Dealing with "unfamiliar" sound men (or not)

[Joe Muscara]

We were at a club in Austin called Momo's to see Seth Walker (who kanker sometimes gigs with) and I was getting a laugh out of the sound guy there, in a good way. At first, I didn't realize who he was. We were on the opposite side of the room from the mixer, so this guy that kept coming over to the side we were on, looking at the stage, thinking a bit, making an imaginary list on his fingers, and then disappearing to the other side seemed a little weird. Then I realized it was the sound guy and he was checking the sound on the far side of the room from where he worked. I was impressed.

 

I've worked with two or three different engineers at Momo's, but they're always top-notch, and always genuinely excited to see me schlepping the Leslie up the fire escape in the back - never have to ask to get them to mic the bottom rotor, which is usually a pretty good indicator. The guy at the Saxon Pub is also outstanding - far and away the best live mixes I've ever heard, both on-stage and in the house. The room has something to do with it, but he definitely knows his craft.

I've been to the Saxon a few times and I agree house the sound is good there too. I've not noticed the engineer, but that's likely a good thing in most cases. Who do you play with? Maybe I can look you up next time we're in Austin.

[Ian Benhamou]

3) Sound check takes longer than 20 minutes.

 

While I completely agree with the bragging soundman prediction, the under 20 minute benchmark I have to disagree. Especially, if it's the first time he works with you. I've found that the best soundmen really take the time to adjust the details and find the sound of your band. Sometimes there's unforeseen problems in the room, like mirrors on the stage causing a lot of high frequency reflection making the drum mic's feed, etc. And that's just the line check. The guys who do it fast often just get the line check done, do a rough mix and pretty much set and forget. I want a guy who wants to hear 7-8 song excrpts during a soundcheck to get an idea of the range of moods and sounds that we're going to produce. Also, a soundman who asks for a set list is always a great indication at his level of commitment.

 

The guys who go on cigarette breaks (or better yet a joint break) in the middle of your set are the ones I want to avoid. We work our asses off to get tight and get the best sound possible in rehearsals, and then let an incompetent prick flush it down the toilet because he doesn't give a rat's ass, AND he gets to walk away with almost as much pay as us. No thank you.

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

"While I completely agree with the bragging soundman prediction, the under 20 minute benchmark I have to disagree. Especially, if it's the first time he works with you."

 

Like so many other things that we discuss here, both sides are applicable at different times in different situations. I'd like to think that I can dial in just about any band rather quickly, but there are always days when it just won't get right.... like the carpenter who says, "No matter how many times I cut it, it just ain't long enough."

[Tonysounds]

3) Sound check takes longer than 20 minutes.

 

While I completely agree with the bragging soundman prediction, the under 20 minute benchmark I have to disagree....Sometimes there's unforeseen problems in the room, like mirrors on the stage causing a lot of high frequency reflection making the drum mic's feed, etc.....I want a guy who wants to hear 7-8 song excrpts during a soundcheck to get an idea of the range of moods and sounds that we're going to produce. Also, a soundman who asks for a set list is always a great indication at his level of commitment.

]

 

In LZ's case, his drummer is using an electronic kit, so mic problems don't apply there.

 

7 or 8 song excerpts: Amazing you have that much time and patience for soundchecks. Most of the time, at least in Chicago, the soundchecks are going on with the doors open. I don't want to do 8 song excerpts in front of people....why would they want to stay for the show when they can see/hear the soundcheck? One complete song is plenty: Most bands' different moods simply aren't all that different, and again, unless it's 'your' sound man, he's not going to remember which mood is which song (and if he is your sound man, ther's no need for him to hear 8 excerpts). One complete song that has as many if not all of the elements featured in your band (gtr solo, key solo if possible, vocal harmonies, any 'xtra' instrumentation) is generally plenty. And I'll make it a song we're not doing that nite so that we're not repeating it, for our benefit and the audience's.

[J. Dan]

Like I said, it's counter intuitive. I would think I would want somebody who's going to take more time. I'm just telling you from personal experience that the guys that take the longest are the same ones that end up having problems an running a bad mix. Doesn't necessarily mean that someone who takes their time is going to be bad, but most of the time that's the result. My guess is that it's because the guys who have a lot of experience and really know the rig they are running can get things lined out quickly. The guys with less experience take longer because they're trying to figure out what to do.

 

I posted an example recently. A house guy (relatively new) took probably 30-45 min to sound check. The entire 1st set was feedback - mostly subwoofers, and just constant - driving people off the dance floor. At one point we did something we never do and stopped and asked him if he could please fix that. He tried, byt to no avail. In fact, when we went on break, and they started playing the break music, the subs were still humming along even though he said he mted all the mics. There was no way we were going back on like that. I called another sound guy, talked to the manager about it, and brought him in to run the rest of the night. He hauled ass and showed up right before we were supposed to go back on. He had never even set foot inside this place, much less run on their system. He did literally a less than one minute sound check - kick, snare, toms, bass, jen, dave, jeff, dan, OK go ahead. Within one song, the sound was great and sounded perfect the rest of the night.

[ProfD]

A band should have a dedicated engineer especially for a specific sound. If a house engineer is willing to follow a list in order to provide it, that is admirable.

 

Otherwise, a good sound engineer knows the system and provides a crystal clear mix regardless of the venue, band, style of music, etc.

[Gismo Recording]

Well I'm be doing sound at a music festival in a month and you can be sure I won't spend 20 minutes soundchecking each band. We only have 15 minutes between bands to get one band's gear off the stage, the next's gear on the stage and set up. Only the first band gets a sound check. After that the sound check will be the first song.

[Eric Iverson]

Mostly I only notice sound people when the sound is bad, but I remember going to a NY club called the Bottom Line a few times, and the sound quality was always pristine, regardless of the band. So my hat's off to the sound crew for their part in it, and hope they find other gigs (the Bottom Line closed a while back).

 

Hearing sound that good can spoil you for places where the sound is pure mud! [but at least it's PURE.....]

 

I've played in situations with good acoustics and sound people, and the other extreme, too. Where they DID blow things up on a regular basis, somehow - it was surreal!

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

"Mostly I only notice sound people when the sound is bad,.."

 

absolutely. Even if it is not our fault.

 

I was doing a modern dance show in a 1600 seat theater here, and the drummer was playing crotales (bowed brass disks) which, naturally, sound just like sustained feedback. The entire audience turns to look at me.

 

 

 

[J. Dan]

I was doing a modern dance show in a 1600 seat theater here, and the drummer was playing crotales (bowed brass disks) which, naturally, sound just like sustained feedback. The entire audience turns to look at me.

 

LMAO!

 

Reminds me of when I got my first GM keyboard that hat that guitar fret noise sound. I used to watch our guitar player, and when he'd move his hand, I'd make the noise. He didn't realize it was coming from me and was trying really hard to stop doing it. This went on for a coulple weeks before he figured it out.

[Eric Iverson]

Quote: "Mostly I only notice sound people when the sound is bad,.."

 

absolutely. Even if it is not our fault.

 

I was doing a modern dance show in a 1600 seat theater here, and the drummer was playing crotales (bowed brass disks) which, naturally, sound just like sustained feedback. The entire audience turns to look at me.

 

---------

Eric here:

You're right, Bill, LOL! For the record, I'm not mean to the sound crews I've worked with, some one of which were excellent, some dangerously inept.... I let the bandleader ask them, please please pleases don't turn off the mikes in the middle of a singer's performance, things like that...

But all kudos to sound people who do excellent quality work!

 

The thing for me to do, as a guitarist who brings his own amp, gets a good sound level onstage with the other musicians, would be to actually LEARN something about running a sound board, so I could help rather than just criticize, which any idiot can do, LOL!

 

 

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

"when he'd move his hand, I'd make the noise. "

 

Now, thats just mean. ( I LIKE it, but it's mean.)

 

[Tusker]

When I am feeling particularly mischievous, I play midi note B1 with a squarewave. (which is sixty cycle hum)

 

After awhile, it becomes a running joke between the sound man and me. Generally we know what's happening and the rest of the band gets confused.

[Moonglow]

Timely thread here, with a positive experience to relate:

 

Last night my band played for an outdoor festival of about 1000 people. The night before, the soundman from the production company sent me an e-mail asking me how I amplify my keys, how many lines I need, etc., and he encouraged me to call him at the number he provided. Super nice, professional guy, and he did a fantastic job with the sound. For the record, sound check took about 20 minutes, but there was no real need to get it done expeditiously. After the show, I complimented him on the great job he did and let him know I much I appreciated his conscientiousness in contacting me the day before. Very cool.

[CEB]

Oh man, today I played an afternoon show at our city's Blues and Bar B Que festival.

 

Sound guy on the stage walks up to me and looks at my leslie and asks "Where does the sound come out."

 

I think, Oh boy this is gonna be good.

 

Actually I told them how to mic it and they listened to what I told them. I'm told it sounded pretty good.

 

 

 

[SK]

I've had a few excellent sound people who made the experience a real pleasure.

 

But 'jazz players' often have an extra problem with sound guys, as most are only familiar with loud rock setups, especially in festival situations. So I expect the average sound guy not to know how to work with more acoustic music. I always meet him and tell him to be watching for hand signals from me. Depending on the situation, I sometimes provide my own monitor sound.

 

Then there's clubs like D.C.'s Blues Alley with their own piano, sound system, and a sound guy who announces the musicians, so you're dependent on all that. The out front sound will be very reliable, but monitor balance requirements vary with different people, and the sound always changes when the audience comes in.

 

My all time biggest gripe in that type of situation is if they walk off after a quiet sound check and you can't signal them for any problem when you start. The sound job isn't finished after the sound check.