Novation synthesizers

[buttonbashers]

I've recently seen a lot of 2nd hand novation products come onto local markets etc. and they have caught my eye. I Was wondering what you guys think to their products? What are the synthesis capabilities like for models like the KS4/5 and the X-station? I am not interested in the midi functionality and control... simply just messing about making new sounds. They seem to have a lot of knobs to play with.. would it be better to just get a virus or moog??

 

any thoughts? What would be a reasonable price to pay for a synth like ks5 or x-station?

[Mark Schmieder]

The easiest way to find out a fair price, is to search eBay for completed auctions. That will tell you way more than anyone on this forum could tell you from their own narrow experience.

 

The syntehsis capabilities for each model can easiily be found by visiting sonicstate.com, vintagesynth.com, and also reading reviews at harmony-central. In many cases, the vendors keep up information about past models on their site.

 

The Virus, moog, and Novation synths are very differrent in sonic character and capabilities. Only you can answer which is better for your needs and preferences.

 

The Virus and Novation have soft synths available; the former for TDM and Powercore, and the latter for Powercore and Native. It is rumoured that Universal Audio is preparing some sort of moog emulation for the UAD-1 card. There are several existing soft synths based on variojus moog models.

 

Most soft synths have trial demos available. If you need to get a feel for the capabilities and general sonic character of different synths, this is a good way to go. If you then decide you want knlobs and hardware for the convenience and/or for gigging, then at least you'll know what sort of sound and features you want in conjunction with a good controller set.

 

The only available hardware moog today is monophonic. You didn't say what sorts of moog devices you are interested in; new or used, mono or poly, etc. It looks as though you are comparing apples and oranges.

[Yoozer]

The KS-4 and 5 can do more than the A/K-Station (multimode filters, sampled waveforms).

 

I believe the X-station has the A/K-station with more (sampled) waveforms built in as an extra of sorts (it's a controller/audio interface).

 

The V-station software is pretty much identical to the A-station and it's cheap as chips, so you could try the demo out of that to get a feeling for it. The KS4's keys aren't great and the Virus is more capable, but the Novation's easier to work with. The KS series used to have a bug that caused undesired clipping on the oscillators, but I believe that has been resolved with an OS update.

 

In the end it's all about the sound. I own a Virus C and the A-station, used to own the Nova and thought it was a cute and clever synthesizer.

[buttonbashers]

Great stuff, thanks. The moog was merely a reference to acknowledge that there are other synths out there which can compare to what i want. I am aware of all the info available from the net, i always download the manual before i buy a keyboard anyway. I just didn't want to find out horror stories after i purchased one! From the sounds of it, the Novation synthesizers are decent low end machines. I'll buy a copy of v-station just to be sure...

[Mark Schmieder]

Also, this is not widely known, but Novation's Bassstation is an analog synth, not a virtual analog synth. It is meant to be a recreation of the Roland TB303 BassLine, and then some!

 

There is also a soft synth version of that, which I own. My demo license hasn't expired yet for the Powercore version of the Novation, and I haven't used it much yet, but it's pretty creamy and moog-like at times. Not nearly as thick, of course. But it has a warm character missing from some of the other VA's such as Nords and Viruses.

[buttonbashers]

Thanks Mark, Just been looking into all these soft synths.. there are a hell of a lot of them out there. Whats been happening recently? companies giving up on hardware and going for software?? arturia's jupiter synth catches my eye. Any good Roland Juno imitations out there?

[Yoozer]

http://kunz.corrupt.ch/?Products:VST_U-NO-60 but I like the Juno-106 ensemble that's in Reaktor a lot, too.

 

(I do have the real thing plus its little brother, the Alpha Juno 1 and they've got a charm all of its own.)

[MusicWorkz]

I have both the A-Station (hard) and the V-Station (soft) and they are very much my go to synths for basses and leads. The prices are relatively inexpensive, easy to program (the V station at least) when compared to the heavies like Moog and Access, but purely functional and useful.

[Mark Schmieder]

The soft Bassstation is $59, soft V-Station is $79 (or $179 for PoCo version, which has more filters, including moog-emulating ones missing from the standalone/native version). PoCo version of Access Virus (requiring PoCo DSP platform) is around $349.

 

Juipter 8V is Arturia's best emulation yet. Jupiter and Juno sound different, but have similar strengths. The freebie Juno 106 emu pointed to above has a new U-NO-62 update with an entirely different interface. In haven't read carefully yet to see if they're emulating different Junos and if both U-NO-60 and U-NO-62 are considered current. They also have a separate chorus effect from the Juno series that they emulated standalone so that it can be used with other synths.

 

Industry direction is multi-pronged at the moment, but trending towards more focus on usability, more hands-on control, and in the case of soft synths, avoiding aliasing. Some of the older soft synths are still amongst the best, but it's a fast-changing world and a few of the newer ones are now my go-to's (especially G-Force Virtual String Machine, which is so lush you'll wet your pants).

 

The hybrid hard/soft synth is popular these days as well. Most do NOT act as dongles, but a few do. Primarily, hardware manufacturers are trying for better integration with software DAW's, providing full recall features etc. so that DAW projects know what to do when connecting to a hardware synth to recall a certain patch. I have no use for such features as I commit as I go (Old Skool -- my computer would be gtrash by now otherwise, but I consider it a more focused and productive way to work anyway). But for those who leave all tracks unrendered, it's a boon.

 

Live play and studio play do not always have the same needs. A few years ago I tried to consolidate my studio and gigging gear to be one and the same. This proved ineffective in my case, and impractical. I have now gone the opposite direction and barely use anything on stage that I use in the studio. Your needs may differ, but this proves a defining criteria for hard vs. soft vs. hybrid (e.g. Muse Receptor).

[Esteban]

Hello everyone.

 

I am new to the world of synths and midi controllers.

 

I just want to ask on the Novation Remote 25 sl Compact MIDI controller. I want to get one, but I don´t know too much about it.

 

Is it a good buy for a newbie like me?

 

Where can I hear samples created from this controller?

 

Is there an artist using this controller?

 

Thank you for your time and for creating this forum!

 

Sincerely,

Esteban Torres

[Jonathan Hughes]

It's just a controller -- it doesn't make any sound itself, so you need to connect it to something (either a hardware synth or software) to do anything with it.

[RABid]

I've recently seen a lot of 2nd hand novation products come onto local markets etc. and they have caught my eye. I Was wondering what you guys think to their products? What are the synthesis capabilities like for models like the KS4/5 and the X-station? ...

 

I had a KSR (rack version with all the knobs) for a long time. I think it would be a good first synth to learn programming. A Nord Lead 2 would also be good. They have the layout of the old analogs without the headachs of tuning drift.

[Esteban]

Thanks for the reply Jonathan...

 

If I purchase the controller, does it come with the Automap Universal software? I have a laptop.

 

Would it be better to get the Novation XioSynth instead?

 

What can I do with the controller?

 

How good is the Automap Universal software for the Remote 25 sl compact?

 

I am in an alternative rock band, and I want to use this controller for background sounds and musical arrangements... is the controller good enough for this?...

 

or would it be better for me to get another device?

 

Thank you!!!

 

Sincerely,

Esteban Torres

[buttonbashers]

Hey,

from posting this thread i've done a little research in novation products. What your talking about is getting a midi controller and using it to "control" the parameters on another device (be it software vst synth etc.) This is (providing you have the correct audio setup) not to dissimilar from playing a keyboard with the hardware built in the machine, many players choose this option to record in studios and perform live with.

 

As for automap, it is a useful tool for controlling all sorts of software (sequencers, synths) and can save a lot of time if you plan to use many different ones. The remote does have this function in it, have you looked at the novation nocturn? I think it may be a bit cheaper and does the same task with automap - but it does not have a keybed for playing synths with. There are many options out there for midi controllers which can be plugged in (check out m audio products). Automap is quite good, you can also easily tweak the controller to correspond with your software.

 

The xio synth is a neat little synth, with a decent synth in it for the price range, i.e. it makes its own sounds out of the box without the need for purchasing additional vst synths and using a computer to perform/record. The novation x-station is similar to this, except it has a lot more sliders, knobs but the sound quality of the synth is lacking according to some users. The x-station is like a 3 in 1 device.

 

Based on the info you have given, performing in a rock band with a synth may require you to have good control over all the key aspects of synthesis, so perhaps a synth with more controls and sliders is best for you? The rotary method on the xio synth is ok, but isn't as easy and intuitive as the x-station's controls.

 

On another note, depending on your budget there are other keyboard options. Roland Juno-G, a Rom based board has many bread and butter sounds in it as well as some options for changing sounds. The Korg x50 is another good keyboard.

 

Hope this helps!

[RABid]

Automap is not really automatic. It takes some setup and troubleshooting so I don't recommend it for a person new to synths and controllers. The more complicated the controller you get the steeper the learning curve will be.

 

If you are going to use it on stage, get a synth instead of a controller. It is better to learn how to swim BEFORE you jump into the deep end of the pool.

[C.J. Lewis]

Another place that you should try out is www.prepal.com. They monitor eBay/Sonic State/Harmony Central stuff and average prices, # of auctions, etc., etc. It's not always completely up to date with all the newest keyboards, but I think they do a pretty fair job overall. I've saved myself a lot of money/heartache checking there first!

[Esteban]

Thanks a lot everybody, you are sure helping me a lot!

 

According to what all of you say, I believe I need to get another device different from a MIDI controller or a synth.

 

I am the bass player for the alt rock band. But I have noticed that a lot of bands also add synth or MIDI controller sounds (or background sounds) to their music (a good example could be "Discotheque" from U2, perhaps, there´s only 4 official members in the band, we are a 4 member band also).

 

More than anything, I want to get a device that is able to work as a sequencer (or a device that can play sounds that I can program through a computer or through the instrument itself automatically).

 

I don´t know if there is anything close to it?

 

Thank you for your time.

 

-Esteban Torres

 

[RABid]

...

More than anything, I want to get a device that is able to work as a sequencer (or a device that can play sounds that I can program through a computer or through the instrument itself automatically). ...

 

There are a variety of ways to do this. All of them need the setup of a click track going to your drummer to keep things in time. There is a lot of information here and on the web about playing along with a click track. Do a search on that. What you need to decide is how you want to program these parts. Some options.

 

Keyboard workstation which has a built in sequencer. You can program parts by playing the keyboard. Some units also have drum pads.

 

Tabletop sequencer. These are drum machines with lots of extras. You program parts either on pads or by connecting a keyboard.

 

Hybrid tabletop units. They connect to computers and use dedicated software for easy programming and song building. Then you only take the tabletop unit with you to the stage.

 

Laptop computer. Total software solution using drag and drop, point and click, or data entry from a connected keyboard to input parts. Then you have to take the laptop with you on stage or record the songs and play along with recordings.

 

What you get needs to first be determined by the talents of the musicians in the band. If you have a decent keyboard player you can use a keyboard to input the parts. If not, you need a solution that makes use of pre-made loops or point and click song building. What you get also needs more than one set of outputs so that the main song can come out of one stereo pair and the click track can be sent to the drummer without going to the PA.

[Esteban]

Thank´s a lot RABid.

 

I´ve been checking for other options online.

 

One of those is this one...

 

http://keyboards-midi.musiciansfriend.com/product/Behringer-FCB1010-MIDI-Footcontroller-?sku=182469

 

It´s a Behringer MIDI footcontroller.

 

I don´t know if that is a good option for a bass player like me, if I want to "shoot" or play sounds while playing a bass line?

 

The other thing that I have been looking at is at the MIDI pad controllers like these ones.

 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/navigation?q=midi+pad+controllers&st=

 

Where can I find pro´s and cons for that?

 

I don´t know if these are better options for playing sounds on live performances?

 

Thank you.

 

-Esteban

[Mark Schmieder]

Wow, that is an unbelievably blatant ripoff of Roland's foot controller. That takes chutzpah.

 

I'm looking into the Roland and the Yamaha (MFC10), but the Roland has two expression pedals which would be more useful than a ton of momentary switches. This is for interfacing with virtual instruments to get more expressive results.

 

The Yamaha has the WX advantage, but that's about it. I'll probably buy neither though, as it's a lot of money to spend just for a bunch of switches. If every one of them was continuous, it would be a different story, as one could then really get more fluid performances out of sample libraries.