New Kurzweil PC3 updates released; organ tweaked....

[ErikH]

along with other stuff there is a...

 

NEW KB3 MODE!!

 

With improvements in both soundware and software, we've greatly improved the sound quality and accuracy of our KB3 organ simulator. Our main focus was on sounds used by live players, so the FX chains are a bit large. We went all-out to give our users the best possible B3 emulations.

 

In software, we fixed the lower tonewheels, drawbar EQ, Percussion, Keyclick and Leslie simulations. In soundware, we tweaked the Leslie ramp up times, mic levels and positions and added some cool tricks with gain staging and distortion.

 

We decided to use the sustain pedal as the default secondary Leslie speed switch. The sustain effect has been disabled on all KB3s. We highly recommend the use of a CC pedal for volume swells.

 

In addition to the many new KB3 programs, we've added a few VAST organs as well, at ID #s 184 and 959-961.

 

We also added 4 new "Dual Manual" setups (starting at ID 90) which use a VAST organ on the left half of the keyboard and a KB3 on the right, both have Leslie switch on the sustain pedal....

 

(there's more, too)

 

If you have a PC3 or PC3x, go update...

[Sven Golly]

Woot!

 

Thanks very much, Erik... I've not been checking the SonikMatter site nor the Kurzweil site this week. Much appreciated!

 

SG

 

[Dave Bryce]

 

Hooray for the sustain pedal changing to leslie speed. That function is one of my favorite things about the Electro....after all, who needs a sustain pedal when they're playing organ?

 

dB

[Sven Golly]

Damn, no time to do the update before my gig tonight... Really wanted to check out the new KB3 organs.

 

Hmmm.... methinks I'll drag the laptop along and do the update once I'm set up. If that ain't tempting fate, I don't know what is...

 

I've got my Motif ES7 along for backup, so... hmmmmm....

 

Wish me luck if I get foolhardy and actually do this!

 

[Phil B]

Only now I have to retrain my feet. I hit my second pedal like 10 times tonight, even knowing about the switch.

 

The KB3 sounds great I think.

 

 

Hooray for the sustain pedal changing to leslie speed. That function is one of my favorite things about the Electro....after all, who needs a sustain pedal when they're playing organ?

 

dB

[King Julien]

 

Hooray for the sustain pedal changing to leslie speed. That function is one of my favorite things about the Electro....after all, who needs a sustain pedal when they're playing organ?

 

dB

 

Yeah, one of my favourite functions for the XK-3 as well.

 

[MoodyBluesKeys]

I upgraded my PC3X to OS 1.20 Friday. Huge difference in the KB3 organ sounds. First off, there are about twice as many of the factory presets.

 

Second (and this from a person who serviced real B3/Leslie instruments for over 25 years), they sound really good now. My PC2X or K2661 KB-3 is usable some, but nothing extra, I have been using Native Instruments B4 on a notebook computer when I wanted a real Hammond sounds. Won't need to do that any more.

I haven't yet tried these new sounds in gig, but my feeling is that they will really cut through. The PC3 has really grown a set of ballz in the clonewheel department with this change.

 

Jim

 

[C.J. Lewis]

You guys are killin' me - both of my PC3's are out on demo right now - I haven't played one in 2 weeks!

[Dave Bryce]

The PC3 has really grown a set of ballz in the clonewheel department with this change.

Agreed. I tried it the other night as the lower manual to the Electro's upper...much mo' betta now.

 

dB

[Tobias Åslund]

I feel a bit of G.A.S comin' on... Does anybody have any mp3 demos?

[Chuckers]

I upgraded my PC3X to OS 1.20 Friday. Huge difference in the KB3 organ sounds... Second (and this from a person who serviced real B3/Leslie instruments for over 25 years), they sound really good now...

 

I have not played a real B3 myself, and I'm not a real drawbar-puller (now now, keep it clean). But I know what sounds good to me, and to me the new KB3 Mode is killer. As much as I love my PC3, I have to say I was a bit let down by the organs in earlier OS versions. Not anymore - I'm very pleased now.

 

[Postman]

You guys have the patience of Job! Nice of you to support Kurzweil while they finish their product.

[MikeT156]

Its too bad that Mfg have to rush products to market before they are really ready. Some folks that demoed the PC3 early rendition were under-impressed. Not a good marketing ploy to me.

 

Mike T.

[Sven Golly]

You guys have the patience of Job! Nice of you to support Kurzweil while they finish their product.

 

Not about patience at all. Even before these last 2 updates, the instrument has been more than suitable for everything I've thrown at it, from live playing to recording sessions.

 

This is just icing on the cake, which might eventually lead to me leaving my clonewheel at home.

 

[eric]

Hey, sorry if this has been covered before, but don't remember reading a lot about it. Can someone talk a bit more about the semi-weighted keyboard action on the PC3? I've played the PC3X a bit at NAMM, but did not really get my hands on the PC3. Is this same action used in any other boards? How does it compare to other semi-weighted actions like Nord?

 

Thanks,

Eric

[Dave Bryce]

You guys have the patience of Job! Nice of you to support Kurzweil while they finish their product.

I didn't buy it for the organs - they're icing to me.I bought it because I love the VAST engine. It makes sense to me, and it's still clearly one of the most flexible and powerful engines ever designed, if not THE most, from a hardware POV...and it's been around long enough that I'm sure we can all agree that it's quite finished.

 

Plus, I just like the way the thing sounds. The pianos, EPs, clavs and synths that I did buy it for are exactly what my taste wants to hear, and the orchestral and string patches are excellent. The ensemble orchestral patches are some of the best I've evere played in a ROMpler. The weight and size of the unit are ideal for my car and for moving it a bunch. The semi-weighted keyboard is fast and smooth enough for synths, but gives me enough resistance that it's not odd for me to play acoustic piano on it.

 

All this stuff was done when I bought mine, except for the new Super Saw wave they just added, and I thought the VAST/VA1 programs that were already there was pretty great without that. I also really like the way that their programs aren't glammed up just so they impress in music stores...

 

Mind you, the first time I played it, it wasn't cooked enough for me, either, so I don't entirely disagree with your original statement...just trying to express that for all intents and purposes, this thing really is ready for prime time. I imagine they'll continue to do upgrades and changes for the life of the thing - the ease with which the main OS and objects can be upgraded/added was actually a pretty major plus for me in getting it.

 

dB

[David Loving]

To pick up where eric left off, does the pc3 keyboard feel like the pc2?

[Dave Bryce]

To pick up where eric left off, does the pc3 keyboard feel like the pc2?

I can't comment - I've never really played a PC2...

 

dB

[Postman]

Well, good, I'm glad you're all happy with the new beast. The reviews (from the usual forums) have been stellar. And believe me, if I could trim about 40 lbs off of my K2600X, I'd do it in a flash.

 

Still, I'm a little perturbed that the OS wasn't finished when they released it (and the lack of a manual suggests that it isn't even completely designed), especially since the functionality that people reported as broken is functioning in the K2600's OS. I understand that a lot of these issues have already been addressed.

 

But I'm a fan of Kurzweil, so I'm happy they've got a smokin' product out there.

[eric]

To pick up where eric left off, does the pc3 keyboard feel like the pc2?

I can't comment - I've never really played a PC2...

 

dB

 

dB, can you comment about the PC3 action? How does it compare to the Electro or other semi-weighted actions?

 

Thanks,

E

[Dana.]

Eric,

 

I got my hands on a PC3 recently and thought it felt like a SP76/88. Personally, I don't like that action -- the springs rebound too quickly. It might be OK for organ, but I would never want to play piano (or even electric piano) on it.

 

In comparison to the Electro, the keys are longer and, as I recall, have more resistance. Assuming Kurzweil still uses Fatar actions, I think they would've been wiser to use the Nord Stage's medium-weighted action for the PC3.

 

Hope that helps.

[Dave Bryce]

dB, can you comment about the PC3 action? How does it compare to the Electro or other semi-weighted actions?

Adjectives and keybeds...always challenging.

 

Well, the Electro's action is definitely lighter - that part is easy. Probably one of the reasons I gravitate more towards playing organ on it.

 

When I think of a semi-weighted action, I tend to think of the ones in the PEK, or the old A70. The PC3's is heavier than that...it's much more reminiscent to me of my old K1000, which had a Hammond Suzuki keybed that I liked a lot.

 

Does that help?

 

dB

[eric]

dB, can you comment about the PC3 action? How does it compare to the Electro or other semi-weighted actions?

Adjectives and keybeds...always challenging.

 

Well, the Electro's action is definitely lighter - that part is easy. Probably one of the reasons I gravitate more towards playing organ on it.

 

When I think of a semi-weighted action, I tend to think of the ones in the PEK, or the old A70. The PC3's is heavier than that...it's much more reminiscent to me of my old K1000, which had a Hammond Suzuki keybed that I liked a lot.

 

Does that help?

 

dB

 

Thanks dB, that does help. Let me ask a similar question in a slightly different way. I know you have a Motif ES8 and are accustomed to digging into this weighted action for piano sounds (plus you have a nice acoustic piano). How much of a tradeoff is it to NOT have that weighted action and did it take you long to acclimate?

 

Thanks,

E

[ErikH]

Its too bad that Mfg have to rush products to market before they are really ready. Some folks that demoed the PC3 early rendition were under-impressed. Not a good marketing ploy to me.

 

Mike T.

Bitch much?

 

Why the freak are you complaining about the release of a board you don't own, when the problems you are (and shouldn't be) complaining about are already fixed?

[Dave Bryce]

Bitch much?

 

Why the freak are you complaining about the release of a board you don't own, when the problems you are (and shouldn't be) complaining about are already fixed?

Ahh, Mike's just commenting on something that plagues all of us. Vaporware sucks, period. It never ceases to amaze me that companies think it's a good idea to announce products before they're ready to ship, and I think it's fair to say that this was an especially interesting and drawn out example of same....

 

Of course, I could be wrong, and brother Mike could just be bitching for sport...

 

@ Eric -

 

Nah, I don't miss the ES8's action much, especially given the tradeoff of the weight and size. I'm not really doing nuanced/solo type piano on this gig - just bashing LittleFeat, Joe Cocker, Chicago, etc. The PC3's keybed is fine for that. Hated trying it on the Nord - in addition to that not so great acoustic piano sample, the keybed just didn't feel right for acoustic piano to me, even though it 's fine for EPs. Go figure...

 

dB

[marino]

People are strange....

 

Before the PC3 was released, *everybody* complained that Kurz couldn't do it, that it was waporware, they couldn't fix the bugs, etc., and everybody wanted the instrument in their hands right away.

 

So when they did release it (as soon as they could, I guess), everybody complained that it wasn't finished, that some functions didn't work, etc.....

 

I think it's best to resign ourselves - designing instruments at that high a level is not easy, and Kurzweil is a smaller company than the big three.

I'd also say that they were rather quick releasing the OS updates.

Personally, I'm very glad that they survived such troubled times - and their own fans.

 

Only complain... The PC3 doesn't really belong to the PC series... is more a full synth like the K series. So why the *%ç# didn't they include sample RAM...?!?

I could have waited even a bit more - then I would have bought it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dave Bryce]

So why the *%ç# didn't they include sample RAM...?!?

I could have waited even a bit more - then I would have bought it.

I thought about that as well....

 

I, too, used to depend a lot on my sample RAM with my older VAST synths...but this one has a bunch of extra user ROM, and many of it's instruments are quite excellent for live use as well as studio, so I find I miss having it quite a bit less than I thought I would. I wouldn't hate a bigger piano, but I'm hoping maybe someone like Mr. Ierardi will carve us a nice expansion block from his Ivory samples - AFAIK, his relationship with Kurzweil is still strong.

 

I'm guessing you, like me, have a large library of Kurz samples. What samples from your library would you want? Would you use something like this live, or more studio? Do you typically use samples live?

 

Curious what a fellow VAST head is thinking...

 

dB

[Mike Martin]

Only complain... The PC3 doesn't really belong to the PC series... is more a full synth like the K series. So why the *%ç# didn't they include sample RAM...?!?

I could have waited even a bit more - then I would have bought it.

 

Its not that different from Yamaha's strategy. The S90 series has always been almost identical from the Motif series with the exception of sampling.

 

Personally I need a board with the controller features of the PC3X - without the size of either a Motif E,X8 or even a K2600X. When I need more, I'll take out the K2600R or a laptop.

 

 

[Analogaddict]

The PC3 is what it is - a Performance Controller with a great sound ROM and incredible controller features. I don't know any other keyboard with 20 (or 21, if you count the upcoming ribbon) fully assignable controllers per patch. Add the 16 arpeggiators, riffs and other software controls, plus 2 x midi out and USB midi - all assignable per setup part - playing the PC3 is sort of like having a third hand... I couldn't replace it with anything else.

[marino]

I'm guessing you, like me, have a large library of Kurz samples.

I have several dozens of Kurz sample CDs. I've spent an inordinate amount of money buying them, and an inordinate amount of my life's time tweaking them to my needs. That's why I'm so reluctant to let them go; I strongly hope that the next generation of the K series retains sample compatibility... in fact, not having it would probably be a deal-breaker for me.

Also, it looks like people working on the Kurz platform are usually very dedicated to quality and originality; the average level of those sample disks is very high.

 

What samples from your library would you want?

Well, for pianos, it's not a secret that Mike Martin's KeySolutions Steinway has been my main sampled piano for many years (still is on stage!). I've tweaked his programs a bit for my own touch.

For EPs, I usually start with the 'Real Rhodes' collection; I've built a very playable EP by tweaking the 1976 Mark II, then layering a bit of a Wurlitzer sample, which only plays at high velocities, and finally adding EQ and quad chorus from KDFX.

For strings, I find Kirk Hunter's "Virtuoso Series" very warm and detailed. Maybe it's not on par with the modern multigiga stuff, but it's very tweakable, and with the right expressive controls, it can sound full and convincing.

For percussion, things like "Up from the Curb" and "Silk Road" have a bunch of ready-to-go stuff for spicing up rhythms.

I'm still a fan of the "Take 6" collection. The original disk has little to do with the poor, compressed, looped, and weak-sounding series which you find on the PC2 and MicroEnsemble. It's an exceptionally well done collection, with fantastic possibilities for expressive gestures.

For electronic music and effects, I've used Bolder Sound's "Granular" quite a bit, and the two volumes of "Distorted Reality". With them, I made ambient music for TV, art exhibitions, etc. I also have things like samples of circuit-bent machines, and other strange things.

I've also sampled my own (software) granular synthesis, vocal synthesis, etc., for further processing with VAST.

You asked for it....

 

Would you use something like this live, or more studio?

Both.

 

Do you typically use samples live?

Absolutely. Other than good acoustic and electric pianos, I like to have a few personal things, depending on the type of music.

Recently, I've convinced someone to let me play a Baroque concert (flute and keyboard, scheduled for October) using the Fatar WMK176plus, driving the Kurz as the harpsichord! He heard the harpsichords from the Synclavier collection (heavily tweaked) and - well, you should have seen his face!

 

Curious what a fellow VAST head is thinking...

 

dB

 

You're welcome!

Now, if only someone could get me the "Sinclav FM" disk...