ian1642605905 Posted August 3, 2001 Share Posted August 3, 2001 This may be a remedial question and I do feel stupid even asking but I gotta! I have an 8 mic line mixer that I use to sub mix drums in my home studio.I recently purchased a condenser mic for an overhead cymbal mic. My question is:When I run phantom power for the condenser will it adversely effect performance of my dynamic mics or damage them in any way? Silly question...but I've got too much invested in my mics to risk screwing them up at a flip of a switch! thanks ahead of time! ian* ian* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 3, 2001 Share Posted August 3, 2001 Note: In this post I am assuming that the mixer is designed to send phantom to all jacks or none. If the mixer can send phantom on a channel per channel basis, you have nothing to worry about. This is, in my opinion, a very good question. The answer is a very definite, absolutely positive maybe. Another engineer that I know found that an AKG D112 (kick drum mic, well known in the industry, moving coil dynamic) would slowly die if you kept applying phantom power to it. It didn't happen all at once, but it did happen. That's on one hand. On another hand, I haven't heard of any other moving coil dynamic slowly turning to dust if phantom power is applied to it. (Although it could be that they are being damaged, again, slowly.) Now, here's the big flashing warning sign: DO NOT under any circumstances send phantom power to a dynamic RIBBON mic. The ribbon will be blasted to smithereens instantly. This has to be said because a ribbon mic is also considered a dynamic, but unlike a lot of moving coil dynamic mics that can be run over by a truck and still function, a ribbon mic is very fragile. -Danny ------------------ Of all the things that I have lost, I miss my mind the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian1642605905 Posted August 3, 2001 Author Share Posted August 3, 2001 My dynamic mics are Shure Beta52,SM57 and AT PRO25's.My condenser is an SM94...Would I be better off powering the SM94 w/battery power?I know that some SPL handling capability will be lost but I certainly don't want to ruin my dynamics!I don't understand why any mixer wouldn't have the phantom power assignable to specific channels! If there is a way I'd like to know!My mixer is a Berhinger 2004A! appreciate the input! ian* ian* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 3, 2001 Share Posted August 3, 2001 [quote]Would I be better off powering the SM94 w/battery power?I know that some SPL handling capability will be lost but I certainly don't want to ruin my dynamics![/quote] To be absolutely safe, I would go the battery power route. (You could also try to find an outboard phantom power supply.) Again, it seems that most dynamics don't really care about phantom power, but D112's seem to dislike it. From that, one might infer that other dynamics could have an adverse reaction. Note: As I wasn't perfectly sure, I went and did a little research on the web. Most folks say that there's no danger whatsoever, as long as you're not using a ribbon mic. However, I still need to point out the D112 example... [quote]I don't understand why any mixer wouldn't have the phantom power assignable to specific channels![/quote] It's a money issue. To make a low cost console, a manufacturer has to make compromises. It costs more money to make phantom power deliverable on a channel per channel basis than to just have one switch for everything. -Danny ------------------ Of all the things that I have lost, I miss my mind the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian1642605905 Posted August 3, 2001 Author Share Posted August 3, 2001 Thanks Danny......You the man!!!! ian* ian* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sign Posted August 4, 2001 Share Posted August 4, 2001 Yo Ian* On top of the page you see a little word 'search', click on it. Next type "phantom power' and search on all the forums. You will find 78 matches, go for it! Good luck [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Peace. The alchemy of the masters moving molecules of air, we capture by moving particles of iron, so that the poetry of the ancients will echo into the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralf Posted August 4, 2001 Share Posted August 4, 2001 It should also be noted that if your dynamic mics are conected in an unbalanced fashion (don´t know why, but IF), like XLR to TS, and the phantom is turned on, the unbalanced mics will pop and die. Ralf Rock and Roll Aint Noise Pollution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted August 4, 2001 Share Posted August 4, 2001 [quote]Originally posted by Ralf: [b]It should also be noted that if your dynamic mics are conected in an unbalanced fashion (don´t know why, but IF), like XLR to TS, and the phantom is turned on, the unbalanced mics will pop and die. Ralf[/b][/quote] This is because you just sent the phantom power directly to the diaphragm as a DC signal. A balanced, low impedance dynamic shouldn't even SEE the phantom power. Your mics should be fine so long as you're not using ribbons. Also, many inexpensive mixers only supply a fraction of 48v power through phantom. You may not be losing any performance by using a battery powered phantom supply box. Hope you found some of the other threads on this subject. Some REAL know-it-alls with electronic circuit knowledge have spoken up regarding phantom power and dynamics. ------------------ Neil [b]Reality[/b]: [i]A few moments of lucidity surrounded by insanity.[/i] It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralf Posted August 4, 2001 Share Posted August 4, 2001 [quote]Originally posted by fantasticsound: [b] This is because you just sent the phantom power directly to the diaphragm as a DC signal. A balanced, low impedance dynamic shouldn't even SEE the phantom power. Your mics should be fine so long as you're not using ribbons. [/b][/quote] Yup! Cheers on the more complete answer [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Rock and Roll Aint Noise Pollution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian1642605905 Posted August 4, 2001 Author Share Posted August 4, 2001 WOW! Nice to know thanks!!!! ian* ian* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duhduh Posted August 4, 2001 Share Posted August 4, 2001 Yeah, I blew out a D-112 with phantom power. Luckily it was still under warranty, so I just went and got a new one. Whew! It took a have a dozen times to blow it, though. "Meat is the only thing you need beside beer! Big hunks of meat and BEER!!...Lots of freakin' BEER." "Hey, I'm not Jesus Christ, I can't turn water into wine. The best I can do is turn beer into urine." Zakk Wylde http://www.hepcnet.net/bbssmilies/super.gif http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15_1_109.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian1642605905 Posted August 4, 2001 Author Share Posted August 4, 2001 Is the D112 wired differently than other dynamic mics?I've been told from several reliable sources from several forums that phantom power doesn't affect dynamic mics at all!I wonder if the D112 has an engineering flaw? Good thing "I" don't own one! ian* ian* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted August 4, 2001 Share Posted August 4, 2001 Uhhh.... how do you guys know for sure that your D112's were blown specifically by phantom power? How can you be sure they weren't blown out by say, a hardcore drummer pumping a couple of hundred dB SPL into it? [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Or maybe tossing it against a wall after a session? [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img] I am not a fan of the D112 anyway, but I have NEVER heard of or experienced a balanced, low impedance dynamic mic being bothered by phantom power. Ribbons and cheap unbalanced mics are the only kinds that are damaged by it so far as I've ever seen. Don't know what the deal is there. --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duhduh Posted August 4, 2001 Share Posted August 4, 2001 Well, I heard that a bad cable can cause the 48v to actually travel to the mic. "Meat is the only thing you need beside beer! Big hunks of meat and BEER!!...Lots of freakin' BEER." "Hey, I'm not Jesus Christ, I can't turn water into wine. The best I can do is turn beer into urine." Zakk Wylde http://www.hepcnet.net/bbssmilies/super.gif http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15_1_109.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 4, 2001 Share Posted August 4, 2001 [quote]Uhhh.... how do you guys know for sure that your D112's were blown specifically by phantom power? How can you be sure they weren't blown out by say, a hardcore drummer pumping a couple of hundred dB SPL into it? Or maybe tossing it against a wall after a session?[/quote] I'm quite sure. Although that particular mic saw a fair amount of action inside kick drums, it was the only D112 he's allowed to come into contact with phantom. The next one is (as far as I know) under the same use and holding up well. Of course, there's no scientific method involved here, but I (for one) would be unwilling to risk blowing up a $300 kick drum mic just to know conclusively. Again, like everyone else, I've never heard of another balanced moving coil dynamic having a problem if everything's working correctly. However, just for safety's sake (in case a cable gets shorted, someone swaps a mic for another device without telling you, etc) I would say that applying phantom power to things that don't need it should be avoided if possible. -Danny ------------------ Of all the things that I have lost, I miss my mind the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted August 4, 2001 Share Posted August 4, 2001 [quote]Originally posted by Duhduh: [b]Well, I heard that a bad cable can cause the 48v to actually travel to the mic.[/b][/quote] That would be because the shield and one conductor came into contact. Again, this would send the phantom to the diaphragm in DC and Whoosh! Goodbye diaphragm! As to the D112, there is NO reason a D112 will be hurt by phantom power unless: [list] [*]The Mic is defective/has a defective circuit. (Very possible in your case.) [*]The mic cable is defective. (Equally possible in your case.)[/list] Either way, jumping to conclusions that the phantom power was responsible, OVER TIME, for destroying this mic is unrealalistic. Phantom runs between 9v and 52v DC. ANY phantom power sent, even momentarily, to the wrong pins would be far more DC than any dynamic mic diaphragm could handle. Like running an 18 wheeler through a styrofoam wall, Danny. If neither the mic nor the cable was defective, something else destroyed that mic. Ask an electrical tech. There are plenty of them posting here. That said, there has been a LOT of talk about inexpensive phantom power supply's adding noise to recordings, but I know absolutely nothing about this. It's never been a problem for me. ------------------ Neil [b]Reality[/b]: [i]A few moments of lucidity surrounded by insanity.[/i] It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S_Gould Posted August 5, 2001 Share Posted August 5, 2001 I think that most phantom power related dynamic mic failures (I've seen a few, not MY mics) come from plugging in the mic/cable while the phantom power is on. Unless pins 2 & 3 connect at EXACTLY the same instant, you get a nice diaphragm excursion test... Scott This message has been edited by S_Gould on 08-04-2001 at 08:26 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian1642605905 Posted August 5, 2001 Author Share Posted August 5, 2001 Thanks again!I'm glad I posted the question after all!There's a lot to know about protecting your gear from mishaps! I guess one shouldn't get in a hurry and make stupid, costly mistakes huh! ian* ian* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted August 5, 2001 Share Posted August 5, 2001 [quote]Originally posted by S_Gould: [b]I think that most phantom power related dynamic mic failures (I've seen a few, not MY mics) come from plugging in the mic/cable while the phantom power is on. Unless pins 2 & 3 connect at EXACTLY the same instant, you get a nice diaphragm excursion test... Scott[/b][/quote] Excellent point. ------------------ Neil [b]Reality[/b]: [i]A few moments of lucidity surrounded by insanity.[/i] It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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