PowerBook/iBook and Logic Audio w/motu 828

[captain54]

I'd say pretty much, the mac gurus on this forum have provided me with Mac info like no other, and I need it since I'm a soon to be Mac convert coming from the land of PC... Translation: Pretty new to the mac world, need advice From a thread not too long ago, I take it some good mac portable or semi portable choices for audio with a budget around $1000 are: Pismo Wallstreet (not the 233) Lombard lst generation iBook new iMac Given the above choices, what would be the best unit to run the 828, external firewire HD, USB midi, and USB external CDR-W?? Taking it further, would the emagic 2/6 USB audio interface be a better idea since my goal is to run Logic Audio, 24-30 tracks tops?? I've heard from a few that the 828 chokes out when CPU usages hits 60%-70%.... Am I on the right track here overall??? Peace

[Beagle1]

<> I recommend saving up for one of the new 600MHZ iBooks with built-in CD-RW ($1599). For only $600 more you're getting a machine that is way, way, way better than any of the older laptops you mentioned. You also asked about the Emagic EMI 2|6...I use it with Logic on my Ti G4 and it's a great little box. I love that it draws it's power from the USB bus so no external power supply required. The only drawback to the 2|6 is that you can only record two channels at a time. If you require more simultaneous inputs you'll have to go with the 828 or something else (e.g. Metric Halo).

[captain54]

Interesting.....No, simultaneous inputs are not that critical to me so I guess the the emi2/6 is a possiblity.... on another forum someone was bitching about the RCA connectors and the fact that he couldnt record and playback simultaneously at 24bit....a warranted complaint??? As far as the new iBook, could you elaborate sir, as to why this is such a vast improvement over the higher end, older powerbooks??

[soapbox]

[b]captain54[/b], if you need to get something right away, I would recommend a new iMac because of the extra CPU power and larger display size. If you can wait for two months, you'll very likely get a much better deal after the MacWorld keynote on January 8th. On that day, Steve Jobs should announce new Macs. You'll then have the option to either buy the Macs you now have your eye on for cheaper prices or get something even more powerful for the price you are now willing to pay. Good luck, Geoff

[timobrien]

soapbox is right on that one.... new macs are almost always announced at January Macworld and the closer you get to that date, the more you should just wait a little bit. Spectacular new macs always hit the prices on current hardware hard.... the hard-core "gotta have the newest" crowds can create some great deals on stuff they no longer find interesting.

[Beagle1]

<> Yes, EMI does have RCA connectors. A bit of a hassle but I can deal with it given the physical size of the unit, etc. It also *cannot* do simultaneous 24-bit record and playback. It is 24-bit capable but 24-bit mode can only be active for either recording or playback, not both (you select this in the EMI settings). I wish Emagic would update the drivers to allow 24-bit mode on both record and playback if you're only using two of the six outputs (if it's possible; may not be due to USB data transfer speeds). <> New iBooks have 600MHZ G3 processor with 100MHZ system bus, plus L2 cache runs at full processor speed. I used to have a 400MHZ Pismo and the new iBooks will easily out-perform that machine, let alone a Lombard or Wallstreet. Also, there is the option of the built-in CD-RW and much larger hard drive capacities. Build quality is more solid than the G3 Powerbooks. And even though the new iBook display is 12.1 inch compared to 14 inch on the G3 Powerbooks, they all have a max display resolution of 1024 x 768. I agree with the others that if an iMac is an option, you may want to wait until MacWorld SF in early January. The new iMacs may be running at speeds up to 1GHZ and the older 600 and 700 MHZ iMacs (already pretty zippy) will be deeply discounted. But if you need a laptop, you won't find a better machine for the money than the new iBook.

[offramp]

I might suggest that it's all a matter of need and priority. I bought a Pismo in April. I run DECK 3.0 on it, and it runs just fine. Big advantage? I have TWO firewire ports and TWO USB ports, unlike the new machines; resolution may be great, but a bigger screen is easier to look at, period. I also run a flat-panel monitor from the machine, giving me two work surfaces to play with. Biggest advantage? I run OS 9.2.1; since the number of developers who are OSX compliant are still relatively few, and OSX seems to really be a headache for the people who jumped on the bandwagon at the start. Sure the new machines can do twice as much, run twice as fast, etc., but there seems to be twice the number of extension conflicts and errors so far, at least until the softwares mature. The 828 would be a great choice, despite the fact that it only has two XLR inputs. I get around this by using a Mackie 1402 VLZPro for the other six 1/4" inputs. I get mic preamps that way, and some extra levels of control.

[captain54]

Some great points made all..thank you...excellent as usual My need is not pro par excellance....simply a project studio with v-drums, for demos and overdubs....I may be inclined to do some internet on it too....need to take projects from other studios and overdub, mostly drums and percussion...of course, everyone's on a Mac and I'm the only dumb ass on a PC, hence the switch.... Also, I'm not a computer guy...the PC was too much ****ing around..hopefully the Mac will eliminate that..but we'll see.. I did see a deal that is almost too hard to pass up...an iMac 400se DV, 13gig, 2 firewire, 2 Usb,DVD for $600..ram is so cheap for another $50 I'd have 384MB...Maybe I should pick up this bad boy and see how far I can push this sucker...if it pukes out, I'll probably follow the advice of waiting until after the first of 2002 and see if I can pick up a good iBook for around $1000...

[Nawledge]

where did you see that pismo deal?

[Faeflora]

Discontinued macs deeply discounted? HAH! A brand new G4 400 desktop system costs over $1200 from most dealers! And it's an OLD G4! Bah

[Groovepusher Sly]

captian54, Congradulations on steppin' UP to a Mac! Remember that if you start missing PC Hell a little, you can always run Windows on your Mac with Virtual PC. If portability is not a must, then g for the iMac. Macs are easier to use, but it's still a computer, remember that and don't get frustrated if you run into a snag, just take your time and work through it. I prefer the 828 and DP, so check it out. And you know you can always come to these forums for help. Good luck, Sly :cool:

[profesrgeo]

Arrrgghhh me Captain, Welcome to thee dark side... Check out [url=http://www.powermax.com]www.powermax.com[/url] for ibook 500 for $1199 or go to [url=http://www.go2mac.com/powerpage/]www.go2mac.com/powerpage/[/url] for some additional research. I am your built-in tech support... geo

[captain54]

Hey thanks Prof!!!! As my PC world becomes slowly dismantled, I wax nostalgic on the many nights alone with DMA and Vcache, Irq conflicts and fights between my LPT1 and Com Ports.... as we speak my PC dongle is being shipped off to Emagic USA in Grass Valley, CA in exchange for the Mac version....<<<<>>>>><<<>>>>> I'm probably going to give this iMacSE DV a go...very cheap used machine and too hard to pass up....Going to try to run Logic Audio Platinum, EXS-24, EVP88, and an Emagic MT4 USB interface and the the USB Emagic Audio Interface, EMI 2/6.. down the road going to go external firewire CD-RW and external firewire hardrive....yes?? no??? another question....this machine only has OS 8.6...Logic Audio 5.0 will support OS X in January 2002, if and when it comes out...for the time being, I was going to try OS 9.2.1, seeing that seems to be the most stable I've heard with the peripherals I'm trying to run.... Do I need to purchase 9.2.1, or should I just go with OS X and wait until early Jan. 2002 for Logic 5.0??

[Groovepusher Sly]

Go with OS 9 for now. Sly :cool:

[profesrgeo]

Yo Captain, Sounds lke a sound plan. We use firewire drives and burners at my office to handle our animation/multimedia stuff. As far as OS choice, rely on others with experience in Logic on the Mac. I run 8.6 on my powerbook and its rock solid (well except for that minor glitch last week), but I only run Alsihad. One bit of advice... If you plan to do other computer stuff with the imac, (internet, graphics, word prossessing etc..) partition you hard drive and install an "audio only" system on one partition. This should only include the recommended and or minimal extension set/software necessary to run your audio and midi rig. Install the other stuff on the other partition with a separate system folder. When working with audio/midi boot off the "audio" partition, when working on non audio/midi boot off the other partition. This will minimize headaches and keep your life simple. O.K., one other bit of advice, Before installing any audio/midi software, visit the manufacturer's web site and download the most recent or recommended driver software (if any is needed) for the OS in question. Many times the drivers that ship with the software have been updated. If you want, I'd be happy to help with the installation and/or any troubleshooting. Best o'luck geo

[Beagle1]

<> OS X--the new 10.1 version--actually runs pretty well on those 400MHZ iMac DV SE models. Just make sure you stuff a lot of RAM into it (256MB or more) as RAM is still pretty cheap these days and OS X performs better with lots of RAM. If the iMac comes with OS 8.6, you're probably just better off buying the complete OS X version 10.1 install kit, which also includes OS 9.2.1. I definitely recommend OS 9.04 or later if you're planning to do anything with USB.

[offramp]

I'm having plenty of success with 9.2.1 on the Pismo. OS X still has a long way to go in terms of software geared for it, so it'll be a year or so before I go to it. If you go with the iMac DV SE deal, make sure you back up your OS 8.6 on a CD somewhere, the go ahead and get a disc of OS 10.1, and install the 9.2.1 software from it (don't use 10.1 yet). Go to Apple's website and download all of the firmware updates for that machine, make sure they're installed. Once you install 10.1 on a machine, you essentially can't go back, because it performs firmware changes that are permanent. As far as partioning goes: IMHO, always. But, what I do (fwiw) is create a partition for JUST the OS, and leave the rest of the drive for applications, then use an external drive for all audio capture. In any case, you can have a smoother running machine if you determine what extensions you'll need to run your audio software, then build an extension set based on that, and use it; for example, when you install 9.2.1, you'll get something called Airport, which is a way for laptops to share files, etc. back and forth between it and a desktop. You won't need it, 'cause you won't be doing that and I don't think those machines have an Airport port built into them, anyhoo. SO, either don't install it or turn off the extensions for it. That sort of thing. p.s. If you end up unhappy with the DV, let me know. I might be willing to give it a home if you don't want it.

[Beagle1]

<> It is advisable to do the Apple firmware upgrades before installing OS X (the firmware upgrades are included on the 9.2.1 CD)...but installing OS X actually does nothing to your firmware. You can certainly install X and if you don't like it, just use Drive Setup to erase the hard disk and install OS 9. Or better yet, when you set up the iMac, use Drive Setup to create 2 or more partitions: one partition for OS X, and a second partition with OS 9. It is very easy to switch between the two OS's--either through the Startup Disk control panel, or hold down 'option' key at startup.

[Nawledge]

don't mean to be funny Cap, but after reading all these post looks to me like you could be right back where you started, no offense to mac users, but you see they are better at marketing than pc users, but now that your dongle is in the mail you can see that the advice sounds alot like what you'd get from pc users, so I guess there really is'nt that much difference after all, but then again with winxp and it's crash proof ability i'm not so sure. but good luck, i'm walking the fine line of the same decision myself.

[Groovepusher Sly]

Noooo, it's not just marketing, I have way more hair than some of my PC friends. Plus Macs talk to you in english not computerese. Sly

[captain54]

So far I gather: 1)Better to partition the drive into audio and non-audio divisions, booting to the audio division when performing an audio app...even better then to record then to another seperate external drive... 2)Purchase OS X, but only install 9.2.1, as least until the software software (Logic Audio) and all the peripherals support OS X..When I do finally install OS X, I will already have all the firmware updates included with OS 9.2.1... Another potential roadblock I've encountered is the USB issue...some feedback from the forums suggest a dedicated USB port for a few peripherals, namely the dongle and the audio interface I plan to use....now what do I do with my USB printer and USB midi interface, since the iMac400 SE DV only have two USB ports?? I hear ya, Nawledge.... I took me a long while to get my PC stable, stable at least enough to record a decent amount of tracks and burn CD's... I really don't look forward to getting another system stable, but I've decided if its too much bullshit I'm going to shit can the whole thing and go in a different direction.... I had a 7300 PowerMac a while ago with Digital Performer and it ran damn smooth, so I kinda baseing my current decision on that.. The other thing is compatibility....most of the people I know swear by Macs, and its tough to collaborate with the current setup I have...two different languages...and also the argument of all the cooler software being available for only PC users is becoming a thing of the past.... Hopefully, it will all work out, but I'm not going to get crazy over it...

[Beagle1]

<> Yeah, you will have to use a USB hub to get everything hooked up. Get a Belkin USB hub--I have one that can be powered either throught the USB bus or through the external power supply. In addition, the USB keyboard for the iMac functions as a sort of mini-hub. With that mind you can do the following: --Plug USB mouse and Logic USB dongle into the Apple USB keyboard. --Plug USB keyboard, USB MIDI interface, printer, Zip drive or any other USB peripherals into the USB hub. Use the external power supply for the USB hub. --Plug the EMI 2|6 into USB port 1 on the iMac, and plug the USB hub into USB port 2 on the iMac. The reason for doing things this way is that EMI likes to draw its power through the USB bus, but if you hook up lots of other things that draw power from the USB bus, then the EMI won't have enough power to draw from. If you set things up as described above, the EMI gets power from one of the dedicated USB ports on the iMac, and the rest of the USB stuff goes through the USB hub. This setup has worked fine on both my PBG4 and my Dual 800.

[captain54]

[quote]Originally posted by tthoyt@hotmail.com: [b]Get a Belkin USB hub--I have one that can be powered either throught the USB bus or through the external power supply.[/b][/quote] So are you saying you use the Belkin mainly with the external power supply or without?? Sounds like you've saved me from a lot of headaches, thank you kindly...

[Beagle1]

I use the Belkin *with* the external power supply (partly because the Emagic MT4 also draws its power from the USB bus). But it is nice to have the option NOT to use the power supply, too. Good luck with everything!

[offramp]

tthoyt, you have a pont about OS X and the firmware; I may stand corrected, but it's been my STRONG understanding from some of the discussion forums at Apple, et al., that trying to revert back to any 9 OS after 10 is virtually impossible, and the impression I got was that it was largely due to firmware issues. I may have misunderstood. nawledge: point taken, and you're not far off. Any system is a full-time job in and of itself, PC or Mac; it's just that a Mac system is significantly easier to troubleshoot because of the more intuitive arrangement of system essentials and nomencalture. I've tried working with a PC...I really have...and the damned things speak so much uneccessary tech talk using mysterious labelling and logic that I end up hitting the power button and doing something more fun, like cleaning the kitchen. It's not that I don't like PC's, it's just that the approach to configuration and use is so un-intuitive and sidesteps the real reason for having a computer, which is to USE it in the first place. Some complain about Apple being a closed-source, turnkey system with relatively few options; myself, I'm rather glad for that, because I've seen what having multiple, wide-ranging choices for hardware and software vendors can do to a person with the potential for huge incompatibilities and infighting amongst 3rd party suppliers. I actually have the time to have FUN with my computer, which is what you're supposed to be able to do in the first place, and I thank Apple for that. And once captain54 gets adjusted to the language and nomenclature of Apple, he/she'll start having more FUN.

[Beagle1]

Hey Offramp, The way OS X and OS 9 live on the same partition can be a little confusing at first...yes, if you have OS 9 on a partition and then install OS X on it, I don't think you can easily remove OS X from that partition and go back to having just OS 9. However, you can choose between booting from OS 9 and OS X on the same partition, or you can simply erase the partition and reinstall OS 9, or OS X, or both. I have done this many times on several different Mac systems (G4's, Powerbooks, iMacs, etc). To my knowledge, installing OS X does nothing to the Mac's firmware. Where some people may get confused is that I think OS X requires a certain firmware version (March 2001 firmware upgrades or later) in order to operate well on pre-2001 Macs (2001 Macs already have an adequate firmware version for X). And once you update the firmware then yes, there is no going back to the earlier firmware version, but you probably wouldn't want to anyway as the firmware updates have generally brought improvements to Firewire and USB bus issues. Hope this helps!