Floyd Tatum Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 What are the best Leslie speakers for jazz? 122? 122A? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 If you are using a modern organ like the XK-3c/System as the source, a 3300 / 971 would work well. I've heard Tony Monaco play a Portable B3 through a 3300 and the New B3 MkII through a 971 as well as Jim Alfredson play an XK-3 through a 3300. They all sounded great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Tatum Posted June 15, 2009 Author Share Posted June 15, 2009 This would probably be for an older organ Do most jazz organists prefer a dual-speed leslie, or single-speed? The 3300 and 971 are new, aren't they? What about older, 'classic' leslies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Single speed for jazz. My vote is the classic 122. Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 31H "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 The 122 isn't single speed. Honestly, I don't think it matters. You can change the tone of a Leslie by using different tubes. Old Leslies are just like old Hammonds, they can vary wildly even if they are the same model. Depends on how they were maintained, what tubes are in there, how old the tubes are, if the amp has been reconditioned, etc. I've heard a 3300 on a real B3. Sounded killer. I like the 21H Leslies because they have big bass from those field coil woofers. But I wouldn't want to haul one around; too delicate. Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 If you want stop on a 122, you can just unplug the power for the slow speed A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Single speed for jazz. My vote is the classic 122. My 122 is 2 speed. I didn't know they made a single speed version. "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Tatum Posted June 15, 2009 Author Share Posted June 15, 2009 My 122 is 2 speed. I didn't know they made a single speed version. They didn't - Mate was mistaken. Either that, or we mis-interpreted what he said. The 122 is 2-speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Tatum Posted June 15, 2009 Author Share Posted June 15, 2009 I don't think anyone has really responded to my question about single or dual-speed. Or if you did, I got confused. So, do jazz players generally prefer single or dual speed? Or, do they not have a preference? I think a lot of jazz players use 122's don't they? Which are dual-speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timwat Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 I have a more generic, dumber question - what makes a particular Leslie better or not-so-better for jazz? Is it just single- vs. dual-speed? Or are there other considerations like, I don't know, overall timbre? And are the Speakeasy boxes better or worse for some particular genre? And what about the Motion Sound units (the rotating ones)? You can tell I haven't spent a lot of time with real units... .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B3bluesman59 Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 The single speed Leslie is the 21H. The 122 came out with two speeds and the 21H was discontinued. I have owned both models. The 21H has a mellower tone and much better bass response than the 122 because of better quality heavier wood used in the cabinet. If you like your tone warmer and with great bass response go with the 21H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B3_borne Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Most jazz players I've heard, R. Scott, B. Dennerlein, Joey D, Tony M. all seem to use 2 speeds (122)and some have a brake installed. SK2 /w Mini Vent / XK3 Pro System /w 142 Leslie, Roland D70, Korg SP250 B3 1959 (retired) , Porta B (retired), XB2 (retired) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 The classic Jimmy Smith stuff that defined the jazz Hammond sound was played through a single speed Leslie. I like having stop for a variety of applications, particularly jazz and southern soul. A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrokeys Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Joey D likes to use stop and fast and only every so often uses the chorale slow speed. Southern soul-the Memphis sound, was actually a compromise. Only the lower rotor slow motor was unplugged so that the bass had a bit more presence. With my C3 and 251 combination, I always used both chorale and tremolo but since the 21 system has the brake function, on gigs these days I use both speeds and stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 JSouthern soul-the Memphis sound, was actually a compromise. Only the lower rotor slow motor was unplugged so that the bass had a bit more presence.That really depends on the recording, the label, the era, all that stuff. There's a whole lot of southern soul from outside of Memphis too... A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrokeys Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 True enough, and I grew up playing it north of the border in Kentucky (I guess that's still southern) during the 60's and 70's. For me though, southern soul organ meant Booker T and that's the way he ran at least the times I saw him. The best part of all of this is, of course, to experiment. Doesn't take much to plug the motors back in if the sound doesn't please you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 I'm a little further north of the border A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrokeys Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 By 1977 so was I. Indiana U. God love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 My 122 is 2 speed. I didn't know they made a single speed version. They didn't - Mate was mistaken. Either that, or we mis-interpreted what he said. The 122 is 2-speed. Sorry for the confusion. I like single speed sometimes and double speed sometimes. 122 is the best leslie ever made, so that's what I would carry - either unplugging the slow motors for single speed, or wiring it to control them from the console. Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Tatum Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 122 is the best leslie ever made, so that's what I would carry - either unplugging the slow motors for single speed, or wiring it to control them from the console. Thanks for all the great info, everyone. Ok, sorry if this is a dumb question, but this is somewhat new to me: so, do some some leslies come with all three options: fast/slow/brake? And, is brake the same think as stop on a 1-speed? And, so, people that have a 122 with just fast & slow, they can either a) unplug the slow motor so that essentially have fast and stop, or b) modify the leslie to have a brake installed that can be controlled from the console, thereby giving them fast/slow/brake? Am I summing it up correctly? What about people that have a one-speed leslie, is there any option for them to have a second speed installed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoodyBluesKeys Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Goff Professional makes a conversion kit to add slow speed to single speed Leslies. Hamptone Electronics makes a conversion kit that gives fast/slow/stop with multiple possible slow speeds (and does not add additional motors). Speakeasy also markets a two-speed conversion kit. Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 The other important question is how loud are the other musicians going to be? A 122 is only a 40w Leslie. A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 The 122 is the best Leslie ever made? Hmmm.... not sure if I agree. I actually prefer a 21H most times when put against a 122. But like everything music, it's all subjective. I think the biggest factor is the kind of organ you're using and like kanker said, the context. An older tube Leslie is vastly underpowered for today's stages. Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Amen. I used to gig with this itty bitty Leslie 860 with 12" low rotor that eats my 122 alive. I still use the 860 sometimes. It rolls straight into the back of my Taraus wagon. My 122 isn't loud enough for rock 'n' roll or the blues band I gig with. I think the new Leslies H-S is selling today kick the old Leslie's rear ends. But, I'm a piano player that has been trying play organ for the last 35 years. If I was a real organist maybe I would feel differently. I would buy a brand new 3300 before I would pay what people are asking for these old 122s. but that is just me. "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 The 122 is the best Leslie ever made? Hmmm.... not sure if I agree. I actually prefer a 21H most times when put against a 122. But like everything music, it's all subjective. I think the biggest factor is the kind of organ you're using and like kanker said, the context. An older tube Leslie is vastly underpowered for today's stages. True. I prefer the 122 because it has more power than the 21H, and because it already has slow motors. But some guys swear by the bass response of a tallboy, and won't use anything else. As to the power: yes, 40W is underpowered for today's stages, but at least it is 40 tube watts, which is a lot louder than 40 solid state watts. Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 I think the new Leslies H-S is selling today kick the old Leslie's rear ends. But, I'm a piano player that has been trying play organ for the last 35 years. If I was a real organist maybe I would feel differently. I would buy a brand new 3300 before I would pay what people are asking for these old 122s. but that is just me. I haven't heard the 3300, but I'm sure it's great since a lot of folks I respect like them. I don't have much use for a 122XA or B though. Why bother - just get an old one which is better built, and has much better motors. Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threadslayer Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I'm always surprised in discussions like this that no one mentions the 145. It's always all about the 122. I had both and always thought the 145 sounded much warmer and fatter than the 122 Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I have a 1966 and 1971 Leslie 145. One is plywood shelves and the 1971 has particleboard. They are cool but made for the home spinet market. The 122,142 was made really for the 3 series organs. "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I think the new Leslies H-S is selling today kick the old Leslie's rear ends. But, I'm a piano player that has been trying play organ for the last 35 years. If I was a real organist maybe I would feel differently. I would buy a brand new 3300 before I would pay what people are asking for these old 122s. but that is just me. I haven't heard the 3300, but I'm sure it's great since a lot of folks I respect like them. I don't have much use for a 122XA or B though. Why bother - just get an old one which is better built, and has much better motors. Yes the new 122s have like a $3200 list and are still under powered. I would be curious to hear some of the new solid state wooden cabinet leslies. They are making configuration that have 400-watt of output now. Those might be multi-channel setups where the power is divided by a bunch of amps. I had an HL722 that was like that. 210 watts ... yeah If you add the two rotary amps and and all the stationary channels together. The 3300 kicks butt. "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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