I don't feel qualified

[Chewbubba]

... to give lessons. Another person called me yesterday about lessons. He saw me playing at church and said, "I see you tearing it up on the bass..." I assumed that was a compliment.

I've never had any formal training, theory classes, or lessons. Well, except for a Jazz Improv class. But I've been playing since '87, played on several vanity albums, did studio work for a couple of years, did some really short tours (like one week at a time), and still play at church every weekend (contemporary/rock style music) as well as the occasional 2000+ crowd at festivals with another band.

 

Anyway, I get calls for lessons all the time. To nearly all them, I turn them down. How many of you guys give lessons? Do you feel "qualified" to give lessons? Why or why not?

[jcadmus]

Me neither -- I can give some advice on technique and gear, but my reading skills have deteriorated over the years and I just don't know theory well enough to teach.

[EddiePlaysBass]

I don't get asked Well, I have taught a few people the basics of getting started on guitar, but I specify up front that I won't be able to do much beyond that.

 

You could try doing the same. Get them started if they are completely new, or at least ask what they want to learn and what they expect. Who knows, you might fit the bill?

[Chad Thorne]

Another person called me yesterday about lessons. He saw me playing at church and said, "I see you tearing it up on the bass..." I assumed that was a compliment.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e397/reifspano/Smileys/muttley.gif

 

I'd give it a try, even if you tell your prospective student that you're doing it on a trial basis. Give 'em a free introductory lesson. You might discover you have more to share with them than you think you do.

[Rocky McDougall]

I started giving lessons about 9 months ago. I now have about 10 students. I only take beginners and I do spend a lot of time on the very basics. Preparing for lessons has really prompted me to imporove my theory knowledge and I have probably benifittted more than my students. I do get a lot of pleasue from teaching and would probably do it for nothing, but I am charging $25 per hour which is standard for our area.

[davio]

Some people are great musicians and don't enjoy or are not good at teaching. Some people are crappy musicians but they have something special that allows them to teach well. Me? I've taught a few kids guitar basics, a few basic vocal lessons (I'm not a good singer) and a little bit of informal instruction on bass guitar. I'm about to give my first URB lesson and I've been doing that longer than any of the others. I have no idea how it will turn out. A trial basis is a good suggestion to see if both of you get something out of the experience.

 

That said, reading music and theory aren't necessary to give lessons. If the person wants to read music and learn theory, then yeah, it becomes necessary. If he just wants some pointers on technique, feel, groove...dip into your bag of licks and tricks...then it could be just fine.

 

Teaching is an education in itself.

[b5pilot]

I can give tips and advice. Lessons, especially ones that people would pay money for, no way. I am definately unqualified for that.

[Ron G]

I've been playing just over a year and from what I have read you are all qualified, because if the people asking for lessons are like me they like how you play so teach them how you learned. I ask and get the same response, but let them know they will not learn how to read music. They just want to play! I have spent a lot money on books and DVD's.

[Phil W]

One thing to remember is to be honest about your strengths and avoid giving bad advice. We all have strengths and I have learned something even from school age kids.

 

I too lessons from Steve Billman who is an awesome teacher in many, many ways but he also recommended another teacher (Ed Lucie) who had a different perspective and would give me something different.

 

You can teach, but focus on what you do well and steer your students towards great teachers as well as you.

 

I only have 1 student at the moment and my lessons are very much focussed on what he wants - I recommend other teachers and am honest about the things better taught by others but we have a great rapport and that is hard to guarantee from another teacher.

[Nicklab]

I actually had 2 students at one time. And this was when I had only been playing for about 2 years. I was in college and I thought "Hey, extra beer money!" But I had been taking lessons steadily with a couple of teachers and I had learned some pretty valuable things.

 

Both students were radically different. One had very little experience. He didn't even have his bass with him on campus. He wanted to learn to play specific songs. He didn't want to learn theory or any musical structure. He wanted to learn how to play Metallica songs. He lasted for a few lessons but ultimately I called things off because he wasn't serious and he didn't have an instrument to practice on. He was only playing one of my basses during the lesson.

 

The other student had a good foundation, but wanted to learn to play the blues. He was solid at playing rock music, but was struggling to understand how to play blues bass lines. This only lasted a short while, but he got a grasp of the concept. And ultimately I became good friends with the guy.

 

Now? I think it would be nice to make some extra cash by giving lessons. My theoretical background is okay. But I don't sight read well at all. And because of that one serious deficiency, I don't feel qualified to give lessons. Hell, I may actually be taking g***ar lessons soon! But it's odd that now, with the benefit of so much more experience I feel unqualified to give a bass lesson.

[5 string Mike]

As far as giving lessons, I would be like the blind leading the blind myself. But, I think one thing you could do is share your passion and experience, and how you learned. Much of it is going to depend on if the kid really wants to learn the instrument or wants someone to show him one or two songs. You can let him know he can talk to you if he seriously wants to learn, let him take it from there. You don't have to be as knowledgeable as Jeremy to be helpful.

 

You could give him advice on how to get started, what kind of instructors and materials could be good to learn with, what kind of gear would be good to start on, that stuff and kind of mentor him along.

[Big Red 67]

... to give lessons. Another person called me yesterday about lessons. He saw me playing at church and said, "I see you tearing it up on the bass..." I assumed that was a compliment.

I've never had any formal training, theory classes, or lessons. Well, except for a Jazz Improv class. But I've been playing since '87, played on several vanity albums, did studio work for a couple of years, did some really short tours (like one week at a time), and still play at church every weekend (contemporary/rock style music) as well as the occasional 2000+ crowd at festivals with another band.

 

Anyway, I get calls for lessons all the time. To nearly all them, I turn them down. How many of you guys give lessons? Do you feel "qualified" to give lessons? Why or why not?

 

Are they a beginner? If so it is a great way to improve yourself. All you have to do is stay one step ahead of them.

[b5pilot]

I've been playing just over a year and from what I have read you are all qualified, because if the people asking for lessons are like me they like how you play so teach them how you learned. I ask and get the same response, but let them know they will not learn how to read music. They just want to play! I have spent a lot money on books and DVD's.

 

Thanks Ron G. I've been playing a long time and I think I do what I do pretty well. However, I think to be a good teacher you must have a good enough grasp of all aspects of the instrument so you can teach effectively. I don't read and there are other aspects that I have sort of familiarity with but I have yet to master. Although I can show people some things I feel that I really can't give a student their money's worth.

[Ron G]

I was spending $40 an hour for lessons material covered was Hal Leonard Bass Method Book 2, Walking Bass lines, and 3 songs off of CD's The Jazz Crusaders, Paul Brown & Friends, Donald Byrd. The other teacher at the music store just worked on ear training bring your iPod learn a song.

 

Jaco learned to read after he knew how to play.

[Tom Capasso]

I think I could be a good teacher - if I had something to teach. I read horribly, have lousy technique, and have never been "trained" myself (other than those early years of playing sax).

 

Oh sure - if you want to pay me to point out the cool bass parts (and other instruments) in songs to help you build your ear, I could do that. I could (and now that I think of it, probably should) develop a course in how to be the bass player in a rock band. Except that you can learn that on your own (even though some people never do...).

 

I have been asked, but always politely decline.

Tom

[Ross Brown]

I could (and now that I think of it, probably should) develop a course in how to be the bass player in a rock band. Except that you can learn that on your own (even though some people never do...).

 

 

Tom

 

I think this is what I am good at... being a bass player in a band. A little different than being a good bass player. If you develop a course can I teach a chapter?

[Phil W]

But I don't sight read well at all. And because of that one serious deficiency, I don't feel qualified to give lessons.

 

I know how you feel. My sight-reading is very slow. But my last two students have both been able to read music way better than me anyway - one was a keyboard player and one a drummer so it wasn't a serious handicap. I could write stuff out for them if necessary.

 

I do agree that taking lessons is a great preparation for teaching. I find myself using techniques and strategies I learned from my teachers along the way: Dill Katz, Ian Carr, Rufus Philpott, Jerry Watts Jr, Steve Billman, Ed Lucie, Hussain Jiffry, Doug Ross . . .and then clinics by guys like Dave Liebman and Dennis Chambers . . .and all the great books I have read (especially Victor Wooten's The Music Lesson) . . .it's all knowledge and it all informs how you can teach.

[DavidMPires]

Take my example I contacted Phil sometime ago and asked him to give me some lessons, I'm not a begginer but I'm not certanly a pro, and I was aware of Phil limitations just by reading his posts and talking to him.

 

In the end he turned my money down and said he wouldn't give lessons, (but that was mostly due to dificult arragements that had to take place)

 

I'd still would like to take lessons from him as I know I would learn lots.

 

There's a couple folks here that I would like to learn from

 

Juancarlin being one of them as he has such a wide knowledge on latin music.

[1111000]

The way I see it, if there is a need in your area and you know how to teach the basics, a beginner such as a young child or someone new to music is okay to teach. I did this for a year to supplement my lab work income. I had a great time, too; I didn't break it off till my lab work went full time and I had to move to Lawrence for a brief spell.

 

It also helps you to learn. Just be honest and if a student is getting beyond your help, offer to help them find a better teacher. Also, don't price gouge. I gave lessons for the cheap, but I am not a pro like Jeremy and others here who teach for a living.

[Eric VB]

I could (and now that I think of it, probably should) develop a course in how to be the bass player in a rock band. Except that you can learn that on your own (even though some people never do...).

But isn't that exactly why someone would seek bass lessons, to be able to play in a band? (Playing bass by yourself isn't that fun unless you're playing solo bass.)

 

From "never touched a bass in my life" to "playing gigs" is a lot of ground to cover. And all you have to do is follow the old philosophy of teaching how to fish instead of giving away the fish.

 

Back to the broader question, I've taken lessons from different sources: school band instructors (group lessons in class), music store instructors and college professors. The qualifications were: bachelors degree in music education, playing in a working band and PhD in music. I learned something useful from each of them.

 

I feel that I am qualified to teach. There's a company in town that is looking for instructors but I'm not sure if I meet their criteria of "university level training or the equivalent". (I've taken music classes at college but I don't have a degree in music.) I certainly would not be hired to teach on a college campus. And yet I could probably be hired at a music store.

 

Beyond what music knowledge and experience I may have I also have some experience in teaching, both one-on-one and small groups. I've tutored at both high school and college levels and as part of my day job I've been instructing others how to operate complex instruments for over a decade.

 

I have one bass student; he started almost a year ago. We're working out of Ed's book mainly (which is excellent BTW) but we have taken some tangents outside of the book to look at some songs, a little theory, ear training, etc. We're both pleased with his progress. (When he first came to me he said he felt his previous instructor tried to go to fast so we've been taking it slowly instead.) Taking a cue from School of Rock one of the goals is to play at an open mike. (I can play guitar and sing or have him team up with a guitar student of a friend of mine.) It's not like he's in the school band and has an outlet to perform publicly, so I think this is a good alternative.

 

But I do know my limitations. I've already mentioned to my student that a time will come when I won't have any more to teach and he'll have to find a more advanced instructor. Hopefully by that time I'll have checked out a few around town and have someone I can feel good about recommending.

 

I've said it before in another thread: Jeremy is the resident expert on this topic. He may have more insight as to what is "qualified".

[Phil W]

Take my example I contacted Phil sometime ago and asked him to give me some lessons, I'm not a begginer but I'm not certanly a pro, and I was aware of Phil limitations just by reading his posts and talking to him.

 

In the end he turned my money down and said he wouldn't give lessons, (but that was mostly due to dificult arragements that had to take place)

 

I'd still would like to take lessons from him as I know I would learn lots.

 

There's a couple folks here that I would like to learn from

 

Juancarlin being one of them as he has such a wide knowledge on latin music.

 

There's lots of people to learn from here!

 

So my limitations are apparent from my posts, David? That's not too good - you never know who might be reading. I did make clear my limitations as a bass teacher though and, though practicalities did force my hand a little, I did recommend Steve because I believe he's a far better teacher than me.

[1111000]

I don't think he meant limitations in a bad way. Everyone has limitations. That's why we seek help in teachers and friends. I think ultimately the message was, "I could tell Phil was human but I still admired his skills and wanted to learn from them." In other words, a compliment.

[blackbass]

I've only coached a few people before, and I've told them straight up, "This isn't how an actual music teacher will show you how to play!" I've been playing for about ten years now, and the only instruction I've ever had was a CD that came with my first bass. Since then it's been videos, and tips from other players. I'd say go for it, especially if you are that good in the first place! Also, there is always the need for a little extra cash in this economy....

[Phil W]

I don't think he meant limitations in a bad way. Everyone has limitations. That's why we seek help in teachers and friends. I think ultimately the message was, "I could tell Phil was human but I still admired his skills and wanted to learn from them." In other words, a compliment.

 

I forgot the smilies in my post - it was a little tongue in cheek. It did look funny going on about my limitations though!

[davio]

You're a little tongue in cheek.

 

 

 

 

 

eeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwww................

[jeremy c]

If you are a better than average player (which I'm sure you are, Chewbubba), than you definitely have something to offer a prospective student.

 

Theory is nice and is a large part of what I teach, but you can teach without talking about theory. However, as you go on, you will learn how to explain things. That actually is what music theory is: a way to explain how music works. Theory was invented after the music was created.

 

You can also teach without knowing how to read. Reading is an extremely useful musical skill, but not one that the typical bassist needs to use to play in a band.

 

Playing a bass part when you are given chord names is a typical skill that a bassist needs to know.

 

Start by teaching your student the part to a song that you have played and that he has heard. Then go on to another song. Explain what is different and what is the same between the two bass parts.

 

Watch the student's right and left hands. If they are doing something that looks awkward to you, you can make suggestions and maybe even make up exercises to work on problem areas. You will learn a lot about your technique by doing this and will become aware of things that you do that make your playing efficient that you never noticed you were doing.

 

Create a fingering chart right in front of the student and then give them a blank piece of paper and have them create their own fingering chart.

 

After they have done that, make sure that the next assignments refer to notes by name, not by fret. Make the student play bass parts all over the neck and thereby learn the names of the notes all over the neck. Many bassists know the names of the notes up to fret seven and after that they are venturing into unknown territory. As you teach the notes "up there", you will learn them yourself. A lot of 60's tunes are played an octave higher than bassists play nowadays, such as Daytripper (Sir Paul plays in unison with the guitar riff, not an octave below) and Knock on Wood (Duck Dunn is up at the 12th fret).

 

You can cover bass maintenance and bass history. If you have been playing for some time, your knowledge of these topics will surpass that of any student.

 

You can go to a music store and look at bass method books to see if any might be good for your student. You might even buy a few of them to get teaching ideas and while you are doing this, you will learn new things.

 

Give it a shot. What's the worst that can happen? You might run out of ideas of what to do? If that happens, you can tell the student that you have given him a foundation and now he can carry on without you (or with another teacher).

[Nicklab]

Your post puts things in perspective as always. Thanks Jeremy!

[DavidMPires]

[quote=Phil W

So my limitations are apparent from my posts, David? That's not too good - you never know who might be reading. I did make clear my limitations as a bass teacher though and, though practicalities did force my hand a little, I did recommend Steve because I believe he's a far better teacher than me.

 

Being aware of your limitations it's not a bad thing, and you know i didn't mean that in a bad way....

 

I think that there's always something that one can teach, in your case I think you are one of the best placed persons to teach bass that I know.

 

For the open poster, you should give some lessons and at the same time encourage the student to seek another teacher when you feel that you aren't able to teach anything else.

 

 

 

[Phil W]

Being aware of your limitations it's not a bad thing, and you know i didn't mean that in a bad way....

 

I know David - sorry - I couldn't resist - I forgot the !

 

Jeremy puts it so succinctly as always - I'd love to take a lesson from Mr Cohizzle.

 

[Chewbubba]

I'd love to take a lesson from Mr Cohizzle.

 

Me too. I thought about driving to Cali and get a lesson or two, but California is a little ways away from Arkansas...

 

By the way, thank you all for the responses and opinions. You've all given me much to think about!