MIDI and nord electro questions

[scottasin]

Im considering getting a NE61, but I've got a few questions.

 

1. What is the action like? Is it heavy enough to play rhodes parts, or is it closer to an unweighted feel?

 

2. If the keyweight isn't enough to play on, is there a 76 or 88 key weighted controller that I could get for 200-300 dollars, just bare bones, no features neccesary other than keys and a MIDI jack.

 

3. If I did MIDI the NE to a weighted board, could I use the keyboard from the nord electro to control a rackmount synth or softsynth while simultaneously using the sounds from the NE, but controlled from a MIDI controller?

[DanS]

3. A bit wonky, but provided the NE has a Local Control On that can be turned Off, you should be able to do it. Worst case you can search for some kind of midi splitter box that would help.

[eric]

The action is incredible for playing organ. It is very robust and takes some abuse, similar to a real B3. It is not the best action for piano playing, but is passable after some acclimation. I find that it is closer to feeling like a Wurly than like a Rhodes. I can dig it for playing anything and I do recommend this keyboard.

 

The Rhodes sounds are fantastic, especially in stereo with tremolo or pan FX. Very convincing. I use my Electro mainly as an organ on gigs, but I do employ the EP/clav sounds from time to time at gigs, mainly triggered by my 88-note S90. For rehearsal and small gigs, it's a no brainer -- just bring the Electro and that's all I need.

 

Did I mention it weighs 20 lbs???

 

Regards,

Eric

[Sven Golly]

3. A bit wonky, but provided the NE has a Local Control On that can be turned Off, you should be able to do it. Worst case you can search for some kind of midi splitter box that would help.

 

Problem with this is, with LOCAL OFF, the front panel (i.e. drawbuttons, patch select buttons, and all other realtime controls) will not change anything on the Electro. Probably not an issue for just a straight piano or Wurli/Rhodes part, but if he wants to change the Wah depth while playing, he won't be able to grab a knob on the Electro to do it.

 

[ITGITC]

I have never talked to anyone who purchased an Electro for the feel.

 

On the other hand (the one that is dominant whenever you clap), what would you do if you were Clavia?

 

They're trying to make everybody happy.

 

The Electro has killer organ emulation - so you need waterfall, unweighted keys, right?

 

But it also has very fine fine Rhodes, Wurlitzer 200A, and Clavinet voices. So you probably want a heavier action for those.

 

Ooooof.

 

I like the action on my PC2X. It's not perfect, but it doesn't get in my way when I play piano voices.

 

I played a K2000 for a long time. It was tough playing piano solos on its unweighted keys. Nevertheless, it's a versatile instrument. Most 61-key synths are going to come with unweighted keys. But at that time I was moving from a DX7, so I bought it anyway.

 

I would purchase an Electro today - even though it would take a bit for me to get used to the action.

 

As ProfD said to me the other day, it's like a football that we've been tossing for a long, long time.

 

We've discussed the Electro on this forum often. I think, through all the discussions and all the users putting in their two cents, this board stands the test of time.

 

Is it a classic?

 

I don't know. But enough people really love it that I don't think you would be taking too much of a risk by purchasing one.

 

 

...even though it only comes in RED.

 

[Joe Muscara]

I bought the Electro for the feel, the organ feel.

 

I use the Radio Shack DP-4073 (Casio CDP100) as a weighted controller, it was around $300, and it works great. Unfortunately, I think they normally run a little higher than what some of us paid for when RS was closing them out.

[Tonysounds]

Everyone has addressed the feel issues (I like it for what it is, but I would not play PIANO on it).

 

As for Midi.... The Electro receives on its Midi transmit channel; you can't fix that. So if you're using an external board to trigger the Electro parts, you cant interface the 3 units in anyway, so no midi merges, etc. As long as you dont intend to do that, in theory, it should work.

[Dana.]

2. If the keyweight isn't enough to play on, is there a 76 or 88 key weighted controller that I could get for 200-300 dollars, just bare bones, no features neccesary other than keys and a MIDI jack.

 

I'm selling my Studiologic SL-990XP which would fit your bill. PM me if you're interested.

[DanS]

3. A bit wonky, but provided the NE has a Local Control On that can be turned Off, you should be able to do it. Worst case you can search for some kind of midi splitter box that would help.

 

Problem with this is, with LOCAL OFF, the front panel (i.e. drawbuttons, patch select buttons, and all other realtime controls) will not change anything on the Electro. Probably not an issue for just a straight piano or Wurli/Rhodes part, but if he wants to change the Wah depth while playing, he won't be able to grab a knob on the Electro to do it.

 

Are you sure about that? Local control just disconnects the keyboard from the synth engine, at least on my boards, but I don't have an Electro....

If this is the case, then it's a big negative for what Opie wants to do.

[Sven Golly]

Are you sure about that? Local control just disconnects the keyboard from the synth engine, at least on my boards, but I don't have an Electro....

If this is the case, then it's a big negative for what Opie wants to do.

 

Got that directly from the manual...

 

LOCAL

 

Press the SHIFT + PROGRAM 3 (LOCAL) buttons to enter the MIDI Local on/off function. Here you set whether the Nord Electro 2 keyboard and front panel controls should control internal Programs or only send MIDI. Local On is the normal play mode. In Local Off mode, the front panel and keyboard actions are transmitted via MIDI only and does not control the internal sound(s) at all. (The MIDI In works as usual, though.)

 

Local Off should be used when you use a sequencer to record and play back from Nord Electro 2. When using a sequencer, you connect the MIDI Out of Nord Electro 2 to the sequencers MIDI In. Then, from the sequencers MIDI Out back to the Nord Electro 2s MIDI In. Since the sequencer echoes back incoming MIDI data, Nord Electro 2 will respond normally to your playing and knob tweaking via the MIDI loop. If you use Local On in the sequencer setup described above, you will get double-notes when you play: from the keyboard internally and via the MIDI loop. This is not what you want. Therefore, always use Local Off together with sequencers.

 

Select Local On or Local Off with the UP/DOWN NAVIGATOR buttons. Press any button (except for the SHIFT, STORE or UP/DOWN buttons) to exit. Note that Local Off is not saved, so you will have to reconfigure after power off.

 

Pretty much exactly as you'd expect it (MIDI LOCAL OFF) to work, to be honest.

 

[ITGITC]

Hmmmmmmmm, a note from one French-Canadian Muso to another French-Canadian Muso.

 

I guess we're all lucky that the manual was already written in English and they didn't just talk amongst themselves in French-Canadian CODE.

 

Gotta watch those guys, don't cha know.

 

 

 

[Jeff_D_in_MD]

Je pense que nous devions tous parler en français pour faire chier monsieur ITGITC!

 

 

[ITGITC]

Je pense que nous devions tous parler en français pour faire chier monsieur ITGITC!

 

 

I think that we all must speak in French to make shit?

 

I'm sure that's not what you meant to say.

 

Does your MOMMA know you've got such a dirty mouth, Monsieur Jeff?

[DanS]

Hmmmmmmmm, a note from one French-Canadian Muso to another French-Canadian Muso.

 

I guess we're all lucky that the manual was already written in English and they didn't just talk amongst themselves in French-Canadian CODE.

 

Gotta watch those guys, don't cha know.

 

 

 

Actually Sven is from Ontario, and I'm from Quebec. So there more 'n' likely won't be any French Canadian code between us.

It's my pleasure to prevent you from portraying yourself as a complete geographical ignoramoose, Tom.

[Jeff_D_in_MD]

"Faire chier" means to bother, annoy, hassle, give grief to.

It is fairly mild, implying tedium rather than actual suffering.

In France, at least, it is such a common expression that my relatives would probably mock me if I refused to use it!

 

[DanS]

Are you sure about that? Local control just disconnects the keyboard from the synth engine, at least on my boards, but I don't have an Electro....

If this is the case, then it's a big negative for what Opie wants to do.

 

Got that directly from the manual...

 

LOCAL

 

Press the SHIFT + PROGRAM 3 (LOCAL) buttons to enter the MIDI Local on/off function. Here you set whether the Nord Electro 2 keyboard and front panel controls should control internal Programs or only send MIDI. Local On is the normal play mode. In Local Off mode, the front panel and keyboard actions are transmitted via MIDI only and does not control the internal sound(s) at all. (The MIDI In works as usual, though.)

 

Local Off should be used when you use a sequencer to record and play back from Nord Electro 2. When using a sequencer, you connect the MIDI Out of Nord Electro 2 to the sequencers MIDI In. Then, from the sequencers MIDI Out back to the Nord Electro 2s MIDI In. Since the sequencer echoes back incoming MIDI data, Nord Electro 2 will respond normally to your playing and knob tweaking via the MIDI loop. If you use Local On in the sequencer setup described above, you will get double-notes when you play: from the keyboard internally and via the MIDI loop. This is not what you want. Therefore, always use Local Off together with sequencers.

 

Select Local On or Local Off with the UP/DOWN NAVIGATOR buttons. Press any button (except for the SHIFT, STORE or UP/DOWN buttons) to exit. Note that Local Off is not saved, so you will have to reconfigure after power off.

 

Pretty much exactly as you'd expect it (MIDI LOCAL OFF) to work, to be honest.

 

Rackmount Electros are by nature, in Local Off mode from the get go, and I'm pretty sure the front panel buttons/knobs remain functional, if not then I don't see a use for them in the studio, unless you have a control surface with a template. When I put my PEK in Local Off mode, I can still tweak the sounds with the knobbies.

[DanS]

"Faire chier" means to bother, annoy, hassle, give grief to.

It is fairly mild, implying tedium rather than actual suffering.

In France, at least, it is such a common expression that my relatives would probably mock me if I refused to use it!

 

Although if you can get a guy like Tom to soil himself from a lyrical phrase such as this one, all the better, or temps mieux.

[ITGITC]

"Faire chier" means to bother, annoy, hassle, give grief to.

It is fairly mild, implying tedium rather than actual suffering.

In France, at least, it is such a common expression that my relatives would probably mock me if I refused to use it!

 

Although if you can get a guy like Tom to soil himself from a lyrical phrase such as this one, all the better, or temps mieux.

 

 

I took that text STRAIGHT from the translation site:

 

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_txt

 

I'll tell you what, Dan.

 

I'll make it a point to get up to QUEBEC for a visit.

 

I'll teach you SOUTHERN CHARM and the nuances of recognizing good BBQ and sweet iced tea if you'll help me out with my French translation skills.

 

Whatdayasay?

 

Tom

 

 

[Jeff_D_in_MD]

I took that text STRAIGHT from the translation site

The translation site is very literal--"faire chier" could be translated as "make sh1t." In fact, the best analogy is with the english phrase "give sh1t"--you are not actually handing someone a turd when you give them sh1t.

[scottasin]

so its looking like the third question would not be viable then? Or is it that I could, but the drawbuttons etc. would also not be controlling the electro?

[Sven Golly]

Rackmount Electros are by nature, in Local Off mode from the get go

 

I disagree. The rack is LOCAL ON by nature; the absence of a keyboard interface doesn't mean that it's any different than the keyboard.

 

When I put my PEK in Local Off mode, I can still tweak the sounds with the knobbies.

 

The PEK is different than the Electro. I'm merely quoting what's in the manual... please don't shoot the messenger.

 

[Sven Golly]

so its looking like the third question would not be viable then? Or is it that I could, but the drawbuttons etc. would also not be controlling the electro?

 

You could do this, but it would be a definite kludge involving 2 pieces of external hardware and some programming.

 

1) [Weighted Controller] MIDI OUT to [merge box] MIDI IN 1

2) [Electro] MIDI OUT to [unspecified synth] MIDI IN

3) [unspecified synth] MIDI THRU to [external box, see below] MIDI IN

3) [external box] MIDI OUT to [merge box] MIDI IN 2

4) [merge box] MIDI OUT to Electro MIDI IN.

 

Basically, the signal from both the Controller and the Electro would reach the Electro; the [external box] in question would have to be programmed to remove all note information from the data stream, so that none of it came back to the Electro.

 

Of course, this only works for your single setup, with the Electro controlling your [unspecified synth] and the controller controlling the Electro. If you wanted to go back to everything normally, you'd be repatching between songs.

 

Back in the day, we had these things called MIDI PATCH BAYS (i.e. JL Cooper MSB+, etc.) that could do all these things and store the routing information as setups, which could be changed on the fly. Life was good, the beer was tasty and and the women were fresh.

 

P.S.: The above is absolutely meant to impress upon you the hoops you'll have to jump through to accomplish what you want...

[DanS]

Rackmount Electros are by nature, in Local Off mode from the get go

 

I disagree. The rack is LOCAL ON by nature; the absence of a keyboard interface doesn't mean that it's any different than the keyboard.

 

Glass is half full.

 

When I put my PEK in Local Off mode, I can still tweak the sounds with the knobbies.

 

The PEK is different than the Electro. I'm merely quoting what's in the manual... please don't shoot the messenger.

 

I think something got lost in the Swedish translation. It makes no sense for the rest of a keyboard to go dead just because you disconnect the keyboard from it. Anyway Sven, no shooting from this end, just discussing.

[DanS]

 

I'll tell you what, Dan.

 

I'll make it a point to get up to QUEBEC for a visit.

 

I'll teach you SOUTHERN CHARM and the nuances of recognizing good BBQ and sweet iced tea if you'll help me out with my French translation skills.

 

Whatdayasay?

 

Tom

 

 

Deal.

[Sven Golly]

Rackmount Electros are by nature, in Local Off mode from the get go

 

I disagree. The rack is LOCAL ON by nature; the absence of a keyboard interface doesn't mean that it's any different than the keyboard.

 

Glass is half full.

 

Nope, sorry. The implementation doesn't alter simply by virtue of it being a rack. This isn't about optimism/pessamism.

 

I think something got lost in the Swedish translation. It makes no sense for the rest of a keyboard to go dead just because you disconnect the keyboard from it.

 

Actually, the rest of the keyboard doesn't go dead, it merely disconnects the controllers from the internal sound generator; the information is still being sent out the MIDI output... which is what MIDI LOCAL ON/OFF is intended to accomplish.

 

I'd be interested to confirm that this is actually what is happening (don't have an Electro, so can't test this). If MIDI LOCAL is set to OFF, do the drawbuttons still work? Any Electro users out there have any free minutes to test this simple setting out and report?

 

Note that I believe that it wouldn't disable things like Patch Select, or the general volume control, but it SHOULD disconnect the rest of the controllers, only sending those actions out the MIDI stream.

 

Anyway Sven, no shooting from this end, just discussing.

 

Yeah, I know... just poking fun.

 

[ITGITC]

Anyway Sven, no shooting from this end, just discussing.

 

Yeah, I know... just poking fun.

 

 

Allow me to translate:

 

Ouais, je sais pousser juste l'amusement, vous bâtard le savez tout.

 

 

 

 

 

[DanS]

 

I'd be interested to confirm that this is actually what is happening (don't have an Electro, so can't test this). If MIDI LOCAL is set to OFF, do the drawbuttons still work? Any Electro users out there have any free minutes to test this simple setting out and report?

 

Yes please, I'm curious as well.

[DanS]

Anyway Sven, no shooting from this end, just discussing.

 

Yeah, I know... just poking fun.

 

 

Allow me to translate:

 

Ouais, je sais pousser juste l'amusement, vous bâtard le savez tout.

 

 

 

 

 

Damned Frenchmen!

[scottasin]

 

I'd be interested to confirm that this is actually what is happening (don't have an Electro, so can't test this). If MIDI LOCAL is set to OFF, do the drawbuttons still work? Any Electro users out there have any free minutes to test this simple setting out and report?

 

Yes please, I'm curious as well.

 

yeah, really, someone give it a try.

[Changearound]

I've just tried it out and discovered something a bit strange. When Local is set to Off, all the buttons continue to work but the knobs do not.

 

This means that drawbuttons, vibrato, percussion and leslie speed are all controllable. You can change patches and piano sounds. You can call up drawbar registrations with Shift+Drawbutton. You can turn Effects, Modulations, Overdrive, Presence and EQ on or off but you can't alter their value/amount/rate/frequency. Output Level on the right hand side doesn't work, Master Level on the left does. For the pedal inputs, Rotor Speed continues to work, Sustain and Control do not. You can of course use your MIDI controller to send sustain and swell messages to the Electro.

 

I'm kinda surprised by the results as I was expecting either everything to work or nothing. A mixed bag doesn't really make sense. Mind you, when it comes to Nord and MIDI control, anything goes.