Suzuki Method of Training

[Rocky McDougall]

I have been reading about the Suzuki method of training, where very young children (3-5 yrs old), are totally immersed in music education/environment and the results are extremely successful. I know it is primarily used in Violin and Piano training, has it extended into other instruments?

Rocky

[Ross Brown]

Don't know. My daughter did it with piano. Was good.

[Rocky McDougall]

It probably would not work for Bass Players as a large portion of the training deals with instilling a high level of character.

Rocky

[Ross Brown]

It probably would not work for Bass Players as a large portion of the training deals with instilling a high level of character.

Rocky

[Cthulhu Fhtagn]

I have my doubts about this whole "immersion" education for children so young. It shouts to me more of a parental ego thing than a what's best for the child. I guess in the PR of China you can send slender, agile three year olds to mandatory, state run, "immersion gymnastics" schools, but here in the west that crap doesn't fly.

 

Immersion or not, if the child grows to not like the piano or violin, or has no talent for music, it would just end badly. Would you rather be an OK bassist that loves his instrument, or a bass virtuoso that has a gun pointed at his head (figuratively speaking, of course).

[Rocky McDougall]

Well said Frank, we have seen prodigy musicians over the years that were unbelieveable musicians, but did they miss more important experiences in their childhood? I started playing guitar in 1948, but no one held a gun to my head and I am now just a little better after 60 years. Not much better, just a little better. I did have a wonderful youth drinking beer, driving fast cars and chasing bad girls instead of practicing.

Rocky

[jeremy c]

I've been "immersed in music" for the last 50 years.

 

Did I miss important experiences in my childhood? I don't think so, I'm still in my childhood.

 

I may have missed some important adult experiences.

 

"Mommy, I want to be a musician when I grow up"

"You can't do both"

[tnb]

What Jeremy said.

[Ross Brown]

My daughter must have done it wrong... she liked it.

[jeremy c]

I've seen parents of Suzuki-trained kids practicing along with their kids. The parent had to learn to play as well.

 

I like this idea. I've seen a lot of parents who push their kids into music lessons when actually it is the parent who wants to play an instrument.

[Ross Brown]

I sat with her while she played and listened. I don't believe in being pushy. Usually I would sit and play myself if she didn't feel like it. Then she would want to join. I did not play her songs. i played mine.... was fun.

[Rocky McDougall]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought true Suzuki training was taking a child and putting them in a total music environment where they were actually shielded from all outside influences.

Their attitude, poise, composier etc. was trained to enhance their musical learning.

Rocky

[jeremy c]

I thought the Suzuki method taught young kids how to play music by ear instead of by reading.

 

What do we know.

[Cthulhu Fhtagn]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_violin

 

Still not impressed. A cursory glance at the above lead me to believe that it was Suzuki's vision to create good citizens with an appriciation of art and beatuy with immersion training.

 

Would that imply that if I took my 14 month grandson to nothing but total immersion "Cradle of Filth" concerts and played their CD's all the time (or maybe even Nickelback) and bought him a B.C. Rich Bich with Sustainiac PUPS that somehow he would not make a good citizen? OK, maybe not, but I'm not thinking I want Mr. Suzuki to be the final arbitor on what constitute the "art and music" a child should be immersed in.

 

It still reeks of "statism"; not to mention parental laziness by allowing someone else to make the decisions on whether "total immersion Polka" and accordian lessons are the best thing for my child. I still maintain that only the Far East can pull this off; it doesn't wash in the West.

[davio]

...I'm still in my childhood.

 

Second childhood doesn't count, J.

 

Would that imply that if I took my 14 month grandson to nothing but total immersion "Cradle of Filth" concerts and played their CD's all the time (or maybe even Nickelback) and bought him a B.C. Rich Bich with Sustainiac PUPS that somehow he would not make a good citizen?

 

Probably not due to that fact alone...but it would probably make him pretty good at playing butt rock.

 

That said:

 

The term "Suzuki method" is also sometimes used to refer solely to the Suzuki repertoire of sheet music books and/or audio recordings which have been published as part of its music education method.

 

In my experience with the Suzuki method (I did not go through it but I had classmates that had when they were younger), this exception was seen more as the rule than the descriptions filling the rest of that page. In most cases, teachers used Suzuki method books and sheet music as aids/guides to teach their students by ear and mimicry from very young ages.

 

As far as immersion, from my experience it usually kicks in a little later and manifests itself in the form of "elitist snob."

[jeremy c]

There is a very good description of the Suzuki Method on the Suzuki Association of the Americas website.

 

It sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

[tucsonbassplayer]

I think it's great. Remember that you are learning more than music weather you use the Suzuki method or taking your kids to western music lessons. It's more than music.

[Rocky McDougall]

From the Suzuki website:

 

"Dr. Suzukis goal was not simply to develop professional musicians, but to nurture loving human beings and help develop each childs character through the study of music."

 

Wouldn't it be wonderful if all teachers (and parents) could have this as their goal.

Rocky

 

 

[Luke73]

It seems like a wonderful method to me, to encourage children in music via parent responsibility, loving encouragement and repetition.

 

It certainly washes in my "west".

 

[Cthulhu Fhtagn]

From the Suzuki website:

 

"Dr. Suzukis goal was not simply to develop professional musicians, but to nurture loving human beings and help develop each childs character through the study of music."

 

Wouldn't it be wonderful if all teachers (and parents) could have this as their goal.

Rocky

 

 

Yes. It is a wonderful goal. A lofty goal. A goal we should all be striving for. Certainly the stated goal of most Fascist states. I disagree with the method to get there. Children should be allowed asssit in finding their own "voice" and developing their own path. Three to five year old children aren't in a position to do that.

 

Do I think music is an important part of a well-rounded general education? Yes! Does it bother me that schools are cutting funding for music education (art, drama, et. al.) to invest more money in venues and sports (football, basketball) that make the schools money? Absolutely! Lock my three year old in a room with a piano and a Dvorak CD and become one of those parody parents that live vicariously through their child like those tools on the reality programmes? Not a chance!

[Luke73]

Lock my three year old in a room with a piano and a Dvorak CD and become one of those parody parents that live vicariously through their child like those tools on the reality programmes? Not a chance!

 

Do you actually think that:

 

a: All students of the Suzuki method are given such treatment?

 

b: All students who are given such treatment, are students of the Suzuki method?

 

 

Children should be allowed asssit in finding their own "voice" and developing their own path. Three to five year old children aren't in a position to do that.

 

You're saying three to five year old children are not able to assist in finding their own voice?

 

Wow.

[Cthulhu Fhtagn]

[davio]

Regardless of the name on the method book, locking a kid in a room with a piano isn't good. There will always be those parents who live vicariously through their kids and force them to do things that they (the parent) wanted to do as children or wish they had done as children. The Suzuki method does not force children to play music. Parents force children to play music. There isn't meant to be any forcing of the child's will in any method.

 

My gf's little cousin grew up with a Greek-speaking maternal family, German-speaking paternal side and an au pair from Mexico so she became quad lingual. Was it fascist of her parents to expose her to that many different cultures and languages before she was old enough to make the decision on her own? How can you compare an early exposure to the arts to an attempt to indoctrinate youth with political or extreme moral ideals?

 

Kids don't lose out on being kids because they spent a little time every day (or a few days a week) practicing music.

[Luke73]

I guess all those 3yo's holding signs at the anti-war and anti-abortion ralleys are more savvy than I give them credit for.

 

What the.....?

 

Who ever said anything about anti-abortion rallies?

 

We're talking about music education for children.

 

I have a two and a three year old, and I can assure you, they've both well and truly begun to develop their voice as individuals.

 

Of course locking a child in a room and forcing them to play any instrument is a bad idea, but that's not what I get from the descriptors of the Suzuki Method. Some parents behave that way regardless of the method, and it's very sad.

 

My kids have a bunch of musical instruments in their play room. They have a guitar, a keyboard, some bongos, a ukulele, a xylophone, a couple of recorders.

 

They're not forced at all to practice any of them, but they love playing them. Whenever I pick up my bass to practice they run out to grab one of their instruments and join me in my study for a "concert". Even at the age of two and three they express themselves with these instruments, and they have a ball doing it!

 

Will I encourage them to take up formal training in an instrument when they show any signs of interest - I sure will! I won't force them into anything, but I'll give them plenty of support, encouragement and direction.

 

 

[Rocky McDougall]

What I gathered from the information on Suzuki trainig is the Oriental style of teaching that is centered around discipline. We have all seen Oriental piano and violin players that were unbelieveably talented. There is a lot to be said for good discipline at early ages for children. I only wish I would have taught more discipline to my two sons who are no in their mid 40's. Their life would have been much better. It is my fault, I just did not know the importance.

Rocky

[Luke73]

Well said Rocky. Discipline is a good thing. It does not have to imply an evil fascist regime.

 

[davio]

"'Asians' are people, 'Orientals' are rugs."

[Luke73]

Oriental

Oriental O`ri*en"tal ([=o]`r[i^]*[e^]n"tal), a. [L.

orientalis: cf. F. oriental.]

Of or pertaining to the orient or east; eastern; concerned

with the East or Orientalism; -- opposed to occidental; as,

Oriental countries.

[1913 Webster]

 

The sun's ascendant and oriental radiations. --Sir T.

Browne.

[1913 Webster]

 

-- From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48

 

Oriental O`ri*en"tal, n.

1. A native or inhabitant of the Orient or some Eastern part

of the world; an Asiatic.

[1913 Webster]

 

2. pl. (Eccl.) Eastern Christians of the Greek rite.

[1913 Webster]

 

-- From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48

 

[davio]

Main Entry: ori·en·tal

Pronunciation: \ˌȯr-ē-ˈen-təl\

Function: adjective

Date: 14th century

1 often capitalized : of, relating to, or situated in Asia

2 a: of superior grade, luster, or value b: being corundum or sapphire but simulating another gem in color

3 often capitalized sometimes offensive : Asian

4 capitalized : of, relating to, or constituting the biogeographic region that includes Asia south and southeast of the Himalayas and the Malay Archipelago west of Wallace's line

ori·en·tal·ly \-təl-ē\ adverb

 

-- From Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary

 

The bold part is was I was getting at. Not that I've ever cared that much about politically correct terminology, but...

 

Anyway, getting back to the subject at hand...?

[Luke73]

OK...back on topic.

 

 

You're a rug.