hocus-pocus

[Guest]

.

[xmlguy]

Everything about this smells like Snake Oil Quackery. If by checking it out you mean to send real money to a Quack expecting a magik listening device, good luck with that. Use a credit card with fraud protection, and only if the seller offers a full refund policy so that you can go back to the credit card to get your money back.

[bloodyMary]

emmm..sounds unconvincing to me. 'transmits sound directly to the brain' through skin? hmm.. is the brain connected to the skin?

[Guest]

 

 

[xmlguy]

My primary response to your reply: Non sequitur

 

Only one kind of snake oil per thread please. Yeah, get back to us once you've been personally cured.

 

Let me guess. You didn't use a credit card, right? No full return policy, right?

 

 

[Guest]

hocus-pocus

[Guest]

hocus-pocus

[xmlguy]

Feel free to believe whatever bullshit you want.

 

Sounds like the Neurophone is perfect for listening to your entire ultrasonic music collection. Maybe you could enjoy what your neighborhood Dogs have been listening to for years?

[Guest]

hocus-pocus

[xmlguy]

Maybe you could lose another 52# using Placebo Tea. Doesn't seem to take a lot to prove something to you. You seem convinced that your magik listening device will work without having experienced it yourself, so which is better: believing something without experience, or not believing without experience. Based on how you seem to see connections between unrelated things, I'll be less convinced with the report coming from you than before you posted your replies.

 

I don't reject new notions out of hand just because I reject your notions based on the lack of credibility of the evidence you've offered so far. For example, I believe that the Cochlear implant is a viable option for some deaf people who choose to try it, even though I've never tried it and I'm not deaf. I've also seen credible evidence that supports it, unlike what you've provided to this point. So I'll read whatever experience you share after trying it.

[Dave Pierce]

Now boys...

 

 

--Dave

[Guest]

hocus-pocus

[Guest]

I'm done Dave.

[xmlguy]

Only one of us is name calling, and it wasn't me. I also didn't misquote you because I didn't quote you. It is "your" device when you say that you "will check it out the device". "Your" doesn't mean that I implied that you designed, invented, or are selling it. In the context of my reply, it refers to the device that you will possess in order to check it out.

 

You are under the mistaken impression I care about your Tea, Meditation, Biofeedback, Acupuncture, Milk Alergies, and Galileo, or that these topics have any relevance to the subject of this thread.

 

I also didn't dispute the credibility of your friend that you trust. I only wonder exactly what he hears in the 30KHz range that would be of any interest to humans. I can see why Batman might find it useful for echo location.

 

[Guest]

hocus-pocus

[SK]

I don't want to get in the middle here, and I don't know about this particular product, but I have heard that sound can be transmitted to the brain from the jawbone - bypassing the ear - which tallies with the description of sound traveling through bone. I read about some cutting edge cell phones being tested using this approach. So I wouldn't write it off ... nor do I know how well it works. But it is hopeful.

[Bosendorphen]

And stem cells growing new hair cells in the ear isn't far fetched. A recent story about stem cells regrowing a man's severed finger was quite interesting.

[BluesKeys]

I sold a hearing testing device for several years that would use mastoids(wires and a sticky pad with connections) attached behind each ear and one on your forehead. It was a test to see if the nerve from your cochlea was send info to the brain. You use this after a failed hearing test and it would tell you if it was nerve damage or an inner ear problem.

 

 

[xmlguy]

boompa37, your continuing use of name calling only serves to show how incapable you are at making any case to support your views.

 

Semantics? Yes, words do have meanings, like when you say I misquote you even though I didn't quote you.

 

Here's a quote:

 

From a phenomenally multi-talented pro I know, HOPE!:

 

"Hi. In regards to loss of High frequencies, I was born with frozen ossicles and have never been able to hear well with my ears. I have used bone conduction for years with great results. Then, I bought a neurophone by Patrick Flanagan. Wow. This device bypassses the ear altogether and Now I can experience 30K and more . Just hook it to your skin. Amazing"

 

That's me quoting you, and you were quoting your buddy saying he can experience 30K and more. That's what quotes are for, to tell who is quoting who. Thus follows my questioning what he might hear at 30K that would be of any interest to humans.

 

You apparently don't understand what placebo means. Placebos work. That's the problem: they work but not for the expected or predicted reasons. That you saw benefits at the same time that you used the substance is an interesting anecdote. But it doesn't in any way show that the substance is more effective than a placebo precisely because placebos work, resulting in the placebo effect where a benefit is seen merely due to receiving any treatement at all, but not necessarily due to the substance being tested. To be precise, I didn't call the Tea you used "Placebo Tea," as if it was a derogatory term that indicated it didn't work. I have no idea how well it works. A placebo is something innocuous that's used instead of the substance being tested. This is done to test all kinds of treatments, including many that work better than placebos alone. So a Placebo Tea would be some other tea that is substituted for the XYZ Tea. It also doesn't mean that you are easily duped, because plenty of smart, well-meaning scientists have been mislead by the placebo effect, particularly when there are clear positive benefits but less benefit than a placebo, showing that the substance is actually harmful despite the benefits seen.

 

But the Tea, Acupuncture, the roundness of the world, the persecution of Galileo were all irrelevant distractions you brought up. That basic argument is X can't be false because A, B, C seem false but aren't (in your view), and doesn't hold water. It's just another logical fallacy that can be easily dismissed regardless of the truth of the claims about A, B, C. It's a non sequitur. The claim about A, B, C have no bearing on the truth of the claim about X.

 

If you can't make a point without calling names, then perhaps you should stop posting at this point. If something works to restore your hearing loss, regardless of how credible it seems, I can't blame you for wanting to try it. I've seen plenty of people who have been duped by all kinds of Quack Doctors with Quack treatments and products, but you don't seem to be one of them if you are able to try it without expense or risk if it doesn't work out. Same goes for your tea, if it works for you, great. My initial post and reaction was in response to what I saw on the links that you posted.

 

The Neurophone promoters don't even seem to claim anything about restored hearing benefits.

 

http://www.neurophone.com/FAQ.pdf

 

Here's a quote from this FAQ:

 

Q: What can I expect to feel when I use the Neurophone?

A: The Neurophone® is an experimental device and Flantech does not make any

claims regarding any benefit. We do, however, receive a significant amount

of feedback and testimonials from Neurophone® users, indicating reports of

greater coherence of thought, greater ability to focus ones attention, a

sense of well being, increased memory retention, accelerated learning,

more restful sleep and an ability to achieve a deeper relaxation.

 

Q: I have been profoundly deaf for 26 years; will the Neurophone® allow me

to hear again?

A: We can not make any medical claims nor do we endorse the use of the

Neurophone® to help people who have any kind of hearing disorder. The

Neurophone® is an ultrasonic neural stimulator and as such is purely an

experimental device. We do offer a 30-day trial period, and we will gladly

refund the purchase price less the shipping as long as the neurophone is

returned in re-saleable condition.

 

Anyone reading this thread should be able to make a reasonable assessment of the "Snake Oil" quality of the Neurophone if they read that full FAQ and see all the potential benefits of using it.

[xmlguy]

The device looks like it's a $250 ultrasonic pink noise generator, maybe a modulator, with transducers. I could probably build one for less than $20 in parts.

[Dave Horne]

If this works we'll read about it in the New England Journal of Medicine after its been subjected to peer reviewed, double blind tests.

 

If it doesn't work, we'll read about it in the back of magazines with lots or anecdotal .... evidence.

[Dave Horne]

Well Doctor Miller's Holy Tea sounds like snake oil also, but I lost 38 pounds in 2 months from end of January to end of March, 52 pounds total so far, I took a few weeks break recently. 212# then, 170# now: ...

 

I looked at 'Doctor Miller's' web site ... Doctor Millers Holy Tea is not a drug, nor intended to diagnose, treat or cure any disease or illness. You should consult with your physician before starting this or any other cleansing exercise or weight management program.

 

I'm guessing you lost weight because you burned more calories than you ingested.

 

 

[daBowsa]

Smells like advert spam to me. But maybe I should have my smelling checked?

[Dave Horne]

To further pursue this ... from that web site:

 

Regular users of the Neurophone® notice:

 

A harmonizing feeling of being grounded in thoughts and action

 

Relaxation though listening to pink noise or external audio

 

Increased learning potential while listening to audio books or foreign languages

 

Increased concentration and focus

 

Increased auditory sensation

 

I have no idea how someone can test a harmonizing feeling of being grounded in thoughts and action, let alone what that's supposed to mean.

 

I get the feeling this site is taking advantage of people who are either stupid or easily influenced, but that's just my personal opinion.

 

I Googled the ... doctor who sells this product, a Dr. Patrick Flanagan. If you have any doubts re this man and his products, a quick trip to link to site will put everything in perspective.

 

The guy's a quack. He can sue me for slander if he wishes.

 

[xmlguy]

My biggest concern is the safety of subjecting one's brain to constant ultrasonic "neural stimulation". It's one thing to have a trained professional medical imaging technician use prenatal ultrasound to image a pregnant mother for several minutes to check the health of the baby because the benefits probably outweigh the risk of short term exposure. But it's quite another to have ultrasonic tranducers on your head for hours at a time with a device that hasn't been approved for that specific purpose by the FDA.

 

Ultrasound is used for jewelry cleaners. Ultrasound contains sonic energy that generates heat and can create cavitation that releases dissolved gasses in liquids. The brain is surrounded by liquid. I'd want to see a LOT of research before using any ultrasound on my head. Neural "stimulation" may be mistaken for neural damage, increased risk of a cerebral aneurysm or fatal stroke.

 

Here's a warning by the FDA:

 

FDA Cautions Against Ultrasound 'Keepsake' Images

 

[kanker.]

I get the feeling this site is taking advantage of people who are either stupid or easily influenced

Drummers?

[WWW]

I am open minded....but I am afraid this blew my cork:

 

"at the age of 12, Patrick Flanagan shook up the Pentagon with his guided missile and atomic bomb detector"

[Guest]

 

 

PS: a personal note to xmlguy: I truly apologize for the name-calling. I can't believe I resorted to that. No excuses just a possible reason due to severe lack of sleep over the last two days had me unusually agitated last night. I'm just glad my family members were asleep.

[alvin13]

"at the age of 12, Patrick Flanagan shook up the Pentagon with his guided missile and atomic bomb detector" Yep, wouldn't leave home without mine. I also have the Life from Outer Space Detector "Rings Around Uranus" edition. I've avoided several extra terrestial tight spots with that one.javascript:void(0)

[xmlguy]

PS: a personal note to xmlguy: I truly apologize for the name-calling. I can't believe I resorted to that. No excuses just a possible reason due to severe lack of sleep over the last two days had me unusually agitated last night. I'm just glad my family members were asleep.

 

Apology fully accepted, B37. We all have our moments of indiscretion, and I'll be the first to admit that I've done the same. I think that these text forums tend to promote miscommunication and flames because the tone of voice and vocal inflection that we usually rely upon to gauge the intent of others has been stripped down to the bare written word.