Slightly OT: arranging for pop orchestra?

[Frifno]

Hi everyone,

 

I am involved in a project that will require arranging of a number of songs for a 20-piece pop orchestra (w/ rhythm section, brass and strings). I have some previous arranging experience, mostly for voices and small ensembles, and see this as a good opportunity to try my hands at something larger.

 

I was wondering if any KC members could recommend some literature, scores and/or CDs that could serve as learning tools for this kind of job. Ideally, I'd like a book that breaks down arrangements in the pop/rock idiom and features examples in both written and recorded form.

 

Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

Regards,

Claes

[linwood]

I find myself looking at Sammy's book often. It's great and lots of practical info in there. Tons. I know you said pop/rock and SN is more big band, but it's all good and everyone should have this book anyway. A cd comes with it with all the audio examples.

 

http://www.sammynesticomusic.com/

 

For scores....off the top of my head, go to Vince Mendoza's site and buy one or two of his. Make your charts look like his and your gold.

 

http://www.vincemendoza.net/

 

[Mike Davis]

 

This one is very pop oriented:

 

'Arranging Techniques for Synthesists' by Eric Turkel

 

http://www.amazon.com/Arranging-Techniques-Synthesists-Eric-Turkel/dp/082561130X

 

 

[cnegrad]

Thanks for Vince's link!

[Frifno]

Thanks a lot, guys! I'll be looking into these tips for sure.

[Blue JC]

I really like the Nelson Riddle book "Arranged By Nelson Riddle". It's my favorite right now. I also refer to the Sammy Nestico book and the David Baker books quite a bit.

[Dave E]

Hi Frifno. My day job is orchestrating... I'm self taught for the most part, so I'm not much help in the area of reference books, but here's a project that may or may not give you some ideas. I did this orchestration for a Gospel project a few years ago (not Pop, but related). The artist is Will Bonds and IOP. You can hear a different version of the song on Youtube.

 

Here's the track - rhythm and vocals basically done:

 

DivShare File - 01 Rejoice - rough mix 1.mp3

 

Will asked for intimate, small sections - so we recorded a string quartet that does weddings here in town. They're some of the younger, hipper members of the Symphony. We recorded two passes, then another pass of just the violins - so 10 players, though it never sounds the same as 10 players at once would sound. The horns tracked twice, with each take panned hard left and right. A lot of it is the same three notes with the Trombone and Tenor swapping parts. Occasionally, it breaks out into fuller voicings, but only for a hit here and there. This is a standard studio trick for warming up the sound of a small section without sounding like more players.

 

Anyway, here's my score:

 

DivShare File - Rejoice.pdf

 

And here's the final mix:

 

DivShare File - 02 Rejoice.mp3

 

Perhaps there's idea here you can use. I'd gladly give you some feedback as you work, if you want to PM a score to me. It would be very easy if you're working in Finale to e-mail ideas back and forth.

 

Dave

[linwood]

Nice Dave!

[Dave E]

Thanks Linwood. Some time I'd like to pick your brain on that "equal interval" concept.

[Frifno]

Thanks a lot for the audio and score, it's exactly what I'm looking for! I also greatly appreciate your feedback offer. The project is just getting started and the arranging itself is a couple of months down the road, but I'll be sure to get in touch then.

 

Once again, thanks to all who have contributed to this thread so far!

 

Regards,

Claes

[Mike Davis]

Hey Dave E -- I tried to look at the score but it's displaying sideways. How do you flip it a quarter turn?

[Dave E]

That's the best I could do with Divshare... You can print it - or just tip your monitor over on it's side...

[Frifno]

A question for completeness' sake: are the rhythm section's charts as precisely notated as the strings and horns, or do they just have a lead sheet? Or something in between?

[Dave E]

You have to walk a line with rhythm sections between not enough and too much information: A chart with nothing but changes doesn't really specify a groove, but too many things written out creates a clutter that hides the important details. If you want specific bass lines or figures, either melodic or rhythmic, write them out. When a figure is repeated over and over, it's better to shift to slashes or one/two bar repeats... That way when you get to a measure with something different - a kick or a break - it stands out on the page.

[reidmc]

There are lots of good books on this subject, and there is usually something useful in every one of them. That said, I would encourage you to look at books outside the big-band world, which can be a bit same-y.

 

A pretty simple book that uses (mostly) classical material for reference is "Arranging Music for the Real World," by Vince Corozine. Some of his arrangements are kind of corny, but the book is full of excellent concepts to use and evaluate.

 

Also, if these arrangements are to be used live, as opposed to recording, or in addition to recording, keep in mind that in live performance you will have natural acoustics in play and less control than in the studio. Live arrangements of larger groups need to be simpler and have more open space than recorded arrangements, even if things are miked to the teeth for sound reinforcement. And in general, I would say that trying to do too much is the biggest mistake that new arrangers for large ensembles make, particularly in live situations.

 

Finally, track down and listen to a bunch of recordings of groups this size and note what you think works and what doesn't work.

[Mark Schmieder]

Is that the David Baker who heads up the Jazz Dept. at my alma mater, Indiana University? I think I remember him writing such a book.

[linwood]

I was lookin' for a pattern to use for an ending and thought I'd post this train of thought.

 

Maybe I'll use a min triad, say Am and move it in m3's with voice leading.

http://www.bellmusicproductions.com/clientdownloads/1.jpg

 

Now, what else could I stack on that to get more of a bitonal thing going on. I could easily put a G triad on top of an Am. Move it the same way.

http://www.bellmusicproductions.com/clientdownloads/2.jpg

 

Now put them together

http://www.bellmusicproductions.com/clientdownloads/3.jpg

 

I want the last chord to be different, so I'l just move everything a half step

http://www.bellmusicproductions.com/clientdownloads/4.jpg

 

Now I want some movement on top. If you look at the voice leading, 1 (of the G) is going to 5 (of the Bb). So I can move 1 to 7 to 5 and just keep that going through the pattern. On the second to last chord, I'm going to swap two tones rather that keep that same movement. These two tones will just change places.

http://www.bellmusicproductions.com/clientdownloads/5.jpg

 

 

Now maybe I'll change the roots

http://www.bellmusicproductions.com/clientdownloads/6.jpg

Maybe I'll change the last root to Db....who knows. Anywho Dave E, there's a little eis for you. It's written in half notes so it's easy to see what's goin' on, but I'd use 1/4's and 1/8's

 

[Mike Davis]

Linwood, you are amazing and excellent as always.