frogmonkey Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 They are quarter-note triplets, I have no doubt about it. Tap triplets as the song leads up to that point, they lock right in. The last quarter-note triplet is the first beat of the next verse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Tatum Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I listened to it again. TO me, it sounds like a 7/8 measure with a quintuplet. me too well, actually, assuming the quarter note is approximately 80 bpm, and that the basic time sig is 4/4, I hear this section as a bar of 2/4 followed by a bar of 7/16 with a five-tuplet over top of it. well, that's not quite true, I don't really hear it that way, I hear it as two sets of triplets with the last one dropped, with a slightly slower tempo. But the above is an attempt at a way to notate it. Marino, your solution is quite intriguing also. I wouldn't have thought of doing it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus64 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 They are quarter-note triplets, I have no doubt about it. Tap triplets as the song leads up to that point, they lock right in. We'll politely agree to disagree. I'm not getting that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Tatum Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Off-topic but related: To really analyze this clip, it would be useful to be able to record it from youtube. What's a good option for a streaming-audio recorder software? Anyone got any recommendations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewImprov Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I've never counted that tune, but I have friends who played with Matt Cameron before Soundgarden really hit, and the guy is allegedly a total poly-rhythm nerd. I loved Soundgarden, and the way that aspect crept into their tunes in such a natural way, stuff grooved so hard that the general public never noticed the wierd meters. Turn up the speaker Hop, flop, squawk It's a keeper -Captain Beefheart, Ice Cream for Crow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roscoe East Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 it would be two triplet figures, two sets of 3 against 2. But the 6th triplet is dropped The figure itself is fairly common in 20th Century "serious" music; that second 2/3rds of a triplet get notated just like an 8th note triplet, except instead of a "3" in the bracket it will say "2 of 3" As far as what to call the meter for that entire measure, there are fewer conventions. Most of the example I've seen show a time signature that looks like 5/3, except it's not really "3", it's a 3 within a bracket that designates a triplet (which afaik is completely impossible to indicate with my ASCII keyboard in this post, so I hope that description makes sense). Another option is to not use any meters. As long as the 8th note remains constant, it's surprisingly easy to sight-read mixed meter material without any indication of the actual meters. It's a 5/8 bar. ...or, as long as you indicated a tempo change (8th triplet = 8th) you could do that. Probably be the easiest way for conservative musicians to deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus64 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 [It's a 5/8 bar. ...or, as long as you indicated a tempo change (8th triplet = 8th) you could do that. Probably be the easiest way for conservative musicians to deal with it. Later in the thread I changed my opinion. I said it's a 7/8 bar with a quintuplet spread over 7 8th notes. Probably be the easiest way for conservative musicians to deal with it. I don't think there's such a thing as "conservative musician", it's like Jumbo Shrimp. The best way is the most accurate way. With music like Crumb and Ligeti etc., those boys write some nasty stuff. Fortunately, most of it is confined to "new music ensemble" at the conservatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonksDream Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Off-topic but related: To really analyze this clip, it would be useful to be able to record it from youtube. What's a good option for a streaming-audio recorder software? Anyone got any recommendations? I don't know about audio stream capture but TubeTV will let you capture YouTube, Google TV and other Flash-based video streams. You could then separate out the audio from there if you wanted. Instrumentation is meaningless - a song either stands on its own merit, or it requires bells and whistles to cover its lack of adequacy, much less quality. - kanker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Soundgarden was really great until Down On The Upside. They sounded like a self-caricature at that point, like they'd run out of ideas. +1 I LOVED Superunknown and still think it is probably the best album of the nineties along with OK Computer. I also loved the harder sound of Badmotorfinger. Down On The Upside has some good moments but overall sounds like they had reached a dead end, which is probably why they ended the band. They felt like musically they had exhausted the creative well. Yup, agree with all that. Still, even the weaker side of Soundgarden was better than the stronger stuff of lesser bands of the time. I really liked that band. They were a hell of a lot better than anything else that came out of Seattle at the time (including the band that transplanted to Atlanta to avoid being associated with Seattle grunge, Candlebox) A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roscoe East Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 The best way is the most accurate way. That's only a useful statement if there's one and only one accurate way. If the Soundgarden example is truly a 5:7 tuplet, then yes, that's the best way to notate it. But if it's truly five 8th note triplets in a row (with the implied sixth triplet partial missing) then there's nothing more accurate about writing three 8th notes under a "3" bracket followed by two 8th notes under a "2 of 3" bracket, versus writing a "three 8th note triplets = two 8th notes" tempo change over a 5/8 bar of five 8th notes. Because they're the exact same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarrell Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Elliott Carter used a device (e.g. in his string quartets), known as metric modulation, which could be used to notate this as well. It basically sets up, between two measures, an equivalence between two meters. In this case you would have the bar before the 5 8th note triplets, followed by a bar of 5/8. Above the staff between the two bars would be (in actual music notation which I can't type in): 8th note with a triplet bar over it = 8th note ... maybe a little tough to sight read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogmonkey Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 All these complicated and confusing devices could be avoided if only we had a 6th note instead of a triplet. Why does western music insist on dividing everything by 2 and 4? Because we're square? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Horne Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 All these complicated and confusing devices could be avoided if only we had a 6th note instead of a triplet. Why does western music insist on dividing everything by 2 and 4? Because we're square? You know, there's a shitload of music written in .... 6/8, 9/8 .... and 12/8. No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message. In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 They are quarter-note triplets, I have no doubt about it. Tap triplets as the song leads up to that point, they lock right in. The last quarter-note triplet is the first beat of the next verse. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Ferris Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I'm hearing quarter-note triplets has well. I'll send it over to master odd time sig drummer Ralph Humphrey and see what he says. https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris https://www.youtube.com/@daveferris2709 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Discotheque Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Sounds like quarter-note triplets to me, with an ever-so-slight rit. on the last 2 which seems to be confusing people. I gotta say I don't really understand all the 5/8 and 7/8 talk... seems like 5 quarter-note triplets plain and simple. Now, how to notate that...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrdman Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 It's a 5/8 bar. Conceivably it could be, if you notated a terraced tempo change there. Given that the notes are in time with what would be eighth note triplets, how would you ensure that it's played at that exact relative rate? If it's played slower or faster, it loses at lot of the "looseness" characteristic of the rest of the song (and of Soundgarden's overall style). I suppose you could insert a brief comment in a score about how to count it, but that's what I'm attempting to avoid in this query -- I want to know if there's a single means of notating or counting it that's metrically consistent, should I use that very strange device (or variation thereof) myself. On Jazz charts (for big band) they would write things like dotted crotchet = crotchet (actually as notes though, not in words so that you could tell that it was switching to triplets at exactly the same tempo but writing them as quavers. (crotchet = quarter (of a semibreve!) note, quaver = eighth note for American speakers) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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