James Hetfield's Fence

[Billster]

"Look at the barbed wire. This a serious fence,"

 

"It is private property," said Warner, who does construction work for the rocker. "There was some damage done by certain people. If people were cool, this would not be an issue."

[miroslav]

Fame has its price....

[Bejeeber]

I wonder if this little McFencey thing might end up backfiring, privacy wise - drawing wide attention to his property and exactly where it is.

[fantasticsound]

It's always fun when someone asserts their private property rights where either they or previous owners have allowed public use of the property. It only gets more ridiculous when the property owner is a celebrity.

 

I am all for open use for trail enthusiasts but in the end it's private property and Hetfield can do anything he pleases within government rules and regs.

[fantasticsound]

I wonder if this little McFencey thing might end up backfiring, privacy wise - drawing wide attention to his property and exactly where it is.

 

Doesn't much matter, Matt. It's a solid metal fence with barbed wire... If someone is hardcore enough to breach it they probably would've found him anyway.

[Billster]

I'm sure there's going to be a trail access deal made, but in the meantime private property is still private.

[Billster]

I wonder if this little McFencey thing might end up backfiring, privacy wise - drawing wide attention to his property and exactly where it is.

 

Doesn't much matter, Matt. It's a solid metal fence with barbed wire... If someone is hardcore enough to breach it they probably would've found him anyway.

 

Yeah, if some fanatic wants to stalk a celebrity, they don't need the local newspaper to print an address.

 

BTW, plug the address into your Google maps and take a look. That's a pretty wide open area. The road in question is probably the most convenient way for people to access the parklands, but I'm sure there's other ways around the area.

 

But they're still going to make a deal.

[miroslav]

Mmmm...but aren't there laws that say if public/common access has been granted for a certain number of years, then it can't be taken away (or something like that)?

 

In other words...if you, as a property owner allow a public road through your property...after a certin time period, it's permanent.

 

(It may be a state/county thing)

[Billster]

Well, a public road is a public road. Often times in developing a tract of land, not all planned roads are built, but the right-of-way remains - it just happens to be someone's yard. That's different from a fully bounded property that becomes a common shortcut. I'm not aware of "common law roads" being created that way, but I could be wrong.

[fantasticsound]

Miro, you're confusing concepts. If someone officially grants permission for public right of way a contract should be drawn up to define the use, rights and responsibilities of all parties. Even without such a contract so long as the property owner maintains the property they continue to be the sole arbiter (within city, county, state and federal laws) of its use. Of course, private property rights have been trampled the past 10 - 15 years so the city/county might very well accomplish their goals through eminent domain whether the use is not truly necessary or not and even if the land will be taken by the gov't to be given to a private entity for development!

 

The statutes you allude to vary from state to state and municipality to municipality but the general principle is if you maintain a piece of land for a set amount of time and a permanent structure is built on that parcel of land then you can claim rights to that land. In other words, if you build a fence around your property that actually encloses part of your neighbor's yard within your living area, maintain the grass, etc. for 7 years then the likelyhood is your neighbor will not be able to force you to remove the fence and "return" the land when they sell their home.

 

Allowing the public to walk or ride across your land does not constitute giving up your rights to that parcel of land.

[miroslav]

Yeah...but I thought there is a "fire road" running through that property.

 

Is that a real "fire road"...or just the name of a road...?

 

I think if it is a real "fire road" intended for access to the ridges...and it's been in use all these years...that would make it a public road.

 

[Billster]

I don't know the particulars of the tract, but if it's a designated fire road, it would probably have to be a public right of way. Since no one seems to claim the fence is illegal, the road probably isn't a designated public way. You couldn't build a giant fence across a paved road :lol:

[MILLO]

I am all for open use for trail enthusiasts but in the end it's private property and Hetfield can do anything he pleases within government rules and regs.

+1

[Terrell]

In Texas we put up a posted sign and then just start shooting...

[duff beer]

Miro[/bIn other words, if you build a fence around your property that actually encloses part of your neighbor's yard within your living area, maintain the grass, etc. for 7 years then the likelyhood is your neighbor will not be able to force you to remove the fence and "return" the land when they sell their home.

 

That can't be true, but if it is then it is the stupidest law around...you can encroach on your neighbor and then steal his land after X years if he was unaware that your fence was in the wrong spot?

 

As far as I know, here in Canada a property line is just that...if your fence is on my land then you have to move it off my property at YOUR expense, no matter how long it was there. Being wrong for a lot of years does not make you right.

[Griffinator]

If he were really metal, it would have been a high-voltage electric fence.

 

http://www.psychobabyonline.com/site/scpics/tmb/1507/head_banger_ringer.jpg

[Billster]

Actually, it's pronounced "FENNNNNNNNNCCCCC-AAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!"

[Bluesape]

Yet another reason not to support that band .....what arrogance!!

[Bejeeber]

Actually, it's pronounced "FENNNNNNNNNCCCCC-AAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!"

 

OMG that one is a REALLY funny classic for anyone with a passing familiarity with Mr. Hetfield's vocal stylings!

[miroslav]

MiroIn other words, if you build a fence around your property that actually encloses part of your neighbor's yard within your living area, maintain the grass, etc. for 7 years then the likelyhood is your neighbor will not be able to force you to remove the fence and "return" the land when they sell their home.

 

That can't be true, but if it is then it is the stupidest law around...you can encroach on your neighbor and then steal his land after X years if he was unaware that your fence was in the wrong spot?

 

As far as I know, here in Canada a property line is just that...if your fence is on my land then you have to move it off my property at YOUR expense, no matter how long it was there. Being wrong for a lot of years does not make you right.

 

 

I think Neil is right about that...especially if your neighbors are 100% aware that your fence cuts across their property and they make no mention for you to move it...

...at some point, I don't think they can.

 

My deer fence in the back yard always cut a bit into my neighbor's wooded property...because the previous owner of my property put up the fence following the existing tree line...which happened to be a bit into the neighbor's property.

The previous neighbor said it was fine...and this new neighbor was also aware of it the day he moved in (about 7 years now)...and so it stays.

 

I've been maintaining that "piece" of land...even have some shrubs/flowers that have been there for a long time, and I doubt he can make me re-align the fence at this point....though I know he doesn't give a damn, its just wooded, unused landand no more than about 10 running for about 30.

 

[Billster]

Yet another reason not to support that band .....what arrogance!!

 

It's arrogant to protect private property?

[Billster]

MiroIn other words, if you build a fence around your property that actually encloses part of your neighbor's yard within your living area, maintain the grass, etc. for 7 years then the likelyhood is your neighbor will not be able to force you to remove the fence and "return" the land when they sell their home.

 

That can't be true, but if it is then it is the stupidest law around...you can encroach on your neighbor and then steal his land after X years if he was unaware that your fence was in the wrong spot?

 

As far as I know, here in Canada a property line is just that...if your fence is on my land then you have to move it off my property at YOUR expense, no matter how long it was there. Being wrong for a lot of years does not make you right.

 

 

I think Neil is right about that...especially if your neighbors are 100% aware that your fence cuts across their property and they make no mention for you to move it...

...at some point, I don't think they can.

 

My deer fence in the back yard always cut a bit into my neighbor's wooded property...because the previous owner of my property put up the fence following the existing tree line...which happened to be a bit into the neighbor's property.

The previous neighbor said it was fine...and this new neighbor was also aware of it the day he moved in (about 7 years now)...and so it stays.

 

I've been maintaining that "piece" of land...even have some shrubs/flowers that have been there for a long time, and I doubt he can make me re-align the fence at this point....though I know he doesn't give a damn, its just wooded, unused landand no more than about 10 running for about 30.

 

I'm glad everyone gets along, but that's the kind of thing that keeps real estate lawyers busy. Usually when a property is sold, the deed needs to match reality, and if the fence isn't right someone can make an issue of it.

[miroslav]

True...but if they choose NOT to make an issue of it at the time of purchase...and it sits that way for 10-20 years...

...how can they then turn around and make an issue of it later...

...especially if the "encroacher" has maintained that portion of land that is in question...?

 

[Billster]

True...but if they choose NOT to make an issue of it at the time of purchase...and it sits that way for 10-20 years...

...how can they then turn around and make an issue of it later...

...especially if the "encroacher" has maintained that portion of land that is in question...?

 

Like I said, that's what keeps the lawyers busy.

 

Mostly you see problems crop up with easements involving shared driveways and stuff like that, but property taxes are based in part of the size of the parcel. If the deed doesn't reflect the actual boundaries, there can problems.

[fantasticsound]

Yeah...but I thought there is a "fire road" running through that property.

 

Is that a real "fire road"...or just the name of a road...?

 

I think if it is a real "fire road" intended for access to the ridges...and it's been in use all these years...that would make it a public road.

 

It's not entirely clear from the verbiage in the linked article, but I believe the comments about the fire road do not say the fence blocks the fire road. It states walking/horsebackriding/etc. traffic is blocked from reaching the fire road directly. The person quoted said they have to use the actual public roads to reach the fire road. That would seem to indicate emergency access has nothing to do with this trail. A picture of the trail leading up to his fence might answer that question.

 

MiroIn other words, if you build a fence around your property that actually encloses part of your neighbor's yard within your living area, maintain the grass, etc. for 7 years then the likelyhood is your neighbor will not be able to force you to remove the fence and "return" the land when they sell their home.

 

That can't be true, but if it is then it is the stupidest law around...you can encroach on your neighbor and then steal his land after X years if he was unaware that your fence was in the wrong spot?

 

As far as I know, here in Canada a property line is just that...if your fence is on my land then you have to move it off my property at YOUR expense, no matter how long it was there. Being wrong for a lot of years does not make you right.

 

I don't know the law in Canada but don't be so sure about that if you don't know the law.

 

I did a quick Google search that produced the following document regarding the State of Florida's laws regarding land ownership and possession. It does not encompass all Florida land related laws but gives a clear description with real examples of two types of land disputes. Scroll approx. 1/3 of the way down and start at; What are the legal problems of adjoining landowners? The term used in the State of Florida is Boundary by Acquiescence. This defines a disputed boundary where a permanent structure has defined the physical boundary for more than the proscribed time statute. In Florida, as in my generalization of such laws in the U.S., the statute is 7 years.

 

Important stuff. If you've never had a land survey and there are questionable boundaries (or even no obvious boundary issues) it would behoove you to have your land surveyed.

[fantasticsound]

Duff Beer

 

It's worse in Canada than in the U.S.!

 

This is a blog recounting a court of appeals case in which the court re-established a hierarchy of survey evidence in a precedent case which gives significantly more weight to an existing fence line than the measurements as defined in the deeds to the adjoining land.

 

In the case cited two 100 acre plots became a 113 acre and an 87 acre plot, respectively based on an irregular fence installed years earlier.

 

Even scarier is the single reply. From what little is described of the law it would appear the land owner who replied is out 10 acres of land and the value of trees cut for timber by his neighbor. Ouch!

[duff beer]

Duff Beer

 

It's worse in Canada than in the U.S.!

 

This is a blog recounting a court of appeals case in which the court re-established a hierarchy of survey evidence in a precedent case which gives significantly more weight to an existing fence line than the measurements as defined in the deeds to the adjoining land.

 

In the case cited two 100 acre plots became a 113 acre and an 87 acre plot, respectively based on an irregular fence installed years earlier.

 

Even scarier is the single reply. From what little is described of the law it would appear the land owner who replied is out 10 acres of land and the value of trees cut for timber by his neighbor. Ouch!

 

 

I live in Manitoba and that case was in Ontario so I will have to investigate further. I do recall my friend having to move a fence he built 15 years ago when his neighbor sold his house, but I guess that is different than the new neighbor leaving the fence in place for 15 year and then complaining.

[fantasticsound]

Your friend may not have been aware the law would be on his side, he may not have wanted the expense of litigation or he might simply felt taking the land was the wrong thing to do. Ask him about it. I'm interested to see what his reasoning was for giving in. Ignorance of the law, cost or high ethical standards.

[Caevan O'Shite]

 

http://www.tuckborough.net/images/blackgate.jpg

[Bluesape]

Yet another reason not to support that band .....what arrogance!!

 

It's arrogant to protect private property?

 

 

My interpretation is that it was more malicious than protective. it has apparently been used as a right of way for decades.....