PLEK Setup

[Rhino Madness]

I've read here and there about players getting their guitar setup with a PLEK machine . This CNC device analyzes the fretboard and sculpts the frets very precisely for optimal playing conditions. Only a few luthiers are setup with a PLEK but those that use their services swear by them.

 

Anybody here have any experience with them?

 

It seems to me that the advantage of the PLEK over a good traditional setup would be lost after the frets get even minimal wear. I didn't get online pricing but I recall hearing about the PLEK setup being rather expensive compared to traditional methods.

 

Again, I'd be curious to hear from people having had more direct experience with that technology.

[Bejeeber]

Hey good topic, Rhino - I'm eager to more about this nutty plek action meself.

[Rhino Madness]

Thanks Bejeeber. It's one of those things that gets me more curious everytime I hear about it...

[The Geoff]

I think some of the guys in the Lowdown have used this - try a search there.

 

G.

[Trucks]

I would be really interested to see what kind of performance it could get out of my PRS SE. I have just set it up with 10's and raised the action to a nice level and it's become a joy to play... Now with the neck all PLEK'd up, hmmm it could be a real winner.

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

We were looking at this here originally a couple of years ago... Pil was still around as I recall. And it sure looks fun.

 

I've never played one, so on that score I have no comment. But at times I wonder just how tweeky we can be before we implode...

 

I mean, I am no Paderuski or Yo Yo Ma of the guitar... I'm a simple strummer and picker. I try to pick an instrument that sounds good and stays in tune, with strings and an amp that sounds good, but after that....

 

we're all looking for a magic bullet to make us sound better than the next guy. I think that it might be 'practice'.

 

Bill

[Trucks]

Well I dunno Bill. It's kind of like saying, why would you bother taking your guitar to the best luthier in your area. What I would like to see, is how an identical guitar differs in playability after a PLEK setup and a top luthier setup. It would be interesting to see what difference (if any) you could actually notice.

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Yeah, like I said, it looks like fun. I'm of two minds on this one ( i AM a Gemini...) but I think in the original discussion, the price was prohibitive. It may have gone down, but wasn't it like, $950 per guitar or something like that? My luthier charges far less.....

 

Bill

[Steevo]

I can share my experience with it. I've got an early '65 335 that I had setup on a Plek machine, Joe Glaser in Nashville did it. I believe he was the first person in the US to get one and has been closely involved with the continuing development of it.

 

This particular guitar had been mainly played in the first position so there was a little fret wear there, but above the 5th fret, almost none. There were several spots where I had some fret buzz and maybe just a little damping while bending.

 

I decided to take the leap. I've got to admit to being a little nervous seeing him strap the guitar into this big robot machine. He let me watch it work ... it was amazing. It does the milling of the frets with the strings on and tuned to pitch. It does a 'map' of the fretboard first and displays it graphically on the monitor. I could easily see why I was having the fret buzzes because he could exaggerate the scale of the map to show which frets were higher, lower etc. Then he displayed on the screen what he wanted the result to be. There was an optimum line drawn and all my frets would be able to be brought to that line ... to within 1/100 mm. He started the process and the robotic arm would move the string slighly to the side while it did the milling on the fret underneath. This continued until all frets were filed to the target setup. Then he polished the frets and the board by hand and installed a new set of strings. Cost was around $175 if I remember correctly.

 

This guitar plays like a dream. No dead spots or buzzes anywhere. I'm glad I had it done ... as a percentage of the value of the guitar it was not that expensive. So, it worked for me.

 

Check out This Link for a better description of someone's experience with Plek.

[Caevan O’Shite]

I'd kinda think that it'd be best to have fretwork and related details done by an experienced, top-notch luthier/repairer who can use a Plek!

 

There's a place in California (Fret Tek, recommended by a happy customer over on the Les Paul Forum) I just read up on that's charging $220.00.-

 

"Plek costs $220.00USD

 

Plek includes:

 

1. Full Neck Scan

 

2. Truss Rod Adjustment

 

3. Leveling

 

4. Crowning

 

5. Polishing

 

6. Saddle/Bridge Adjustment

 

7. Intonation Settings"

[Trucks]

Ok, I am not sure I would pay $220 for a machine to do it.. I would pay $220 for a pro to do it.

 

How much human interaction is invloved in using the PLEK?

[miroslav]

The PLEK very much reminds of the time when automated stone grinders popped up in the ski industry.

You just strapped up a ski in the jig...and sent it through the machine...and away it went.

Skis were flattened and edges filed in just a couple of passes.

Though I remember always having to touch up by hand afterwards...

 

I guess this will help those music stores that don't have a real experienced luthier to do it by hand...though I guess they will still need an experienced operator of the PLEK.

 

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

still and all, the prices are a lot more reasonable now than they were when we first examined this subject. I don't know what Mike would charge for a similar job hand done, but I'd guess that it would be over $100 anyway. What I think is interresting about the story though, is how the luthier then did hand finish work. (which I like...) I also have to wonder how that might compromse the job done by the machine, if we are talking 100mm increments.

 

Bill

[Dr. Ellwood]

I have no experience with the PLEK, but I have a lifetime of experience with CNC machining, robotic design and implementation and scanning. The initial setup by the operator is critical to a satisfactory result. Everything that the operator does before the start button is punched is critical. Like all robots and their associated control software there are safe guard systems in place to give nominal results, but it is really the operator that insures maximum results are achieved.

[Caevan O’Shite]

I'm with Lee on this one; it's still all down to an experienced, knowledgeable Pro doing the job, whether they do it by hand or with a Plek machine. And the latter probably still involves a good bit of eye, hand, and judgment on the part of said Pro, for a complete, comprehensive set-up.

 

Note the list shown in my post above- not all of those steps are going to be automatically whiz-banged out by a Rube Goldberg-contraption, it's a combination of the machine's capabilities and the operator's use of the machine, AND some good-old-fashioned hands and eyes...

 

I don't expect that there're too many inexperienced, un-knowledgeable people running Pleks- they cost around what, $125,000.00 or more apiece, I believe? That's a bit of an investment to trust either the machine or the reputation of the business to a green newbie hack!

 

Note that Gibson owns and uses a few Pleks...

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Note that Gibson owns and uses a few Pleks...

 

probably the most logicl place for them, too. In the manufacturing stage. A guitar, set up like that from the start, could go quite a few years without needing futher adjustment of that type. (And think, some harder fret-wire, and you might only need trussrod adjustments. Oh, and the luthier to pull those shiny new superhard frets to replace them with 'vintage' soft metal wire....)

 

Bill

[Dr. Ellwood]

· THE PLEK SCAN

 

We take a look at the guitar neck : It is important that the guitar is under string tension and in playing condition when measured. The computer ascertained a 3-D like graph of the fretboard surface, including the position and height of the strings. Thanks to the PLEK SCAN the relief of the neck made by the string tension is taken into account while calculating the process-parameters.

 

 

 

· THE VIRTUAL FRETBOARD

 

In the menu VIRTUAL FRET DRESS the operator can not only determine how much should be cut off from each fret but also can set the fretboard radius and amount of fall-off suited for the instrument or player. One can see the height of each fret, respectively how high they will be after processing and where on the fretboard it would buzz because of frets being too high or too low. The first step would be to adjust the neck relief with help of the truss rod.

 

· PROCESSING

 

When all the parameters for processing are set, the Plek operator takes off the strings and starts the PROCESSING procedure. Depending on what parameters were entered, the frets will be cut as well as the nut and on acoustic guitars the saddle.

With the new generation of PLEK Machines (PLEK PRO) the frets are cut, on its predecessor (PLEK BASIC) the frets are ground. The fundamental concept as well as the control software are essentially the same ; with the same quality achieved the duration of the fretwork process on the BASIC takes merely longer than on the PRO and nut work has to be done by hand.

 

PLEK BASIC

PLEK PRO

Frets

With the grinding wheel, that is automatically straightened by the machine, the frets are ground to a 1/100 mm. The beveled edges of the disk round the sides of the frets (crowning).

With a customized wheel-cutter that looks like a thick saw-blade, the frets are cut accurately to a 1/100 mm. The teeth of the cutter have the profile of the frets in negative form, so that the frets are rounded (crowned) evenly.

Nut

The nut slots are cut to the desired height by hand, whereupon the control-scans give the necessary guidance.

The nut slots are cut with the HFS (High Frequency Spindle). An automatic tool-changer selects the necessary cutting bit. With a new nut blank, the top surface of the nut can also be cut. The slot distances in between the strings (spacings) as well as the angles to the headstock and tuning machines are finished according to the set parameters and matched to the selected string set.

Saddle

The string action at the bridge is set - depending on guitar type and model - with help of the control-scans manually.

With acoustic guitars the saddle can be clamped into a vice and cut to a desired string action height by the HFS. With other bridges, the action is set manually with help of the control scans.

 

· PLEK'D!

 

When frets, nut, and saddle have been processed, the instrument is strung up and tuned. The final scan checks to see if the result corresponds with the set specifications. If that is the case, then in closing, the frets are polished to a high gloss finish.

 

[miroslav]

So like what happens when you change string gauge....

...do you have to get PLEKED again?

 

I think it would be great to have a *perfect* setup done...

...but with things being measured at 1/100 mm, how much play-time will it take to whack things out of *perfect*, and will you be able to really notice it...?

 

But...I'm already too focused on some *VERY SMALL* adjustments within my studio/music environment...so I would really hate turning the whole music-making process into a laboratory experiment where you are forever sweating over micro-minutia (some days I already am ).

 

[Trucks]

I guess that is what Bill was saying about how tweeky do we need to get before we implode? Thinking about it, it's a very valid point. It will matter more to some people than it will others, and the end result will go unnoticed to anybody else other than the person that played the guitar before and after it was PLEK'd, and plays that guitar every day.

 

I think it is possibly one of those things where people with the money and inclination will take there guitar to be PLEK'd once every 6 months or so, same as many do with taking their guitar to a tech periodically.

[stamplicker]

YT - PLEX Pro in action

[stamplicker]

Mind you, the chances of what kind of damage that could be caused if a human screws up compared to a machine malfunction are a lot less and easier peice of mind =)

[Rhino Madness]

Steevo, that's cool that you got to see the PLEK in action on your precious '65 and I'm glad to hear that you're very satisfied with the results.

 

Like Bill, I remember reading about the price being several hundreds of dollars. The current pricing seems a lot more approachable.

 

I agree with the idea that finding a great luthier is the most important part and the PLEK comes second. Especially since there are many parameters to enter into the equation depending on the playing style and personal preferences of the player (it's not a one-size-fits-all situation).

 

As for the repeatability of the setup, I'm not sure if it's a big plus for me. On the one hand, I tend to not have several similar guitars but a few different ones so that one setup can not be applied to the others (different scale length, different radius, different bridge, etc.). And on the other hand, repeatability on the same instrument is not likely as I didn't have a great experience with fret recrowning: having nice shiny and rounded frets again was great but the size was different enough to affect the playing feel and now I'd rather wear the frets down more and have a full refret when the wear is too bad. By the time that's needed, my playing style and preferences have likely changed a bit anyway. But maybe I waited too long before the recrowning and should have had it done sooner.

 

All in all, the PLEK might be an option for me if I were to find a (fairly) local luthier I could get to know and trust.

 

Thanks everyone for all the comments and info!

[Caevan O’Shite]

Steevo, great to see you there!

 

(Somehow I had overlooked your reply posted above on this thread; glad I re-read it!)

 

Glad to read of your positive experience gettin' your vintage 335 Plekked. I'd imagine that having it done by no less than Joe Glaser himself was a definite plus, as well.

 

"I agree with the idea that finding a great luthier is the most important part and the PLEK comes second. Especially since there are many parameters to enter into the equation depending on the playing style and personal preferences of the player (it's not a one-size-fits-all situation)."

 

I also agree very much!

 

"As for the repeatability of the setup, I'm not sure if it's a big plus for me. On the one hand, I tend to not have several similar guitars but a few different ones so that one setup can not be applied to the others (different scale length, different radius, different bridge, etc.). And on the other hand, repeatability on the same instrument is not likely as I didn't have a great experience with fret recrowning: having nice shiny and rounded frets again was great but the size was different enough to affect the playing feel and now I'd rather wear the frets down more and have a full refret when the wear is too bad. By the time that's needed, my playing style and preferences have likely changed a bit anyway. But maybe I waited too long before the recrowning and should have had it done sooner."

 

I think that another side to that is, if the specs and/or programming for the Plek set-up on a particular guitar are kept, the end results would be repeatable on a total re-fret of that guitar, as well.

 

And, if your playing style and preferences have indeed changed a bit by then, I'd imagine that addressing your wants and needs called for by such changes would only be a matter of deciding with the luthier how best to deviate from the previous set-up for that guitar, and adjust the Plek's programming accordingly.

[soggybomb]

evidently, they are growing in popularity, seeing as G&L, Gibson, Heritage, Martin, and Takamine all use them.

[mdrs]

I know of a guy who has a HUGE collection of guitars. He's from another country. This guy bought his own PLEK, and uses it regularly to keep his guitars in good playing shape. Apparently, he didn't have a local luthier who was able to do the upkeep his guitars required, so he bought the PLEK, and has been very happy with it.

[Rhino Madness]

This guy bought his own PLEK, and uses it regularly to keep his guitars in good playing shape.

:eek:

[caprae]

I know of a guy who has a HUGE collection of guitars. He's from another country. This guy bought his own PLEK, and uses it regularly to keep his guitars in good playing shape. Apparently, he didn't have a local luthier who was able to do the upkeep his guitars required, so he bought the PLEK, and has been very happy with it.

 

If he has that many guitars how much playing time and wear can each one get?