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Who has the longest lead?


TimR

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I bought some cable and a couple of jacks to make a long lead. This is purely so that I can go further out for sound checks, when playing I'll swap for a shorter length. Previously I had a couple of 5m leads and a graphic stomp box in the middle. I've got an active bass so I'm not too worried about impedance and frequency problems.

 

I have bought 25m, but that will be heavy and quite hard to manage. I'll probably go with 15m.

 

What are the experiences of others.

 

BTW. I need to know who has the longest so that I can make mine longer ;)

Feel the groove internally within your own creativity. - fingertalkin

 

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The problem with a longer lead is that you could possibly lose volume or tone quality because of the longer cable due to the increased resistance and capacitance of the wire. Even with an active bass I believe you'll still have some loss. unless you plan of spending some cash for top quality wire. Not to mention tripping on it. JC is right. get a wireless. It's more convenient.

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I used to do what you are doing, Tim, but I now use a wireless for the same purpose.

 

 

Yahtzee. Even if you don't use it during the gig it's worth owning one for this purpose alone.

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I hope you wire in a signal booster, too. That's a lot of lead. ;)

 

My vote goes to wireless, too. The signal loss wouldn't be that much (on a good unit), and the overall change in sound wouldn't be that different than it would be with the room full of people.

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Ricky Henderson...errrr, wrong forum...

 

Often I can get another Lowdowner at a gig to give me some input about levels and tone. That's a nice thing. No wireless, no super long lead. If not a Lowdowner, often one or more audience members are musician pals and can provide a similar, albeit lower quality, service.

 

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Yes 25m is far too long, I think even 15m (45ft) is going to be too long to manage effectively as well. But at 50p a metre (25c a foot) it's a little bit cheaper than a wireless. Especially just for sound check.

 

The singer usually goes out front and directs who needs to be louder or quieter, but she doesn't understand frequency mixing, so everything tends to get louder and louder until she gives up. It doesn't really work that well, it gets a good workable sound, but I have a feeling it could be a lot better.

 

I intend to go back to basics and sound check from drums up, one instrument at a time for a couple of gigs to 'reset' our levels which have drifted out over the last couple of years.

 

I'll also post some blind testers between the cables to see if you guys can hear any difference between a short cable and a long one.

Feel the groove internally within your own creativity. - fingertalkin

 

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don't sound guys use long cables...for snakes and such (think large concerts)? How do they compensate for signal loss?

 

In a word, or two, Low Impedance. XLR.

 

Cable length becomes more of an issue for high impedance, like most basses and gU$%^@s. I've always heard 20 feet was really the sensible max.

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don't sound guys use long cables...for snakes and such (think large concerts)? How do they compensate for signal loss?

My guess: big power amps for pushing the signal through that much resistance and EQs and other equipment made for compensating...?

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Theoretically: Using long cables on guitars is only a problem with traditional electronics. The capacitance on the cable interacts with the volume and tone pots and the inductive pickups creating resonant peaks and troughs at different frequencies. On an active bass the signal should be fairly unaffected as the preamp acts as a buffer between the pickups and controls. The guitar and amplifier will 'see' the cable purely as a low pass filter.

 

With a low impedance microphone of 600ohms again this wouldn't be a problem due to the low impedance of the mic.

 

The cable I'm considering is 2.9nF capacitance and 1ohm resistance so I think it'll have a corner frequency of 54MHz high enough not to be audible.

 

Doing this with a passive bass wouldn't work.

 

But we'll see when I do the comparison. I also have the Fender Platinum lead that I 'won' from Bass Player that I'll include in the test.

 

Using the lead only for sound checks should limit the abuse, we play on stages too small to even have a 6m cable without it getting under your feet.

Feel the groove internally within your own creativity. - fingertalkin

 

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Theoretically: Using long cables on guitars is only a problem with traditional electronics. The capacitance on the cable interacts with the volume and tone pots and the inductive pickups creating resonant peaks and troughs at different frequencies. On an active bass the signal should be fairly unaffected as the preamp acts as a buffer between the pickups and controls. The guitar and amplifier will 'see' the cable purely as a low pass filter.

 

 

Agreed. The other advantage of low impedance XLR-type mic lines is noise reduction/cancelation. At one end, the signal gets split in two, with one side of the signal being put out of phase by 180 degrees (uh...how much is that in radians?). Noise gets picked up along the cable run from, say, AC power cords and other voodoo, in both sides of the signal. Then at the other end, the out of phase signal gets converted back into the same phase as it's mate, and is recombined with it's mate. The beauty is that since the noise also gets a 180 degrees phase change, it is now equal and opposite to the noise in the other line that didn't get it's phase changed. When recombined, this noise is magically canceled out leaving the original pristine signal.

 

Theoretically, that is. So the low impedance active electronics bass will be less affected by the tone-suck of a long cable run, but will still be affected by extra noise. Probably good enough for sound check, but I like Mr. Cohen's wireless solution better 'cause of the spaghetti that a 25' cable will produce at breakdown.

Things are just the way they are, and they're only going to get worse.

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How far will a wireless allow without loss of tone/signal level?

 

Far enough that if you'rte playing with the band, there will be a delay between when you hear them and when they actually hit a note long enough to throw you off...

Always remember that you�re unique. Just like everyone else.

 

 

 

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with one side of the signal being put out of phase by 180 degrees (uh...how much is that in radians?).

 

180 degrees is pi (3.14159265...) radians.

 

I'm just sayin'.

 

Oh, man. I used to know that stuff cold. I'd use every freakin' button on the calculator. Multi-variable calculus? Piece of cake. Now? I'm just getting soft in the head. Logs, tangent, cosine, inverse? It's all gone. All I know is how to order a beer in German.

Things are just the way they are, and they're only going to get worse.

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Yes just to clarify. All instrument and mic cables are low impedance. It is the actual Mic that is low impedance and the guitar is relatively high impedance.

 

The lead worked well last night. I went for 12m in the end and it's easily manageable. It made the sound check a lot quicker and I now have a much better idea of how the band sounds.

 

There's no noticeable frequency loss in the live situation, and no noise picked up by the lead at all.

 

 

Feel the groove internally within your own creativity. - fingertalkin

 

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Sorry I guess that NIN gig isn't for you! But if you watch the "With Teeth" DVD, during "March Of The Pigs" you can see him jump into the audience and Trevor has to run on stage to coil all the cable back on the stage. Funny stuff.

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