dttmc Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I was just wondering if any CX-3 owners here had any advice as to how to edit the various parameters to improve the realism of the sound. Also, does anybody know of a site that discusses this topic, or better still, has user-created CX-3 patches? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatoboy Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 dttmc, I just use my ear basically but Bruce Ashby has has some insights at his page/site. Scroll down towards the bottom of the page! Ashby Solutions (CX-3) . . . . . The first thing I would do is play around with Preamp 1, 2 settings, then rotor miking distance parameters or visa-versa. I played many Hammonds out when I was younger so I have a point of reference and tend to change the CX-3 program parameters by ear and on any one given gig may change them prior as a little experiment but I always save my previous patch in case the new one isn't working that night for me. I basically set up one patch for the whole night, the rest is just drawbar changes on the fly (and everything else), active like many people play Hammonds, not a Patch based approach. Patches are good for specific arrangements, still your gonna tweak Them from night to night too with the room, amp and band sound but maybe just a drawbar adjustment. I pretty much fiddle with patch EQ, PreAmp (pream1,2), click and rotor miking parms. for a basic sound for a night if I'm going to try something new. You might want to set up sounds that you like into 3-4 patches and when playing call them up. Keep the one(s) you like and experiment alittle more next time with a new one(s). My guess is you will find a few sweet spot sounds that you like. I would go for what you like before taking the academic approach especially with tonewheel organ - they are alot of fun! Also check out key click and percussion settings, depends on what you are going for soundwise. I find the 'breathing' of an organ/sim. sound in the CX-3 lies in the pre-amp settings mostly for grind and grit in conjunction with it's interplay with the sim.. That relationship on the CX-3 is to me the best part of the instrument. I used to use more preamp gain than I do now, now I prefer a slightly cleaner tone for whatever reason! Hope some of this ramble helps! lb CP-50, YC 73, FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, Kurzweil SP6, XK-3, CX-3, Hammond XK-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT156 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I was just thinking about the CX-3. Now that Hammond raised the price on the XK-1 above the price of the CX-3, is it back in the running for more sales? We don't hear much about it and I'm wondering if Korg is going to keep it, improve it, or discontinue it. I read somewhere that it is no longer available in Europe. But that could be a distribution thing. Anyone know the direction Korg is going with the CX-3? Mike T. Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I was just thinking about the CX-3. Now that Hammond raised the price on the XK-1 above the price of the CX-3, is it back in the running for more sales? We don't hear much about it and I'm wondering if Korg is going to keep it, improve it, or discontinue it. I read somewhere that it is no longer available in Europe. But that could be a distribution thing. Anyone know the direction Korg is going with the CX-3? Mike T. I think it isn't available in Europe because it doesn't meet the RoHS lead free requirements. Re-engineering it to use lead free solder (which has its own technical/reliability issues) may not be worth it for the sales it may generate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Does Korg treat the CX-3 like Roland has been treating the VK-8? "Oh yeah, we still make that." But good luck finding it in stores? "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Price in UK is still very high... around £1599 or something.. I'm sure it could be got less.. but maybe the lack of availability in general has kept the price high... I'm very happy with mine btw... switching around on real moog, real rhodes and CX3 while playing along with Jamey Aebersold records (esp the Hubbard one) is a helluva lot of fun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucktronix Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I can say I was pretty lucky when my wife went to the Buffalo GC and got a killer deal on my CX3, a Road Warrior flight case and a 2-yr warr, all for just a little over $2k(taxes incl). Kronos 88 Platinum, Yamaha YC88, Subsequent 37, Korg CX3, Hydrasynth 49-key, Nord Electro 5D 73, QSC K8.2, Lester K Me & The Boyz Chris Beard Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT156 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Tuck: I know of one dealer that has one he wants to get rid of for 1500 bucks, which I understand is the cost. He really doesn't sell KB's it the CX-3 is the odd board out. Typically, I hear prices of $1695 or higher just for the organ. Mike T. Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucktronix Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Tuck: I know of one dealer that has one he wants to get rid of for 1500 bucks, which I understand is the cost. He really doesn't sell KB's it the CX-3 is the odd board out. Typically, I hear prices of $1695 or higher just for the organ. Mike T. I got mine about a few years ago when the average cost was over $1,700. There was a dealer in Utica that was selling 'em for $1,500. My wife was able to get the GC in Buffalo to price match. Worth every penny and then some! Kronos 88 Platinum, Yamaha YC88, Subsequent 37, Korg CX3, Hydrasynth 49-key, Nord Electro 5D 73, QSC K8.2, Lester K Me & The Boyz Chris Beard Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT156 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Yeah, I've always been impressed with the CX-3. I guess new clonewheels have slightly "improved" Leslies SIMMS, but of course that's subjective, and marginal at best. I think the build quality of the CX-3 is very good, from the one's that I've seen. Mike T. Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I think that's how I feel Mike... it's as close to the real thing as I could want... I really like the look and feel of the CX3 too.. I don't think I would feel the same with something like the Electro.. although I freely admit it probably has a better sound... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT156 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Orangefunk: From reviews in KB and other things that I've read about the Electro, it sounds a bit more "processed" than the Hammond Clonewheels. I've never read a comparison like that to the CX-3. All this clonewheels are pretty darn good. Drop back 10 and punt! Mike T. Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthiola Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 A few years ago I wrote a tutorial on the CX organ model at korgforums, based on years of experience with the BX3. I'm happy to share my views (below the slightly revised text). Basics The BX/CX offers two sets of (virtual) tone wheels, vintage and clean. When I first started to work on organ programs I found myself automatically selecting the vintage set, because, well vintage is good, isnt? Dont let the label vintage fool you. The clean setting offers some advantages over the vintage set. Obviously the clean set has hardly any leakage noise, but it also gives you cleaner bass and chords. Keep settings for overtone under 10 for a natural tone colour, leakage has no function with the clean set. The vintage set works very well on lead lines en right hand chords. It fattens the sound nice, especially on chorale Leslie settings. You may crank the leakage value all the way up, but even on 0 it still has noticeable effect. For natural effect keep values under 30 and overtone under 15. Choosing between mellow and bright drawbar curve is a matter of taste. The mellow has less scream but is also a bit better balanced and appears less thin. For key click a good starting point is to set both values around 40. For a more pronounced click try increasing the key off instead of the key on! Any setting above 50 will kind of separate the click from the tone, but it may add to a beat up organ sound... On most patches the amount of click is assigned to the mod wheel, so you can easily tweak this on the fly. TIP: when tweaking all these parameters youll probably avoid extreme settings. However, in a busy mix, extreme values are useful to cut through. So dont be too careful. Percussion Getting the perfect percussion level depends on various parameters, such as amp settings and horn mic distance. If you want to cut through a busy mix dont skimp on this. Its best to take the soft setting as reference; normal setting then provides extra punch when needed. Start with 90 for normal with a soft offset of -30. For fast decay choose a setting somewhere between 45 and 55. Shorter decay (30-40) works fine with higher percussion levels. For slow decay choose offset between 20 30 for a start. Amp The colour if the organ sound very much depends on the amp and rotary settings. You can choose between amp1, amp2 or preamp. The latter may be interesting when you use a real Leslie. The other two are modelled amps. The first one gives you the classic Leslie sound, the latter emulates a transistor stack. At least, that's what the book tells you. For me, its just a setting. Amp2 gives a raw sound like an old, beat up tube Leslie if used with low overdrive values under 15. Amp1 will sound more natural, even when pushed to levels over 40. Both amp models can be used in combination with a speaker simulator, which will give some cabinet resonance. The downside of the speaker sim is that it heavily cuts high frequencies, loosing definition and scream. I found that the programs without the sim usually work better in a mix. The amount of overdrive is best tuned together with the mic distance setting as these parameters seem to interact. After setting amp, overdrive and speaker sim, use the EQ to correct tonal balance. Usually boosting the highs a bit helps when the speaker sim is engaged, otherwise try cutting it. Be careful with boosting the mids. It may sound impressive at first, but in the end it thins out the sound and makes cabinet resonance less pronounced. You might want to try external (parametric) EQ for tweaking this. Rotary The horn/rotor balance not only changes the relative volume but also appears to affect the character of the sound. With a balance towards horn, the sound thins out, giving brighter attack, slightly more overtones, but youll loose some of the the cabinet resonance. Keep the balance around: 5050 +/- 10. Changing the balance usually means tweaking other parameters all over again. It's best to set and forget this. When scrolling through mic distance values a couple of things are happening. In general, the shorter the mic distance the more channel separation youll get. But there is also a kind of proximity effect making the sound seem darker with less overtones. The larger the distance, the more the sound opens up with more overtones. But this also makes the leslie effect less defined and fuzzy, especially with high overdrive levels. A setting of 50 is a good starting point for the horn. If you use a lot of overdrive you may want to decrease this value to cut the ear piercing frequencies. For rotor 50 is also a very good starting point. Increase the level for a more resonant low end. As for the mic spread parameters, a setting of 50 approximates a 90 degrees angle, which gives you the most pronounced Leslie effect. Leave this as is. As for the speed settings, this is largely a matter of personal taste. These setting will work fine: fast horn around 90, fast rotor between 80-85, slow horn, between 8 and 12 and slow rotor around 7 or 8. Most of the preset sounds use long transit times for the rotor. For fast paced music you may want to set these parameters to zero, which still leaves some natural acceleration /deceleration. Last but not least These are just a few guidelines and may help you to learn the organ model. Experiment for yourself, use your ears, do whatever sounds good. The most interesting factory sounds (like: onion book, nice perc, soulfullSP) seem to have their own guidelines. Enjoy, regards Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Welcome to the forum! "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Great post Matthiola! Do you save these settings as presets and then set the drawbar mode to manual? To be honest I find the tone saving in the CX3 confusing.. many a time I've dialled an awesome tone and saved it and it hasn't saved.. not sure what I'm doing wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatoboy Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I don't know what's going wrong with your saves. But I 'am always careful about my patch setup buttons on the panel. The gray ones. Remember depending on how you set them up you get different options in terms of Patch and Live and I think Upper an Lower assignments of things if I'm remembering correctly. Not that that has anything to do with a save operation. The assignment of those switches I found to be confusing until I figured them out! I can't really articulate this right now the organ is in the garage in a case. Great post Matthiola! Do you save these settings as presets and then set the drawbar mode to manual? To be honest I find the tone saving in the CX3 confusing.. many a time I've dialled an awesome tone and saved it and it hasn't saved.. not sure what I'm doing wrong... CP-50, YC 73, FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, Kurzweil SP6, XK-3, CX-3, Hammond XK-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthiola Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 As far as I know, all parameters are saved to a program, except: actual DB settings, dedicated EQ/reverb (knobs) and pedal levels. Everything else, including (front panel) V/C, Leslie speed and perc. settings are saved. I think the confusion is caused by the actual DB setting not being saved. But, changing front panel settings on the fly is part of playing the organ anyway. Learning this will improve your skills. Personally, I never switch programs during performance, sometimes only between songs to have a completely different organ sound. Overall, I never use more than 2 or 3 signature sounds, the rest is manual tweaking. Having dual manuals helps to avoid program switching . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 you mean the drawbars aren't saved at all? Thats weird... I'm sure with the presets they are... I would often tweak the presets and hit save thinking that that would save everything... but I guess you are right drawbars aren't rocket science.. but still... convenience I suppose... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatoboy Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 I believe the drawbar setting is saved but you have to make sure the 3 gray button assignments are saved also to 'come up' as designed with the patch in 'patch mode' or something like that. All I can remember is mine is set up to remember or 'recall' the assignments with the 3 gray switches and it saves my last drawbar setting 'write'. There may be an option or parameter If my memory serves me right to set how the switches come up by default for the assignments in Global mode. I'm setting up my XK-3/145 right now for a big show so no CX-3 for me today or I'd just run downstairs and check! maybe someone else knows off the top of their heads, sorry a little pressed for time right now! CP-50, YC 73, FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, Kurzweil SP6, XK-3, CX-3, Hammond XK-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthiola Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 You can set (and change) your DB settings in edit mode (of course). Press [edit], then program button [2]. Check it out. If you change drawbars when you're not in edit mode, DB changes are not saved with the program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 aaaaaahhhhh.. so I have to be in edit mode first? Thats really odd... I would have thought you could hit save when ever you changed something... I don't have my CX3 here (not seen it in 6 months) but will try all this out next month. Many thanks Matthiola and all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyMoe Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I really like the CX-3 as well. I own a XK-3C Pro, CX-3, Voce V3 and VK-8 along with a Leslie 3300. While the XK-3C Pro is my newest addition and sounds the best, the CX-3 has held it's own for me for many years. In a live situation the CX-3 cuts through the mix and I have received many compliments from folks in the audience over the years. You really can't go wrong. By the way, you can typically find a decent used CX-3 for under a $1000, just make sure you upgrade to the newest software load. (ver 2.x) Montage 7, Mojo 61, PC-3, XK-3c Pro, Kronos 88, Hammond SK-1, Motif XF- 7, Hammond SK-2, Roland FR-1, FR-18, Hammond B3 - Blond, Hammond BV -Cherry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 just make sure you upgrade to the newest software load. (ver 2.x) Hi ! Maybe in addition, this is interesting to buy a CX3 used: Holding the '1' and '8' buttons while powering up displays the actual firmware revision. The latest version is: Ipl V2.00 000422AB Holding the 'DISPLAY' button during power up shows two more firmware revisions: These numbers refer to the code loaded in the Master and Subsystem CPUs. The latest revisions available are: M01070501 S00111400 The trigger issue(also over midi)of the keybd.is fixed w/ S/N 000601. Korg replaced the old keyboard by a new one. This issue can´t be fixed by a software/firmware update only. A.C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dttmc Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 Thanks for the responses, everybody! I just discovered this forum and wish I had done so sooner. Based on the threads I've read it looks like this place is filled with friendly and knowledgable people - a nice change of pace from most other musician forums I've read. Matthiola, your advice really helped a lot - my CX-3 is sounding the best it ever has. I still don't like the sound in more exposed situations, but it blends much better with the band now than before. I don't know if I'm going to keep it or not, but at least I can live with it for the time being. KeyMo, how would you say the XK-3C compares to the CX-3? Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthiola Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Here's a classic B3 sound, one of my own. It is a cleaner version of a 'dark B3' that I use a lot. This one has better horn/rotor balance and a very smooth attack. Settings are taken from the BX-3, but should be identical on the CX. You may tweak it to taste from here. Try C3 for example. Parameters: Output 110 Wheel type clean, mellow Overtone 25, Leakage n/a, noise 0 Click on 42, off 18 DB UM 888, LM 838 Perc nrml 90, offset -35, DB att 30 Perc fast 36, offset 40 Amp1, spkr sim ON, gain 8 Tone: all 0 Rev: plate, 1.6, mix 10, pre rot Balance: 55:45 Horn slow 9, fast 90 Rotor slow 8, fast 85 Horn up 7, down 7, stop 20, start 15 Rotor up 30, down 35, stop 40, start 45 Horn mic dist. 75, spread 50 Rotor mic. dist. 65, spread 45 Panel: V/C off perc soft, fast, 3rd Enjoy! Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estork Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I just picked up a Korg CX-3. This is my first organ and I'm really excited. I appreciate the B3 parameters you put up. I have not quite figured out how to input the parameters just yet. I remember seeing another thread with about (4) sets of parameters, but I cannot seem to find that thread again. It may have been on another board. Anyway, if there is any other cool threads for a new CX3 owner please let me know. Take Care, Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Adding a Burn, a Vent and or a Speak Easy pre definitely adds to the realism. I first bought the Hammond Xk-3 ( just prior to the XK-3C ) and guess what, there was something about the XK-3 that was " too much of a good thing". So I bought the CX3, and returned the XK-3. Maybe one of the clone experts ( I am musician first, not gear aficionado) knows what quality ( the chorus ?? ) about the XK-3 that I initially liked, but shortly after buying, became too much? Like enjoying salt taste... at some point it becomes way over the top. You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.