sampling option. If it has KDFX, I believe you'll also have "live mode". You need both on the 2600 for live mode to operate. It opens KDFX to real time efx processing. Lot of cool things to do with it, but on solo gigs with my 2600XS, I used it on vocals. Always thought it sounded great and kept me from having to bring other gear. Sold it though...that board was a beast to carry around.

"May you stay...forever young."

 

 

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