Songwriting rituals

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As I've mentioned in a couple of recent posts, I've been in a songwriting mode lately. I've noticed that there's almost a ritual to the way I write. Usually... Before I start, if I'm tired, I'll eat something with tons of carbohydrates in it. I'm more comfortable writing while sitting on the floor. Gotta have a dictionary, thesarus, and rhyming dictionary on the floor too. Can't write well on an electric guitar -- gotta use my acoustic. Gotta have my Casio SK-1 plugged in and on the floor too. Lots of paper everywhere... I don't like writing in notebooks -- gotta write on unlined paper on a clipboard. There's probably more things that I do before writing a song, but what do *you* do? [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

[David R.]

Break up with my girlfriend. The songs write themselves. -David R.

[ricknbokker]

Yo Pop!! Makin' a mess of the place, are ya??! Try this. Go away. Outside. Leave all the books at home. (you can use them later) I don't know how long you've been doing things this way, but if I were you, I would do my best to not get 'locked into' one method of songwriting. I'm serious. I've had more than my share of 'dry spells' in my 25 years of writing and arranging, and when the usual things didn't work, I got frustrated as hell. Sread yourself out, brother...it does a body good! Oh, yeah...the question...anywhere and everywhere- as long as I have a pencil with an eraser. Steve (sharpening...)

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[quote]Originally posted by ricknbokker: [b]I don't know how long you've been doing things this way, but if I were you, I would do my best to not get 'locked into' one method of songwriting. [/b][/quote] Nah -- I don't think I'm locked into one method of writing... If anything, my habits have changed a lot over the years, and I'm always willing to try new things. However, there are certain things which make me feel comfortable when writing, like having as little technology as possible between my ideas and whatever medium I'm recording on. I'm a big believer in the idea that writers and musicians can do their best work only if they're comfortable with their environment. I figure there's probably a number of people out there who have certain habits (beer?) which make them comfortable when writing. I'm curious to know what those habits are. [quote]Originally posted by ricknbokker: [b]I've had more than my share of 'dry spells' in my 25 years of writing and arranging, and when the usual things didn't work, I got frustrated as hell. [/b][/quote] I'm lucky in the sense that I don't think I've ever had a creative dry spell when writing -- I've only written bad songs. [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] This message has been edited by popmusic on 08-02-2001 at 09:10 PM

[D. Gauss]

[quote]Originally posted by popmusic: [b] I'm lucky in the sense that I don't think I've ever had a creative dry spell when writing -- I've only written bad songs. [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img][/b][/quote] LOL! -d. gauss

[Tedster]

HAHAHA... Last night we had band rehearsal for our gig at the Roxy here in KC (tomorrow night...shameless plug)... After rehearsal, I went into the head to take a leak. Something popped into my head and I came out singing it to the rest of the band. Wrote it down...they started harmonizing. When I got home, the rest of the melody, etc. fell in my lap instantaneously. Now, all I have to do is the rest of the lyrics, which sucks for me. So far, so cool...

[Senator]

[quote]Originally posted by dxr@iname.com: [b]Break up with my girlfriend. The songs write themselves. -David R.[/b][/quote] I had a massive passage planned but that's perfect.

[strat0124]

I can't seperate the personal from the music....it's one in the same for me. Even when it's a silly insidious ditty...there's something about my life experience in there. My wife says that my music is my autobiography, and you can see the phases in the twenty years of tape I have stored away. The best songs I've ever written came to me in like five minutes......the ones I've labored over, usually sound like it. I hear the riff and melody first, and words usually fall around it, around that emotion. Or I'll get a hook in my head with a great line I'd like to use and build it around that. I can't tell you how many "hit" songs I've lost, because I didn't write it down, or record an idea immediately. : ) Having the home studio helps tremendously, but life does get in the way.

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[quote]Originally posted by strat0124: [b]I can't seperate the personal from the music....it's one in the same for me. Even when it's a silly insidious ditty...there's something about my life experience in there.[/b][/quote] I can separate the personal from music (I've written stuff that doesn't have any of my life experiences in it -- like music for local commercials, corporate training videos, a video game, etc.)... However, the things I've written that I like the most is the stuff where I have a personal connection to it, no matter how slight. I had a really weird nightmare last week, and some of the dialogue from my dream worked its way into a chorus I wrote a few days later. I have no idea what the heck the words mean, and I usually avoid writing nonsense lyrics, but because there's a personal connection, the music and lyrics just feel [i]right[/i] to me. It's like, I believe in the lyrics because they ring true to me... Even if they're nonsense. And believing in what you're writing is really important -- in my case, that's why so many songs get thrown away. Maybe this topic is veering away from my original intention -- which was to find out the things (or superstitions) that make you comfortable when writing. But hey -- if everyone would rather talk about personal life experiences influencing (or not influencing) their songwriting, that's cool too... I always enjoy hearing how other people do it. (Songwriting, that is! [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] ) This message has been edited by popmusic on 08-03-2001 at 09:54 AM

[D. Gauss]

<> well if you must know, my songwriting ritual is along the lines of the ancient voodoo "path of animalism" vampire ritual. remember this is my method, not necessarily everyone else's, i.e. some songwriters achieve great results without ever having sacrificed a live chicken or goat to the song gods! the steps are as follows: 1) Sweet Whispers 2) The Beckoning 3) Song of Serenity 4) Sharing of Spirits 5) Drawing Out the Beast then of course there is a lot of mopping up, slaughtered chicken/goat disposal, and general cleanup afterwards, followed by intense celebration! -d. gauss

[strat0124]

[quote]Originally posted by d gauss: [b]<> well if you must know, my songwriting ritual is along the lines of the ancient voodoo "path of animalism" vampire ritual. remember this is my method, not necessarily everyone else's, i.e. some songwriters achieve great results without ever having sacrificed a live chicken or goat to the song gods! the steps are as follows: 1) Sweet Whispers 2) The Beckoning 3) Song of Serenity 4) Sharing of Spirits 5) Drawing Out the Beast then of course there is a lot of mopping up, slaughtered chicken/goat disposal, and general cleanup afterwards, followed by intense celebration! -d. gauss [/b][/quote] You are a crazy MOFO.....come to Virginia Beach and lets party!

[Lee Flier]

[b]I'm a big believer in the idea that writers and musicians can do their best work only if they're comfortable with their environment. [/b] I think that's a mistaken notion in general although it is true for some individuals. Song ideas can come to me anywhere, and as long as I have a pencil and paper or something to record on, I can work on the song. Ideas assault me and I can't get rid of them, and if I don't get assaulted, nothing will happen, regardless of how comfortable I am or how ideal the situation is for writing. The only thing that sucks about that is when a song comes at a REALLY inconvenient time. I'll be damned if I don't start getting a lot of song ideas while I'm trying to program my fucking computer. I think it's a secret rebellion. [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] And of course I always think writing down the song is more important than trying to continue working. [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] I think of songs in the car, in the shower, in bed when I'm about to go to sleep or wake up, or when I'm walking through the grocery store. It really doesn't matter. On the other hand a lot of times when I specifically go down to my studio intending to write, and all my guitars are there, my recorder, the candles are lit, everything's great, I can't think of a damned thing. [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Working out arrangements or demos for stuff that's already written, yes. Writing from scratch, not necessarily. I can really never predict when or where that will happen. --Lee

[AmadMozart]

I didn't know I had any ritual to songwriting until I read the post - - I don't know if mine is a "ritual" or a habitual compulsion, but here it is. I never write in the studio - always on the grand piano upstairs (kids going crazy, phone ringing, doesn't matter, when I am in that zone the grand is where I need to be). Musical ideas (verse, chorus, bridge, whatever) always first - then the basic song structure. Then I leave the piano, go sit in the kitchen with a cup of coffee and sketch out lyrics - no dictionary, thesaurus, just my composition pad and a number 2 pencil with a big eraser [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] When the lyrical ideas are pretty well fleshed out, it is back to the piano to sing and play it together to see how it is working and finish it. If I can't 80% of the idea capture within a single session (couple of hours tops) - the idea gets filed away and I don't try and grind away at it...that never works for me. Polishing the song comes during production as other musical ideas come in to augment the basic song track. And I smoke and drink coffee like a fiend when I am writing - I don't know if this helps or if I just like to smoke and drink coffee [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Cheers, Amad

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[quote]Originally posted by Lee Flier: [b][b]I'm a big believer in the idea that writers and musicians can do their best work only if they're comfortable with their environment. [/b] I think that's a mistaken notion in general although it is true for some individuals. Song ideas can come to me anywhere, and as long as I have a pencil and paper or something to record on, I can work on the song. Ideas assault me and I can't get rid of them, and if I don't get assaulted, nothing will happen, regardless of how comfortable I am or how ideal the situation is for writing. The only thing that sucks about that is when a song comes at a REALLY inconvenient time. I'll be damned if I don't start getting a lot of song ideas while I'm trying to program my fucking computer. [/B][/quote] Well, that's kind of what I'm getting at. I get ideas at times other than when I go into my studio and decide to write... When you get an idea while doing something else and have no way of documenting or capturing the moment (other than trying to remember it *exactly* the way you imagined it), that's an uncomfortable environment too. I'd much rather have the good ideas hit me when a tape recorder happens to be running. (It doesn't always happen that way, of course...) I'm sure there will be those who will disagree with doing this, but I can usually turn creativity on or off like a faucet. I've been bummed *waaaaay* too many times by getting a great melody when I'm nowhere near a microcassette recorder, so I usually try to shut off the creative thoughts until I can go somewhere where I can record them. I don't worry about missing any ideas I might have had when I was running, at work, or at a restaurant... If I've purposely shut off my creative thoughts for a little while, they're inevitably ready to go as soon as I tell myself it's OK to be creative. This message has been edited by popmusic on 08-03-2001 at 11:19 AM

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[quote]Originally posted by AmadMozart: [b]Then I leave the piano, go sit in the kitchen with a cup of coffee and sketch out lyrics - no dictionary, thesaurus, just my composition pad and a number 2 pencil with a big eraser [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] [/b][/quote] It's funny -- I need to have the dictonary/rhyming dictionary/thesarus out for emergency purposes, but I almost never use them when initially writing the song. (The rhyming dictionary tends to be used when I get stuck for a word, though.) I usually write the music and words at the same time. I can't use a pencil -- gotta use a pen. When I change my mind about something, I keep scribbling stuff out until the paper is illegible, and then I rewrite all the lyrics from scratch on another piece of paper. When I rewrite the the lyrics, I inevitably revise things while I'm copying them. I agree with AmadMozart about capturing 80% of the song when you initially write it. If I don't have 80% of it down, it usually remains in songwriting purgatory... And d gauss -- I never tried that thing with the chicken. Maybe I'll give that a try next time and make a stir fry afterwards. [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] This message has been edited by popmusic on 08-03-2001 at 11:21 AM

[Lee Flier]

[quote]Originally posted by popmusic: [b] Well, that's kind of what I'm getting at. I get ideas at times other than when I go into my studio and decide to write... When you get an idea while doing something else and have no way of documenting or capturing the moment (other than trying to remember it *exactly* the way you imagined it), that's an uncomfortable environment too. I'd much rather have the good ideas hit me when a tape recorder happens to be running. (It doesn't always happen that way, of course...) [/b][/quote] Yeah, well definitely it would be "easier" if things hit you when you're all ready for them. But in my experience that doesn't happen too much. Luckily I've gotten pretty good at remembering things, and/or having something handy to write down what comes to me or sing a riff into a microcassette recorder or whatever. If I have to remember something, I try to think of a trick to help my memory retain the idea, like: "Think of the drum part to Led Zep 'Rock and Roll" with the riff to 'Satisfaction' played backwards'" or something that will get my brain off in that direction enough to remember it. Generally if I can remember the hook and the rhythmic part I can remember the rest easily. Not that I haven't still lost a lot of ideas, though. [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/frown.gif[/img] --Lee

[strat0124]

To me, even the riff/melody is personal. The words may not have that same connection, but if I am the principle writer of the music, it had to come from somewhere whether or not I can tell where from. The whole notion of having one set way of writing gets thrashed every other day. I'm sorta like Lee in that I hear songs in the shower and in the car, or wherever and it will eat at me while I'm conscious, and plague me in my subconscious. I lose alot of sleep thinking of arrangements or whatever to do with a new tune. I think it's a great idea to record little riffs and ideas on a little sketchpad recorder...MD or microcassette. I've been doing that for years. I have a buddy who has one of those smartmedia recorders and he sings or hums melodies into it while driving down the road....works for him. I write alot of songs, especially of late, for people I'd like to hear sing it! I sent two CD's of ideas to the lead singer of the Blind Venetians....though it may have overwhelmed her. I give alot of stuff away, and get a few things back to me. I don't feel obligated to work on something just because someone gave it to me. But if it strikes a chord, I'll damn sure work it. The singer in our band DOES feel obligated to work something one of his buds sends him, and to be honest some of it is ho hum at best. I've had to totally rearrange and add all kinds of stuff to make some of it work. These days, we'll call a turd a turd, and let him keep it for another time! I'm sure some of my stuff may have had the same reaction before. It's kinda like taking photo's......you'll shoot alot of crap pictures before you get the four or five on a roll that are great. Who knows when that killer groove and fantastic hook for your next song comes..........that's what makes it so much fun. Another note, what you think sucks might be fantastic to someone else, or vice versa.

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[quote]Originally posted by popmusic: [b]I'm sure there will be those who will disagree with doing this, but I can usually turn creativity on or off like a faucet. I've been bummed *waaaaay* too many times by getting a great melody when I'm nowhere near a microcassette recorder, so I usually try to shut off the creative thoughts until I can go somewhere where I can record them. [/b][/quote] And only a couple hours after I had posted this, I got into a car, started singing a partially-finished song, and ack -- I figured out a part of the melody I was trying to write and I could hear different chord changes... And didn't have the micro cassette recorder on me... And I can't remember what I sang!!! Arrrrgh!!! [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/mad.gif[/img] This message has been edited by popmusic on 08-03-2001 at 03:43 PM

[seclusion]

I really love my approach.. I play #1 Gtr, #2 Piano/Keys, #3 Sax, #4 I sing sorta.. I run my studio as well.. Some days I leave it up to the Trinity or Gigastudio samples to inspire me.. Other days it's me and an accoustic while I watch T.V.. I've done a couple of intrumentals where I just did a sax melody and everything else just happened too.. The freaky thing I've never been able to figure in is my melody lines... Everything else I've worked on.. Gtr, Sax, Keys.. I've practised countless hrs.. But my singing I've never liked.. So I didn't really practise.. Well when I worked with a producer he said he liked my songs alot.. But ya's gotta do melody and words.. A couple beers on a not busy day and bam.. 2-3 takes these melody's just come outa nowhere.. People think songwriting is a big deal.. I guess so but I feel it's obvious with all the work.. My melody lines.... That's just freaky.. Mind you I ain't famous either.. Oh ya.. Lyrics... I'll never do.. That's the wifes job.. I make no rules for writing.... Ever.. Brian

[DC]

I've tried a buncha different ways and what seems to me to work the best is doing batch idea sessions with a micro cassette and acoustic guitar or sometimes keyboard. I record loads of just little riffs, chord progressions, lots of times sorta parts/variations on a theme (same rhythm and key). Then I'll play the tapes back on another day and get one in my head as the root for a song. So then I'll many times just write the structure out in my head and make a chord chart, then find a drum beat and copy it for 100 bars and then record the rhythm part and start building from there. Then I'll listen to my music bed and write words and melody to that. Occationally, I'll just wake up in the morning or have a eurika! moment and boom, the whole thing just pours out of my head, usually with the words and everything. Then I'm frantically running for a piece of paper or a micro cassette just to capture as much of the song as I can. Those are always the best ones. One day, I just decided to write a song completely on paper. I got a chord progression in my head and figured a way to write out the beat and the song needed a unison lick every so often so I just wrote in 'lick' at that point. Then I went down to my studio and the whole thing just escaped and took life all on it's own. I've heard of people who put like 8 keys, 8 styles and 8 topics for lyrics in a hat and draw them out one set at a time and write. That sounds like a good way to get going. I many times write much better if I am or pretend I'm on a deadline.

[Sui]

Basically all I do is sit down and start playing. Sometimes I come up with ideas, sometimes I don't. Sometimes it all clicks, and sometimes I get stuck on an idea. Sometimes I throw those ideas I'm stuck on away, and sometimes I shelf them for a while - I've had stuff I put aside for over a year and then when I came back to it everything just seemed to fall into place. And sometimes it still doesn't click, at which point I throw them away, although sometimes I still keep them. SO I guess I really don't have any set rituals per say. But there are always a few common factors in any writing session I have: 1) Must have cigarettes and caffiene. 2) Must be after 10pm, and normally much later than that. I've written a few of my best songs in the middle of the day, but the vast majority I seem to do in the middle of the night. I like composing when it's dark outside. 3) Must not have any ailments - whether it be a head cold, headache or what have you. I never could write squat if I was sick or not feeling good, although I know some people that are at thier best at writing when they are sick. and finally, 4) Must say the words "fuck" and "shit" at least a combined 200 times during the session. If I haven't done this then chances are I'm not writing, but just goofing off with my keyboards. [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

[duncantheriver.com]

It helps having some sort of shorthand method for writing down the words/music idea when there's no tape deck around. I write the lyric idea with enough space above it to write in the the melody notes, using the number system - 1 thru 8, and an up or down arrow if you're crossing to a new octave. I put the chord number inside a circle, put in the rests and bar lines, and the note values if necessary. Also the groove - shuffle - straight time, whatever, or name a similar song title for reference. I suppose it would be easier to draw a music staff and notate the damn thing, but then there'd be no challenge in trying to figure out what it was you wrote down last night in the dark driving down the freeway.

[duncantheriver.com]

I forgot, you gotta have a roller ball pen, so you can write on the steering wheel without honking the horn.

[dansouth]

It helps to have a shorthand notion for sketching out ideas. That way, you can be receptive to ideas at any time, anywhere. Just reach for a pen and a scrap of paper and get the essence of it down. Once I have an idea, I build a rough arrangement using a sequencer. If it shows promise, I'll keep going. Otherwise I'll shelve it for a while. But at least I have something that I can play for someone should I decided to use a producer of a collaborator at a later date. I never write lyrics in isolation. I always have the music playing when I work on lyrics. It's the approach that works best for me. Your mileage may vary.

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[quote]Originally posted by dansouth@yahoo.com: [b]It helps to have a shorthand notion for sketching out ideas. That way, you can be receptive to ideas at any time, anywhere. Just reach for a pen and a scrap of paper and get the essence of it down. [/b][/quote] Funny -- I didn't realize I had a shorthand notation until you mentioned it... I tend to use a squggly bracket to signify a chorus, a square-like bracket for a verse, and a rounded bracket for a bridge. That way, if I have only partial lyrics, I'll know which lines I need to fill in for a particular section.

[Master Zap]

Bwahaha, I dont know what is craziest... using a CASIO SK-1 (bet its for that [i]really authentic[/i] auto-accompaniement, huh [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] ) or the goat sacrifice but... ...myself go by tweedledum and tweedledee: Alice: "I dont know where to begin..." Tweedledum: "Start at the beginning..." Tweedledee: "...and when you get to the finish.... stop!" /Z