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Motif XS and Pro Tools Issue -- need help


DonaldM

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I'm wondering if anyone here is using PT with a Motif XS in their MIDI set-up. I've run into an issue which has proven to be rather frustrating, which I'll attempt to describe.

 

My set-up is PT 7.4cs7 MBox 2 Mini, running on Win XP (home edition) SP3 on a Dell. I have a USB midi connection to my Yamaha Motif XS8 and have the Motif set-up in PT as the main control surface. Until now, all has worked swimmingly. Oh, I also have an ethernet connection from the Motif to my PC for saving and loading voice, song, arp etc files from and to the Motif for back-up and keeping all the various voice banks I have for the Motif. That works fine too.

 

Recently Yamaha released an upgrade to the Motif OS to version 1.51, so I downloaded it from the Yamaha website to install on the Motif. Earlier this week, I was working on a project in PT with a MIDI file arrangement, which I was voicing with various patches off the Motif, in SONG mode. I've done a lot of this, and its worked great. Then, I remembered I had the upgrade so, I saved my work on PT, closed it all down and followed the instructions from Yamaha to upgrade the Motif OS. Everything worked on the Motif, so I re-booted PT and the project I was working on to go back to doing what I had been doing.

 

That's when the issue surfaced. For some reason, as soon as I boot up PT, the Motif gets sluggish. What that means is that there is a 2-6 second lag (yes, I timed it) when I attempt to switch functions on the Motif by hitting any of the many buttons. For example, in SONG mode, I wanted to switch one of the voices on a track, but when I try to call up the voice menu, there's a lag, and when I use the selector wheel, there's a lag. Depending on what function I try to use, the lag can be shorter or longer.

 

The only changed variable is the OS upgrade on the Motif. I've reported this over on the Motifator forum, and I've had a phone call with Yamaha, but so far no one seems to know why this is an issue. Has any here experienced this? Any ideas as to what might be causing the issue?

 

The problem only arises when I boot up PT with Motif. And, as I said, until this latest OS upgrade, this has never been an issue. Any thoughts from anyone?

 

THanks!

 

There are 10 kinds of people in the world...those who can read binary, and those who can't.
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Yamaha US responded to your thread on Motifator.com, however, as is the case in many computer related technical issues, "Party A blames Party B" for the problem. From your posts on Motifator, the problem didn't come up until you upgraded to the latest OS for your XS.

 

I know you posted that you "respectfully disagreed" with Yamaha's assessment, but you should also send them an e-mail on Motifator.com too, so that the next time they log in to Motifator, the e-mail reminder with come to their attention. It's real easy to blow something off and move onto other things when it's thought to be the "other guy's problem".

 

Mike T.

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.

 

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Mike, I'm not blowing anything off. I'm trying to find a solution and need to know if anyone else is having the problem. Not all Motif/PT users show up at Motifator. As I said at Motifator, I'm not blaming Yamaha, but it does seem clear that something in the OS upgrade changed the way the Motif and PT talk to each other. I've also been on the phone with one of thier tech people, and they're baffled, too! Hence, I'm casting a wider net to see if anyone else might have an insight.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world...those who can read binary, and those who can't.
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I meant that it would be easy for YAMAHA to blow it off by blaming it on your computer. I know you're not blowing it off, your system isn't working now, and it was before the upgrade. In general, Yamaha's upgrades have been rock solid, I never had any trouble with firmware upgrades I did on my Motif ES8, but I don't use it with my PC, I like using it as a stand alone workstation.

 

When you deal with their Tech Support people, it's a crap shoot. I'd say that ALL of them are knowledgeable and polite, but let's face it, no one can be an "expert" on everything.

 

Question, did you update your Midi driver? I may have missed it if you did.

 

Mike

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.

 

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Mike, yes, after the phone call, Russ, the Yamaha techie, said to try that. But that didn't change anything. Now I've noticed that even after reverting back to the prior OS, I still have the same issue, which wasn't there before. Its a head scratcher!

 

Stand alone, the OS is fine...its only when I boot up Pro Tools that the issue kicks in. Something in the way the Motif and PT talk to each other in MIDI has changed since the new OS upgrade.

There are 10 kinds of people in the world...those who can read binary, and those who can't.
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Reads like Pro Tools has a problem keeping up with the Motif OS change.

 

Check with Digidesign to see if there is a patch/pgrade in the works. :cool:

PD

 

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"

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Good point Prof, when you upgrade one thing on your system, the other software will probably not run correctly and will also have to be upgraded. Hopefully, this is not going to cost Don $$. But I wouldn't bet on it.

 

 

Mike T.

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.

 

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Reads like Pro Tools has a problem keeping up with the Motif OS change.

 

Check with Digidesign to see if there is a patch/pgrade in the works. :cool:

 

Well I can pretty much guess what Digi will say: "Are you using PT 8.0?" And the answer will be "No, I'm still on PT 7.4cs7 thank you very much". I plan to upgrade to 8.0 in the next month or so, though. And, yes, that will run about $150. But you get quite a bit with that, not the least of which will be the score capability from MIDI tracks. That alone will be worth the cost for me.

 

On the matter at hand, though, it is possible that upgrading to PT8.0 will solve the issue for unknown reasons! Meanwhile, I may have to live with it. It just makes working a bit slower is all.

 

There are 10 kinds of people in the world...those who can read binary, and those who can't.
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Don, that is certainly one of the drawbacks and using a PC to do your sequencing, it keeps costing and costing. I suppose at one point if you get a Yamaha upgrade and the PT software version you are using is "well behaved" with it, you don't have to upgrade anymore. Sometimes you should "let a sleeping dog sleep".

 

 

Mike T.

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.

 

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Don, that is certainly one of the drawbacks and using a PC to do your sequencing, it keeps costing and costing. I suppose at one point if you get a Yamaha upgrade and the PT software version you are using is "well behaved" with it, you don't have to upgrade anymore. Sometimes you should "let a sleeping dog sleep".

 

 

Mike T.

 

Yes, I agree. But I have to say with PT 8.0 it really is a true upgrade in the sense of several major new features that more than justify the cost. That's why I WANT to get it. The response from users is overwhemingly positive. There's new plug-ins, new soft-synths, powerful new upgrade to Xpand, Sibelius version built in to score tracks from Midi, major midi editing capability, and a host of other significant, rather than just cosmetic, changes.

There are 10 kinds of people in the world...those who can read binary, and those who can't.
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Yeah, unlike most Microsoft "cosmetic" changes they have called upgrades. Maybe this whole thing will be solved by upgrading PT. From my experience, Yamaha's Firmware upgrades have been bulletproof. Even their v1.0 OS on my Motif ES8 only had a few minor bugs in it. I've installed several upgrades since then and their OS works great. Maybe Microsoft should try to hire some of their programmers.

 

On the serious side, I sure hope the PT upgrade will take care of any issues you have with your synth.

 

 

Mike T.

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.

 

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Donald,

 

Have you tried disconnecting the USB and plugging it into a different port on the PC? That should cause Windows to reinstall the driver. Also, you could do that by simply deleting the device and reinstalling. Have you tried disabling the Ethernet connection? It almost feels like a feedback loop is happening where the Motif is getting too much data and lagging as a result. Does Yamaha still use that MIDI application that installs in the control panel? I always found it to be one confusing little app. It's supposed to provide MIDI routing options, as I remember. Anyhow, if it's still there maybe it could show you MIDI activity to/from the Motif.

 

PT 8.0 is great and massively worth the $150 but it doesn't sound like Protools is your problem.

 

Busch.

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