How's Your Left Hand?

[lucasb]

Bach and counterproductive can't even exist in the same sentence. Just reading about him will make you better.

[Jazzwee]

I got so encouraged by what you posted today Dave that I think I got a lot of my practice session today. I have to slow it down but I was actually able to create separate lines with LH/RH.

 

When I practiced this before (at tempo), mostly I'm sticking with an almost walking bass with just a changing rhythmic pattern. Now if I actually put thought into it, I was creating two overlapping melodies. Not necessarily counterpoint though but maybe sort of an offset time. It was like putting my brain the LH solo and the RH went on automatic, which it can.

 

The only major limitation is articulation, LH swing and my inability to do the LH at tempo. But a step at a time. A year from now, I might be doing this automatically.

 

Another thing that my teacher taught me was what he called fragmentation. Creating LH/RH combined snippets where the LH plays mostly stacatto. This is something he does and I actually made this my first attempt. But the LH is not really melodic in this role.

 

This is really a fun project for me because it's like finding my voice kind of thing. This wasn't something originally taught to me. I just like the style.

 

[Jazzwee]

Did you guys check out that Youtube example I gave? Reposting here

 

Is this guy overdoing it? Although it is jazz it is starting to sound like Bach.

While I like that approach, here's what I heard: At first, his facility, flow and control sounded nice, although it didn't allow the melody to really stand out from the improv. Then with some issues with phrase timing/bar lengths and overall sameness, it turned into an overdone exercise.

 

That was a very good analysis particularly with the melody statement. I could see what you and Dave are talking about. Jarrett would play like this an intro though so it's not a new concept. I think that would be a nice addition to the vocabulary toolbox, especially for solo piano and then mix it up like what Fred Hersch would do.

 

[Jazzwee]

Any of you guys do a lot of bass walking? Maybe because of my modern jazz bent, I find it's not something I would actually do in solo piano. I always find some other alternate way to play that gives a more full sound with middle voices. Walking does not click with me for some reason. I haven't done it in years.

 

It's a nice LH skill. I could somewhat have a varied LH line but I started off just memorizing a bass line. But I just find no occasion to actually use it other than as a technical practice.

[Dave Ferris]

Any of you guys do a lot of bass walking?.

 

I do it more when accompanying singers in a duo format. Sometimes Sax players too. I'd like to be more efficient using it within my solo playing, it's not something I've worked on at all....I should though. I've heard Kenny Werner play some nice things with the walking bass.

 

OT--I was just listening to his record "Delicate Balance" tonight w/Dave Holland & Dejohnette. Hadn't heard it in awhile.....wow some great stuff on there. Recorded in '97.

 

Glad you got a little something out of that JW.

[Bridog6996]

Did you guys check out that Youtube example I gave? Reposting here

 

Is this guy overdoing it? Although it is jazz it is starting to sound like Bach.

 

Like Someone In Love in 5. Pretty cool. Although his left hand is pretty busy, I don't hear much actual counterpoint in there. What he's doing is more just dividing lines between the hands, and playing bass lines derived from arpeggios of the changes (I dug some of the substitutions). It does sound "busier," but I didn't catch any extra substance. It's a lot of notes, but the contrapuntal aspect is missing. What sets Bach apart, and modern players like Hersch and Mehldau that can pull off that style so well, are the intricate layers of coherent melodic material laid over each other. My ears didn't hear that in that video, but that's not to say it didn't sound great, though.

 

There's a fine line in terms of overdoing it. If that performance had been any longer than 2 minutes, I would have found myself probably wanting to hear a different type of texture. Then again, I could listen to Mehldau play like that for hours on end, but guys like him are definitely on that "other level" which allows them to constantly keep things interesting no matter what the situation.

[J. Dan]

I kind of break LH into several categoties - each of which I do with varying frequency and ability.

 

1) basic root octaves, 5ths etc. Most common for me. ex: Journey - Don't Stop Believin, Billy Joel - My Life, etc. Probably the easiest.

 

2) LH Melodies - these are more typical of Baroque if you're talking classical. For me, more likely just another instrument I would typically do RH, but my RH is already busy.

 

3) LH Chords - could be same as above: a part I would normally do RH, but it's already in use. But also, Jazz, where you're doing LH chords while the RH solos. Severely lacking in that category.

 

4) Finally, walking bass lines. I've always either played with a bass player, or played the bass. So I've never had occasion to develope this skill, but I'd like to.

 

The whole point is moot for me right now, but that's another story!

[MAJUSCULE]

Bach is great, as you must've heard by now But he's not the only one! Just like any other style, good classical is something that can improve you light-years, sounds amazing and is actually fun to play too! Heck, all Miles listened to at home was French Impressionists (and he's not the only one). Most heavyweights have classical training.

[Dave Horne]

In addition to all the great suggestions here, I try to make my warm up time (40 minutes) as efficient and productive as possible ... and my LH always gets a work out as well.

 

I've written this before -

 

I try and do four things at the same time when warming up every day -

 

1. I warm up, that goes without saying

2. I play something technical - one note each hand - unison lines - patterns, scalar patterns, arpeggios, whatever

3. Whatever I decide on, it gets worked on in every key

4. I try and work on a pattern, whatever, that I might actually be able to incorporate in my playing

 

... in other words, whatever my RH does during those 40 minutes, my LH also plays the same exact 'thing'.

 

I also find it beneficial to just play LH 'things'. You'll always notice that playing the same 'thing' at the same time with your RH makes the LH playing easier - so, stop and just use your LH.

 

 

[Dave Horne]

Any of you guys do a lot of bass walking?

 

I try and walk my bass every day. If you don't they mess on the carpet.

[JeffLearman]

If I use my left hand, my right hand gets jealous!

 

Seriously, I'm like Joe -- I tend to keep my LH parts very simple, either Paul McCartney style doubled bass, or else blues walking bass lines, and most of all, not much unless it works with what the bass player's doing. I'm envious of the cats who can comp lefty while playing a lead -- I can barely play a lead so heck with that.

 

I do play a couple tunes that have striding in them, and that's a gas. Just don't compare me to Fats Waller, please. (Actually, the ones I do are ala Lyle Mays, but don't compare me to him either.)

 

I'm getting better all the time at handling the drawbars while playing, though!

 

Dave, don't forget to put your bass back in the pond after each walk.

[DanL]

My left hand used to be decent. Now after so many years of playing in bands, I don't have the independence between hands that I once had. Lots of 2 hand chording, and left hand chording with a solo over the top. I practice walking bass, organ style, and use that as a warmup, but doing a real good solo over that with my right hand isn't so easy anymore.

[marino]

Almost forgot to mention Brahms' transcription of Bach's famous Chaconne in D for solo violin. Brahms made a piano version for left hand alone, which is difficult in spots, but not impossible to read. Of course the piece is gorgeous, and you go across every possible l.h. challenge.

 

 

[Threadslayer]

25 years ago when I was gigging 6 nights a week I injured a tendon on my right hand (due to the shitty action on my Rhodes)and had to immobilize it for 6 weeks. Never missed a gig. By the end of that 6 weeks my left hand was smokin! Necessity is the mother of invention. Unfortunately, all that LH practice didn't translate into any improvement in my LH RH independence which I have always thought is the greater challenge. I find it interesting that in all the responses to this thread only one refers to this part of the equation. I do find that now that I'm older and just play for the hell of it I'm much more adventurous and willing to take chances with my playing and have noticed that when I don't over think it too much, my left hand rises to the challenge and holds its own no matter what my right hand is doing. It's also very liberating when you don't give a damn what other people think about your technique.

[Jazzwee]

Good comments guys.

 

Carlo, I get tense when you lay out those classical pieces. I'm such a poor reader I can probably duplicate it faster by ear. That's the real reason I balk at Bach...

 

Now I always play scales and my hand independence is pretty good. But I found that doing bass lines is not the same moves as actually improvising on the LH. Bass lines -- I tend to use the thumb more on the black notes. Bad habit when Improvising I find. It's like the LH is good for big moves. Tenths, octaves and fifths. For fine work, the thumb seems to get me in trouble. A little bit of relearning there.

[frogmonkey]

Not as good as it used to be. I used to try to solo polyphonically a lot, but now I try to leave more space.

 

And I don't play as many solo gigs these days, either.

 

OTOH, when I play latin jazz (not as often as I used to), I really like to play the same lines in both hands, separated by 2 octaves. That can be a good workout.

[Mr. Nightime]

My left hand used to be a lot better than it is now, though not always great. But I played with too many bass players that complained that I was in their sonic space, so the left hand didn't get much use.

 

Now it's mostly comping chords during solos, with the typical boogie rock when playing blues shuffles. Or, grabbing Hammond chords while working out the right hand on piano.

 

I need to break out the Boogie Woogie Hanon again.

 

[CEB]

Independance is a tough thing period. It is more of a mental problem than a physical problem. Something as seemingly easy as singing the bop bops on "Don't Be Cruel" while playing can be hard.

 

The mind is the 2nd thing that goes.

 

RH LF independace is important to me cause I need it for stuff like playing brass lines with left hand while soloing or doing something else with the right. I do a lot right hand piano and left hand organ stuff. It is different when the keyboard are in different physical positions. My piano keyboard usually would face the audience and the organ would be to my left facing the rest of the band. Now I use one of those Suzuki keyboard and have them stacked all on the same stand. That makes it a lot easier cause now I can do diferrent hand combinations on things based on the octave postions of the respective licks.

 

I played in the few bands where I held down the bass player job. That helped my left hand but it also tied down my piano playing a lot. There are a lot of tricks had to give up in order to hold down the groove during solos. But the pay was better.

 

[ProfD]

When it comes to my LH, I think like a bass player and it operates accordingly. I'm trying to get away from that in order to become a better pianist.

[MikeT156]

by CEB:

 

The mind is the 2nd thing that goes

 

Someone take a wild guess what the first one is!

 

 

Mike T.

[Jazzwee]

25 years ago when I was gigging 6 nights a week I injured a tendon on my right hand (due to the shitty action on my Rhodes)and had to immobilize it for 6 weeks. Never missed a gig. By the end of that 6 weeks my left hand was smokin! Necessity is the mother of invention. Unfortunately, all that LH practice didn't translate into any improvement in my LH RH independence which I have always thought is the greater challenge. I find it interesting that in all the responses to this thread only one refers to this part of the equation. I do find that now that I'm older and just play for the hell of it I'm much more adventurous and willing to take chances with my playing and have noticed that when I don't over think it too much, my left hand rises to the challenge and holds its own no matter what my right hand is doing. It's also very liberating when you don't give a damn what other people think about your technique.

 

That's pretty interesting Wastrel. I had a little RH hand surgery last year and actually my LH did improve because of it. But I started to refocus on building RH strength and then I'm back to old habits. Just goes to show it's all a conscious choice. In my case now, I'm making a conscious choice to do something different. Not because I have to but for fun reasons.