Segovia and effects pedals

[Eric Iverson]

I happened to listen to an cassette of an old Segovia LP called "Music for the Guitar" where the old master really played beautifully and it struck me - he managed to get a great variety of tones without ANY signal processing!

 

Now I'm not down on pedals - I have them, I use them, and am thinking of getting a Soundblox Multiwave Distortion pedal soon - a far cry from classical guitar. But there are ways to get cool tones out of a guitar without them!

 

It was also cool to note how carefully he had worked on interpreting the pieces to bring out the poetry. Another good reminder!

 

Curious as to your thoughts.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Yhup, "touch" and phrasing, in a nutshell.

 

Playing fingerstyle can help there, as can looking (listening!) for a guitar and an amp that best translates your "touch" and volume-knob into tonal expression. Occasionally spend some time getting intimate with your electric guitar- without plugging it in! It'll expand your tonal palette when you do plug in.

 

Note that Jeff Beck plays fingerstyle and doesn't do a whole lot of tap-dancing on footswitches to get the wide variety of highly expressive tones that he does. And the most important tools in Jimi's bag were his touch and his phrasing, even though a lot of focus is put on what gear he used, particularly the pedals.

 

 

[Gifthorse]

I am all over that on acoustic. Steel string is definately different than nylon. I have a shtick on 6 string where I try to play like electric. I really think you can do that on acoustic if you set it up right and play right.

 

I like to play old VH on mine and make it sound like Eddie. I can do it too--within reason--and also emulate the Phase shifter by moving my right hand from the bridge to the middle of the hole while I play. It sounds like I have an effect too. It takes practice to do smoothly without glitches but it is a cool sound when you get it down. I am tonally aware of the difference of playing near the bridge and neck. It is really night and day-dpending on the acoustic.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Gift-Hoss! What time izzitt there?!

 

I like to play old VH on mine and make it sound like Eddie. I can do it too--within reason--and also emulate the Phase shifter by moving my right hand from the bridge to the middle of the hole while I play. It sounds like I have an effect too.

 

I used to do the same exact thing sort of faking the keyboard parts along with some of the guitar parts from "Won't Get Fooled Again" by The Who! Cool, lotta fun!

[Billster]

Picking hand technique and hand position, not to mention fretting techniques can make a world of difference. Easy to notice on acoustic when most often there are no electronics in the way.

 

To take it a step further, these same performance techniques applied to an electric guitar, with effects, can make the effects respond differently, adding further dimension to the sound.

[stamplicker]

Right on the Money with that one Bill =)

[Eric Iverson]

Two guys who excel at getting different tones are Eric Johnson and Sonny Landreth - not that that's news to anybody here!

 

I still remember that old GP article from '86 where Eric explained how he got that "koto" sound on Bristol Shore!

[Gruupi]

I think that the tonal variations and the ability to control them is the biggest reason I have switched over to classical guitar. Over the years I was becoming more and more frustrated trying to bring out subleties on electric. I had developed a dislike for modulation effects since they mask any tonal things you might be trying to do with your hands. Another big annoyance has been that playing with a drummer or with most modern instrumental combos, most of the subtlety is just outright lost.

 

The classical guitar and other acoustic instruments just opened my eyes to a whole other world of sounds that I had ignored. I will probably revisit electric guitar some day, and I think I will approach it from a different perspective of really working to achieve dynamics and tone colors with a minimum of electronic gagetry.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Oh. Hell, yeah, on Sonny Landreth!

 

I like to do something sorta similar to Eric Johnson's "Koto"/picking near the frets-thing, where I sort of "snick" downwards on the string with my "i" finger-nail with the fingertip-pad following-through against the string, very close to the bridge-saddle. This works particularly well on a Strat with p'up-selector pos. #4 (br & mi), especially if the br p'up is a humbucker.

 

I also like to get artificial-harmonics with my picking-hand, using the side-edge of my thumb ("p", ), that 'ridge' along the side near the nail, laying it across the tops of the strings to touch the strings and create the harmonic "node", plucking with my "i", "m", and "a" fingers. This works particularly well on electric with a dynamic, touch-responsive overdrive/distortion; playing in the vicinity of the 12th-fret, I can guide off the high-frets and the neck-pickup's polepieces (the imaginary 24th-fret location) for my thumb to get octave-harmonics, and do a pretty cool sounding approximation of the "Octavia" octave-fuzz sound (focusing on my "touch" to carefully balance the fundamental note with the octave-harmonic, to get both)...

 

I can also use this technique to pluck 5th/root/3rd or root/3rd/root8va triads of harmonics on the top-three or middle-three strings, fretting "D"/"Dm" and "A"/"Am" shapes and fragments, respectively. And of course, you're not limited to octaves, there are a lot of harmonics in there!

 

Fretboard position can make a difference in your tonal shadings, too.

[Gifthorse]

Classical is a different animal no doubt. I suck on a classical beyond some stuff I remember from my youth. I can make it sound ok, but when I hear someone who actually takes it serious I am always impressed with thier finesse.

 

Not that I couldn't tackle the dynamic sound if I wanted to, but I don't own a nylon string.

 

But I have to say classical guitar is tough. I mean if I hear Christopher Parkening or whatever, I am always in awe of how advanced his technique is. I wonder if that guy delves into any other styles?..

[Gifthorse]

Classical is a different animal no doubt. I suck on a classical beyond some stuff I remember from my youth. I can make it sound ok, but when I hear someone who actually takes it serious I am always impressed with thier finesse.

 

Not that I couldn't tackle the dynamic sound if I wanted to, but I don't own a nylon string.

 

But I have to say classical guitar is tough. I mean if I hear Christopher Parkening or whatever, I am always in awe of how advanced his technique is. I wonder if that guy delves into any other styles?..

[Eric Iverson]

I don't think Chris Parkening does. Julian Bream played jazz in his youth. John Williams is into African things. Ben Verdery does a variety of styles - but all of them play great classical.

Ben has an album he did with Andy Summers (formerly of the Police) by the way, which I plan to acquire soon.

 

Nowadays classical guitarists are more open to playing other styles, and incorporating more influences into their own pieces - it's not like Segovia who considered the electric guitar an abomination, and thought "all this rock and roll is so much garbage."

 

I hope I don't regret passing that last tidbit - he was STILL a great player worth checking out, even by rockers! Especially ones who think Yngwie is a classical player.

[Fingerstyle_Jim]

One of Segovias biggies was his use of the rest stroke, where you pluck a string and allow the plucking finger to come to rest on the string above, much like a lot of bass players do. He was a master of this, it's hard to develop speed with it but he definitely did, along with more tone and volume. In fact, he never used amplification of any kind, no mic's, nothing and by all reports was heard by the entire audience in some larger venues. Back on the electric fingerstyle players, don't forget Mark Knopfler,

 

Jim

[Eric Iverson]

Back on the electric fingerstyle players, don't forget Mark Knopfler,

 

Jim

 

Amen, brother and hallelujah!

[Dannyalcatraz]

Ben has an album he did with Andy Summers (formerly of the Police) by the way, which I plan to acquire soon.

 

That album, for those who don't know, is First You Build a Cloud.

 

I hope I don't regret passing that last tidbit - he was STILL a great player worth checking out, even by rockers! Especially ones who think Yngwie is a classical player.

 

Yngwie was "classically inspired," not classical- there's a difference as we all know. (And to my ear, his play style bears as much a debt to the some of the violin solos as to classical guitar.)

 

For the record, I'm also a fan of the Romeros- lots of talent in that family.

 

Though its not a classical disc, if you can find it, Steve Howe and Martin Taylor did a sweet album for fans of the acoustic guitar called "Masterpiece Guitars" in which they play some of the prizes of the Scott Chinery collection.

 

http://regalameestanoche.blogspot.com/2006/12/steve-howe-martin-taylor-masterpiece.html

[Eric Iverson]

Yngwie has stated that he idolizes Paganini, the legendary violin virtuoso. (I didn't think that most of the guys on THIS forum were ignorant of the difference between "classical" and "classically inspired.... some kids I've talked to don't seem to understand it.)

 

Actually Eric Johnson has stated that he loves to hear the best classical violinists, for their beautiful tones, and wanted to get some of that "royalty of sound" into rock guitar.

 

In terms of SOUND, a violin is more like an electric with lots of sustain than a classical guitar, IMHO.

 

BTW, there is a classical guitarist who did a CD of transcriptions of Paganini pieces. I haven't heard it... have any of you guys?

[GovernorSilver]

I'm sure this was posted before, but I just love this vid:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoD78foaZ4o

 

One acoustic violin with no effects, replicating sounds that are normally done with electric guitar and amp stack. Somebody posted a link to the vid after getting fed up with "best overdrive?/best distortion?" questions on the Fiddle Forum.

[Fingerstyle_Jim]

Paganini was also a guitarist and overall grandstanding show off(no disrespect intended). I read that when he premiered a symphony in London England once he showed up for reheasral with the LSO and proceeded to only play the first note of each bar on his violin. The LSO members thought that's all his part was and went into total shock when he launched into his complete violin part in front of the audience, thus adding to the whole event the fact that even the LSO players were visibly astonished with his playing. Several guitarists have recorded his music, you might find some if you search Naxos.

 

Jim

[Bluesape]

Segovia detested amplification. He insisted the "poetry" of the music was distorted by an amp - really old school.

[Justus A. Picker]

I don't think Chris Parkening does. Julian Bream played jazz in his youth. John Williams is into African things. Ben Verdery does a variety of styles - but all of them play great classical.

 

Remember John Williams "prog-rock" band Sky?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XUbYWSScRo&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXTvj9votKg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-XrNiFtMuo

 

Segovia referred to the classical guitar as a miniature orchestra because of the various tones you can pull out of it.