anyother theory question. how do you tell what key a song.

[nath1142]

first whats the difference between the the key of the song and scale's it's based off of.

second i would like to know how u can tell what key and scale's the song is based off of. yes i know how to read music and i know the flats and sharps that make a song in the key of c or whatever.

[odeacon]

Those are two interesting questions!

 

Shooting from the hip, my view is that the key is the note to which the tune naturally returns or resolves, and whether it's major or minor depends on whether the third is major or minor.

 

The scale would depend on the notes actually used - like a tune in C major with a raised fourth would, in my mind, be based on the lydian mode, or scale.

 

The way I began to tell what key a tune is in was to find the note it seemed to return to on the guitar (or piano, etc.). After years of this, now I can usually tell within a half-step what key a tune is in (i.e.: when Nirvana's 'Smells Like Teen Spirit' came out, I thought it was in F#, rather than F, which I didn't realize until I actually sat down with the recording and a guitar; only after figuring that out did I begin to hear the fourth-fret harmonics between the Ab and Db chords on the recording).

 

Once you have an idea of what key the tune is in, you can try to hear or just experiment with what scales or notes go with it. This also will develop with time.

 

Main thing is, play play play, but keep it fun!

[CajunBlues]

Wow great question. Think of the key signature as the home of your song. You almost always start there and end there. And in the song you may stray away from home occasionally. Most jazz songs will behave this way. Most blues songs will stay home almost the entire song. The way you can tell that you are leaving your home is by looking at the chord patterns. Knowing how to identify keys/chords is kind of hard to explain in a small post like this.

Another thing to note, is that a lot of blues songs will solo in (for example) the G blues scale. and the chords will be G7-C7-D7 (1-4-5) but the key will be Bflat. Keep in mind the G blues scale shares a lot of notes with the Bflat major scale. Just like the A blues scale shares a lot of notes with the C major scale etc... So, if you see that, you will know why.

 

Another way to identify a key change in the song is if you all of a sudden see a lot of added flats or sharps. Here the song writer is changing the key and including the appropriate chords to do so.

[Billster]

The key of a song is mostly determined by the chord progression. Straight ahead songs will use diatonic chords build from the related scale, but there are other possibilities for substituting chord types.

 

So, if you are in C major, your chord progressions will tend to resolve to a C major. A minor contains the same notes as C major, but the development of the chord progression will tend to resolve to an A minor chord. A lot of songs function by "pretending" to be in A minor, until the final melodic phrase comes around and resolves to the relative major, C.

 

 

... blues songs will solo in (for example) the G blues scale. and the chords will be G7-C7-D7 (1-4-5) but the key will be Bflat. Keep in mind the G blues scale shares a lot of notes with the Bflat major scale.

 

No. In that example the song is really in G. Your "G blues" scale is most closely related to a G minor scale, the ambiguity of using a flatted third (Bb) in the scale over the natural third (B natural) in the G7 chord makes it sound like blues.

[Terrell]

The "key" to a song is finding that one special note that speaks a million words. The best way to find that note is to hit all 12 in every octave as fast as possible until you find that special note... Most times that one note is a 4-flat5-5 bend, but don't let that stop you from hitting them all just in case...

 

 

 

 

[Billster]

[BrianWren]

Just as there are inversions of chords, there are inversions of the chord progressions of songs.

 

Take for instance Whats Your Name, by Lynyrd Skynyrd. (Im not sure what key this song is in, but lets presume its A.) The song starts with D, moves to E, then gets to A. But when it does get to A, there is a sense of resolving. Theres a tension until you get there.

 

Or the main theme of Nasty Dogs And Funky Kings (ZZ Top). Starting on the 6th string (string/fret) the theme is (with individual notes) 6/0 6/3 5/0 5/3 pull off to 5/0. It hits the A on the way by, but it starts on E. When you get to that pull-off to A, there is a sense of completeness, of resolution, of having arrived.

 

So one of the features of determining the key is that there is often a sense of resolution on that chord (or, in some cases, that note).

 

Also, you can have a chord inversion that doesnt include even one note that is the root. Think of, at the nut, playing (string/fret) 3/1, 2/0, 1/3. It is an inversion of Emaj, but there is no E in the set of notes. And you could extend that by adding 4/0 & 5/2.

 

Just so, a song could avoid the root chord of the key for the whole song. (That would make for a very tension-filled composition!)

 

So I would add that finding the key often involves finding that sense of resolving.

 

But my understanding is that the key is the combination of that root/resolution note plus the scale (or the scale follows the key, I think more accurately). What I mean is that I think the definition of key includes the mode. So A is not a key, but is only one component of it. The key would be Amaj, Amin or Ador. Usually you don't need to spell out the whole key to other musicians to play a tune together. Just saying A, then starting with a minor chord will get the shebang underway.

 

Finally (and I just learned this) there is the issue of the right chords to fit the key.

Think of this: play a major triad of individual notes in the key of Amaj at the 5th position. So that would be 6/5 5/4 5/7. That will be a major chord.

 

Then play the next note up form each of those notes in the major scale. (You played the I II V, now play the II IV VI.)

 

Keep working up the sacle one note at a time, and you will find (for instance, and if I remember this right) that the triad beginning on the VI will be minor.

 

So if you were playing in the key of Emaj, and you moved up a whole step from B (the V of the key), you must play a minor chord (and a lovely sound it is, too!). Thats where the rules about marching through the chords come from that say this one is a minor, that one is a major, and there is even a suspended & an augmented in there.

 

OK. Enough rambling...

[nath1142]

k thanks guys i've always wondered how to figure this out ever since i picked up the clarinet, then after having a good teacher explain some theory and how to determine key with sharp/flats on sheet music i wondered again how you would go about finding this with just listening to the song. thank you very much have more then one person explaing stuff always help's me figure out my question alot easyer.

[Eric Iverson]

Pop songs often start with the tonic chord and usually end with it... although the song may have modulated en route! (In some styles, several times....)

[Eric Iverson]

Pop songs often start with the tonic chord and usually end with it... although the song may have modulated en route! (In some styles, several times....)