The "ugly" business side of music - The Doors (not British)

[Garrafon]

Surviving Doors about to settle lawsuit:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/Music/08/22/the.doors.dispute.ap/index.html

[daBowsa]

Does anyone have a link to the essay Jim Morrison wrote about the evils of selling out? I.e. allowing one of your songs to be used as the soundtrack to a car commercial.

 

I read it once and haven't been able to locate it online since.

[daBowsa]

I came across this just now in my searches, pretty cool:

 

"He rejected the whole demo. Ten seconds on each song ... and we were dismissed out of hand. Just like that. He took the demo off the turntable and handed it back to me with an obsequious smile and said, 'Nothing here I can use.' We were shocked.

We stood up, the three of us, and [lead singer] Jim [Morrison], with a wry and knowing smile on his lips, cuttingly and cooly shot back at him, 'That's okay, man. We don't want to be used, anyway.'"

[MANZAREK, R., 1998, p. 153]

[daBowsa]

Ok, found it - no wonder I had a problem, it was a Densmore interview, not a Morrison essay. Duh.

 

Anyway, here it is - its actually pretty relevant to the story garrafon posted.

 

http://www.idafan.com/Densmore-TheNation-July8-02.htm

[Garrafon]

Cool article...thanks for posting that.

 

I wonder if Jim would stick to his "morals" now? A million and a half!

[delirium]

so musicians can get ugly?

[ProfD]

That is definitely the uglier side of the music business.

 

Still, Manzarek and Krieger should have known better. As they are doing now, they certainly can tour, performing the same songs without using The Doors likeness to sell tickets.

 

Huge price to pay for arrogance. Maybe they should ask Paul McCartney to sing lead and Phil Collins to play drums.

 

Band name--The Settlement Riders.

 

That would also put an end to that other thread.

[Garrafon]

Maybe they should ask Paul McCartney to sing lead and Phil Collins to play drums.

 

Band name--The Settlement Riders.

 

That would also put an end to that other thread.

 

Great idea...merge English and American rockers and the band will simply self-combust over the inherent tension over which two band members are better. LOL

[ProfD]

Maybe they should ask Paul McCartney to sing lead and Phil Collins to play drums.

 

Band name--The Settlement Riders.

 

That would also put an end to that other thread.

 

Great idea...merge English and American rockers and the band will simply self-combust over the inherent tension over which two band members are better. LOL

 

 

Only if McCartney and Collins show up at the rehearsal studio instead of some sussudio.

[MikeT156]

I can certainly see why you wouldn't want any surviving members of the Doors billing themselves as the 21st Century Doors or using the Doors name, but at this point in time, I don't see why Densmore wouldn't agree to taking the 15m for the commerical use of their kinda "dated" material. No harm to Jim Morrison's "memory", and I'm sure they could all use the money, especially the families.

 

My 2 cents, which is about the sum total of my own "estate".

 

Mike T.

[JeffLearman]

Yeah -- "White Christmas" is dated too. That doesn't make it any less of a great song, a classic, one that people hold dear.

 

The date is beside the point.

 

I have no argument with artists who make money from commercial music, of either kind (A: the kind fans pay for, B: the kind manufacturers pay to use in advertisements). I have no argument with people who make a moral distinction between these two, though I think they're splitting hairs.

 

Bottom line is, John has the right to say "no", and he does.

 

[MikeT156]

Yeah, I agree. And I'm not saying its not still great music, if you like the Doors. I do find it very interesting that people, including some young people, go for classic rock to this day. I know when I was young, we ignored our parents music big time. Glen Miller. Who? I guess we weren't as nostalgic in those days.

 

Cheers,

 

Mike T.

[Joe Muscara]

I really disagreed with the court decision, until the article mentioned the signed agreement. That makes it a totally different ball game. At the same time, I wonder if Densmore said, "don't call it The Doors or anything like that" at the time or dropped that bomb later.

[Cloud_9]

I seriously think that Densmore should have taken the gig from the get go. He would have "honored" Morrison a lot more than just sitting on the sidelines. Classic jams, good production, and respectful interpretation of The Door's songs would be welcome anywhere, and selling out to commercials and the rest wouldnt even be necesary with all that cash comin in. Everybody could have been happy here, especially the families of the deceased. I just think that this endeavor would have started with the 3 of them, it would have have been much more succesful and lucrative. What kind of gets to me is that Densmore, aside from having his personal views as to why he refused to play, would gladly take the money from the lawsuit when he did nothing to earn it. Manzarek and Krieger should have known better of course, but having to even pay the family of Jim's deceased wife? And 2 million in legal fees? Ouch. Sounds like stretching it a bit. The Settlement Riders seems like the way to go.....

[Griffinator]

I can certainly see why you wouldn't want any surviving members of the Doors billing themselves as the 21st Century Doors or using the Doors name, but at this point in time, I don't see why Densmore wouldn't agree to taking the 15m for the commerical use of their kinda "dated" material. No harm to Jim Morrison's "memory", and I'm sure they could all use the money, especially the families.

 

Come on, man. Even today you have the teenage cliques that worship Morrison and buy Doors records and memorabilia. They weren't hurting for money.

 

What Manzarek and Krieger did was cheap (calling the band the "21st century Doors"), and I'm glad Densmore stepped up.

[Dave Pierce]

I feel sorry for all three of these guys. Being in a young, successful four-piece band that had a boatload of personal drama has got to be an emotional rollercoaster. Lots of bands went through that when they were young, then sorted it out between each other as they got older.

 

But Jim is gone. There's no sorting things out with him, ever.

 

That's gotta be tough. Yeah, I'm sure the money and success are nice. But I don't really envy them. (Well, OK, not much then).

 

--Dave

 

[richwhite9]

Yeah, I agree. And I'm not saying its not still great music, if you like the Doors. I do find it very interesting that people, including some young people, go for classic rock to this day.

 

Anyone that heard the post-Morrison Doors albums would understand A) why they aren't available on CD in the US or on Doors compilations and B) why Densmore's and Morrison's family would prevent Kreiger or Manzarek from using the Doors name again without permission.

 

Manzarek had a much much better Doors sound-alike band in the 70s called Nite City. The singer even looked the part. Their debut was OK. Using the Doors name they might have been able to go over the top. First album didn't sell, the material for the second album was bad, the lead singer left before the second album and after the horrific second album the band split with bassist Harrison moving on to Blondie in 1977.

 

[C.J. Lewis]

selling out?

 

I've always wondered...isn't that the point of doing music...to sell it?

 

Just curious...

[Dave Horne]

Cool article...thanks for posting that.

 

I wonder if Jim would stick to his "morals" now? A million and a half!

 

Imagine the drugs he could buy.

[MikeT156]

Quote by Griffinator:

 

"Come on, man. Even today you have the teenage cliques that worship Morrison and buy Doors records and memorabilia. They weren't hurting for money".

 

But Scott, turn down $15,000,000? err...as in MILLION? Yeah, using the Doors name without permissions IS cheesy, but turning down all that cash so long after the fact is stupid.

 

Mike T.

[mate stubb]

I disagree. Many tunes have a special place in each generation's heart, and it can be downright disheartening and enraging to hear them turned into TV fodder to sell old geezer stuff.

 

(Case in point - I now hear "Sunshine of your Love" a crapload of times each day selling incontinence products with a bunch of grey haired geezers doing active lifestyle stuff. That song was important to me. I'm pissed.)

 

Kudos to John for understanding the difference between selling the music, and selling out the music, and I'm glad he can afford to maintain his scruples.

 

Ray, God bless him, would sell Doors underwear if he could get the approval of everybody.

[Gismo Recording]

"You can't call yourselves The Doors because you can't have The Doors without Jim Morrison," Densmore's attorney S. Jerome Mandel said.

I suppose Densmore had a change of heart sometime after recording Other Voices and Full Circle

[MikeT156]

Quote by mate_stubb:

 

"I disagree. Many tunes have a special place in each generation's heart, and it can be downright disheartening and enraging to hear them turned into TV fodder to sell old geezer stuff.

 

(Case in point - I now hear "Sunshine of your Love" a crapload of times each day selling incontinence products with a bunch of grey haired geezers doing active lifestyle stuff. That song was important to me. I'm pissed.)

 

Kudos to John for understanding the difference between selling the music, and selling out the music, and I'm glad he can afford to maintain his scruples.

 

Ray, God bless him, would sell Doors underwear if he could get the approval of everybody."

 

Lets face it, all of us from that period of time ARE old gezzers! Younger people are clueless as too how life was within the counter culture and the mood of the country in the late sixties and early seventies. Now, I'm not saying that everything was hunky-dory back in those days, it wasn't. The music moved a lot of us and was symbolic to the times (at least some of it was). Most young people just don't get what the music was about, how can they, they weren't alive back then. So yeah Matt, a lot of the music has special meaning to some of us, but I don't see any harm in getting paid real money for your work in advertising. It beats the hell out of "playing for the art" and not being able to make rent.

 

Mike T.

[Griffinator]

It beats the hell out of "playing for the art" and not being able to make rent.

 

I'm just not seeing where Manzarek of Krieger, considering the long and fruitful careers they had post-Doors, are in any danger of that, unless they've been hanging out with Keith Richards, shooting and/or snorting up all their royalty money...

[Griffinator]

It beats the hell out of "playing for the art" and not being able to make rent.

 

I'm just not seeing where Manzarek or Krieger, considering the long and fruitful careers they had post-Doors, are in any danger of that, unless they've been hanging out with Keith Richards, shooting and/or snorting up all their royalty money...

[Mike Davis]

It beats the hell out of "playing for the art" and not being able to make rent.

 

I'm just not seeing where Manzarek or Krieger, considering the long and fruitful careers they had post-Doors, are in any danger of that, unless they've been hanging out with Keith Richards, shooting and/or snorting up all their royalty money...

 

Apparently most people spend more when they make more:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginal_propensity_to_consume

 

Not any of us, of course

[BP3]

I hung with Ken Scott at NAMM a few years back and he was telling me about the "Doors" project he was producing and that it got shelved over silly legal crap. I wonder if it will ever see the light of day.

[Garrafon]

"You can't call yourselves The Doors because you can't have The Doors without Jim Morrison," Densmore's attorney S. Jerome Mandel said.

I suppose Densmore had a change of heart sometime after recording Other Voices and Full Circle

 

I always liked "Wandering Musician."

[moj]

But Scott, turn down $15,000,000? err...as in MILLION? Yeah, using the Doors name without permissions IS cheesy, but turning down all that cash so long after the fact is stupid.

 

Mike T.

 

A few years ago ABBA was offered some really serious money to come out of retirement for a world tour. How much? $1,000,000,000. And, they turned it down!

[JohnH]

I hung with Ken Scott at NAMM a few years back and he was telling me about the "Doors" project he was producing and that it got shelved over silly legal crap. I wonder if it will ever see the light of day.

 

"silly legal crap"....hmm no it was more that the songs were legal, silly and crap. I've heard nothing but bad reports about American Express and other songs that were for that new Doors/Riders on the Storm project. I did like Cops Talk, but even it was rubbish...nothing more than Riders on the Storm (the song) rewritten. The new album project is dead at this time.

 

John