Bobadohshe Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 I absolutely cannot get Esnips to work. The quest for online hosting continues. Quote Kawai C-60 Grand Piano : Hammond A-100 : Hammond SK2 : Yamaha CP4 : Yamaha Montage 7 : Moog Sub 37 My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section https://bobbycressey.bandcamp.com/album/cali-native Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leberwurst Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 I absolutely cannot get Esnips to work. The quest for online hosting continues. the copyright stuff? I've got the feeling they've got some algorythm there that analyzises the structure of the mp3... I tried to upload something, was denied and gave the file another name. It didn't work until I heavily edited the file (meaning cutting stuff and fading the end). DivShare ain't working for me, so I'm not gonna recommend it to you . There's a site called rapidshare, but IIRC they're pretty mean to... I think you can only download a file 5 times an hour or so. So if five people listen to it, the sixth one has got to wait Edit: Of course I could try to upload it onto my esnips acc, but I'm not sure it'll work Quote The Dromb Bopper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 Hey, sensitive and sentimental are *not* the same! However, I agree that your "Over the Raimbow" coda is both. :D Ok, so I've found a bunch of 20-year old stuff, among which I chose this half-sabotage of Gershwin's "Our Love is Here to Stay". (The score is too messy to show) Imagine James P. Johnson meeting Keith Jarrett at late night, they're both completely drunk and start arguing... Believe it or not, I used to play this with a singer. Our love is here to stay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 Almost forgot.... [font:Arial Black]HAPPY EASTER [/font]to all crazy 'harmonic' heads! (In case you're wondering, yes, I've had a few.... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SK Posted March 22, 2008 Author Share Posted March 22, 2008 Happy Easter to you, Carlo and everyone. That's a funny Love Is Here To Stay. Quote CD: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/stevekessler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 What are some techniques that you guys use when you're looking at something to spice up a tune? For instance... you can see where a melody is going and what chord it's going to land on and you reharm those pickup notes. Just for an easy example, lets say Misty. You see a Bb7 written and the notes in the melody Bb G to D with a EbM7 chord symbol. So my target is the EbM7 with the D in the melody. So I have two notes to deal with, Bb and G. To find roots for them, the easiest thing is to just go chromatically into the EbM7. I want the roots to move contrary to the melody(that's not carved in stone), so that gives me Db to D to the Eb. So this time, I'm gonna play: LH Db Ab F RH Eb G Bb LH D A F RH C E G LH Eb Bb F RH G A D I went chromatically into the Eb, but I could have used whole steps, m3s, M3s, 4ths, 5ths intervals to move the roots into the Eb and picked my scales containing the melody notes. You can obviously do this with more than just 2 pick up notes and with any tune and it'll always work. What are some other things that you guys have at your disposal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SK Posted March 22, 2008 Author Share Posted March 22, 2008 Gotta post and run - in between gigs here. Here's a mad scientist Rainy Day. Not the one I first put up, which must have been corrupted at Divshare. This one has electrical distortion for a few seconds - just consider it an inadvertent nod to Varese. It's musically stupid and doesn't deserve better. The first version was better but it's GONE. http://www.divshare.com/download/4084326-5cd Carlo, I stuck more chromatic chords on the bridge of "Our Love Is Here To Stay" - heh, for fun. http://www.divshare.com/download/4084329-d31 Kinda funny. I like the way your voicings probably force a healthy conflict of emotion on the listener, having to analyze each moment to decide what they're feeling. As it should be. While we're on mad scientists, here's a reharm of "If I Only Had A Brain" - this by my baritone sax buddy Glenn Wilson. We've done this together a million times, but I'm not on this track. He took the tune and added Giant Step's changes (actually Countdown changes) and a riff from Seven Steps To Heaven. So it's entitled "If I Only Had 7 Giant Brains." http://www.jazzmaniac.com/FRBrain.mp3 Linwood, I go about 99% by ear on the decisions I make on voicings. So I'll have to give your post more thought when I get home. Quote CD: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/stevekessler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 I can accept "I do it all by ear" as a valid answer. Just listened the the mad rainy day. You ARE mad. Great, SK as usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 I absolutely cannot get Esnips to work. The quest for online hosting continues. For $7.95 a month you can get ad free and up to 33% load time on Divshare.....I have no clue if this is a good price or worth it, as opposed to free. This is what I get for $7.77 a month - http://www.powweb.com/powweb/index.bml tell them kevinanker.net sent you Quote A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leberwurst Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 While we're on mad scientists, here's a reharm of "If I Only Had A Brain" - this by my baritone sax buddy Glenn Wilson. We've done this together a million times, but I'm not on this track. He took the tune and added Giant Step's changes (actually Countdown changes) and a riff from Seven Steps To Heaven. So it's entitled "If I Only Had 7 Giant Brains." http://www.jazzmaniac.com/FRBrain.mp3 That is sweet madness, especially as I just transcribed some of the solos by Carl Fontana over "IIOHABrain" (I play trombone, too *hides and runs*) and got those West Coast licks in my mind. Those double time moments crack me up, as the original idea of the tune SK, Dave, and Marino, thanks for all you're suggestions concerning OTR, I will work out a new version of that tune, as it's now lifted to a higher level Linwood, I don't think that is new to YOU , but I like to harmonize some of those notes before the "landing" as the #11 of the chord, so if you have e.g. "G" in the melody, put a Db7 (#11) underneath it. Also works nice with 13, but I prefer the sharp eleven. As a nice effect I also like to take a chorus of those tunes and put them in the parallel minor tonality. Works out fine sometimes. my 2 weak american $ cents Quote The Dromb Bopper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 No, it's not really new to me, but I'll still find roots that way all the time. It will take me places that my ear wont take me most of the time. Like with the same approach, it might make me think, hey maybe I'll try some kind of polytonal mumbo jumbo and using the same roots go: http://www.bellmusicproductions.com/clientdownloads/mty.jpg but now I'm seeing a Bb triad with 1 on top and subbing 2 for 3 over a Gb triad w/5 in the bass to a C triad over a E triad but I'll sub -7 for 1 to a D triad over an Eb and I'll sub 2 for 3 again. It's a good way for me to find places to go. Guys like SK, Marino, Dave, and Beeboss can do that without thinkin' about it and just go there. Me....I've still gotta think about it, try and understand what's happenin', get my ear use to it, and under the fingers. I've gotta a ways to go. Fun stuff; this music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 What are some techniques that you guys use when you're looking at something to spice up a tune? This is the $10million question, and it's difficult to talk about it without being at least a bit generic... I'll try. I've tried to assimilate many styles and techniques during the years; I tend to study one particular technique heavily during a period of time, until I feel I have grasped it, more or less. There techniques include '30 harmonies and songwriting, bop changes, advanced hard bop substitutions, latin stuff, pentatonic/quartal/modal harmony, Coltrane changes, non-functional harmony (post-modal), Miles' semi-free stuff, and so on. Also, having studied classical composition didn't hurt. Plus, I've been writing and arranging constantly. This training gives you two very important things... freedom of choice, and a good ear. Hopefully, you reach a point where all creative musical actions (composition, reharm, arranging, improvising) are approached the same way; you imagine an overal 'sound' in your head/ear, and you just go reaching for the right kind of chords and voicings to achieve it. Sometimes, I write with a particular instrumentation in mind (say, piano trio, quartet with sax, etc.) or even a specific group. Other times, it's just a lot of fun to write in style ("I want it to sound like Hank Jones"), or maybe you have commitments to do so. Your only obligation is to the music itself; it has to sound coherent and satisfying into the limits of the style. Sorry for the logorrheic/didactic tone... I guess you've waken up the teacher in me. I know you don't need to be reminded of those principles.... but if you like, I could post a couple of specific examples. I'm also far behing with checking the guys' stuff... I'll be back in a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 To add a bit to the the previous post... I've noticed that over the years, my harmonizations of standards have become simpler. Clearer too, I hope... OK finally I got to listen the 'Stormy' version of 'Rainy Day'. What to say, other that things like "SK, you're a super player", and "SK, you are nuts"... I also tried your alternative "Here to stay" bridge... it seems to make the song more coherent perhaps, but maybe more obsessive too... in other words, I like it. Dave - it's evident to me that "Skylark" is a special song for you. I love the overall mood; the basic harmonies don't sound too different from the original to my ears, but you seem to have done a lot of work on voicings, passing chords and turnarounds. I did a series of concerts on Cole Porter a while ago, where I treated his tunes all the way from 'light' reharm to totally ridiculous... but there's a song, "Everything I Love" (one of my favorites), which I didn't dare touch. I left every one of the original chords, doing just a bit of work to personalize the voicings. You don't mess with masterworks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SK Posted March 23, 2008 Author Share Posted March 23, 2008 Thanks Carlo. As you can tell, I wasn't seriously playing Rainy Day there. But fortunately, it didn't last long! To even find anything nice to say about it shows what a good guy you are. What are some techniques that you guys use when you're looking at something to spice up a tune? Linwood, that is a vital question you asked, what you decide to change in the music you're playing and how to voice it. My generic, unacademic reply promises to be boring: I don't look at reharm any differently than improvisation. For me, the motivation for a reharm is the personal mood or concept you wish to convey. If I don't think I can express myself any better than the original chords, then I'd want to play it verbatim. But I gravitate to music I can find myself in. I rarely sit down with the idea of reharming a song (an old tune in a new package) anymore, because I find arrangements limiting. Even when I do, when I play it, I still find myself trying get beyond the 'arrangement'. It's not "all by ear" for me, although mostly. Not to sound weird there, but I think that's common among musicians to play beyond analysis, once the language has become part of how you speak. IOW, I don't mathematically calculate what the next voicing will be (or stop playing and refer to a manual for the next set of chords. ) But sometimes I'll 'plot' an extended cycle of fifths in advance, or choose a voicing I want to hear for effect. And decide where to go next and how to get there, just like you and every good player does. I like surprise more than anything, so I'll veer away from 'expected' tones to find something different. Or if it becomes too dense and chordal, I may stress single notes or space more than chords. I have a short musical attention span for repetition, I think partly because people in general have become more conditioned that way. In popular music, repetition is still often the hook of the song, which condenses a whole song down to a single idea for me. So I always subconsciously ask myself "what is needed at this moment?" and if something is already being covered in the music, I'll seek out something else to play. Whatever is missing, whether it's a texture or even silent space, is what I try to consider. If a funk beat is the dominant aspect of a song, I'll establish that groove and then move on to peripheral solutions of 'what else can happen'. Then you're no longer being a traditional player in a traditional style, because you're supplying something that was missing. Like if a song is swinging hard for a while, I may play against the swing. No one idea or groove will get better and better past a certain point until it needs to move on. So my approach to improvising and playing all fits into the same strategy for reharm. Pardon the wordiness - sheesh. This may not be very helpful, but for the purpose of this forum, it's the most basic way I could explain it. Quote CD: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/stevekessler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Thanks for the replies, guys. I enjoy reading your takes on how you play and what you want out of a tune. You guys inspire me. I feel like Jack Nicholson in As Good As It Gets when he tells Helen Hunt, "you make me wanna be a better man." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 My generic, unacademic reply promises to be boring: Well, unacademic is good for me. I must be representative of the purpose of this forum. If I can bother you and the others with a question: do lyrics factor into your take at all? Sometimes? Never? I guess I've always considered the "personal mood" to have already been established. It's just a question of how psychotically you relate. Quote "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Sue, in a hurry, I'll just say that lyrics are often important to me (when I do know them, which is not always the case). For example, I reharmed "You don't know what love is" in a rather dramatic manner, because of the lyrics. I play "All the things you are" and "Everything I love" more or less straight, because I find that in these songs, lyrics, melody and changes work so well together, that there's little need to change anything. The lyrics for "I love you", on the other hand, are so silly that I changed everything, to create a kind of alienating effect. (I kept the melody intact, however; it's just beautiful) On other songs, however, I just don't consider the lyrics at all. For example, the version of "Easy to love" which I posted here, was done that way because I found the original changes rather simplistic, and the melody lent itself well to a kind of "late Bill Evans" treatment. On "Our love is here to stay", my goal was to obtain a kind of humoristic effect in a rather overplayed piece... and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Hey, Marino. Thanks. So much to think about here. Loving this thread and the music. Quote "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Well, and when are you going to contribute again? The sung "Rainy Day" was nice... and in case you don't feel like reharmonizing, you could always sing our perverse derangements. You sing well. Between the "Chord voicing for the day" thread and this one, there's plenty of choice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 HAHAHAHAHA. Darn that Garageband anyway. Makes everybody and their mother think they can sing. Quote "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 HEY. Just had to sign back in to say there is no emoticon to adequately describe my expression at this moment. Cheers. Quote "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 It'd be nice if T. Garvin would stop by sometime. I met him years ago in Richmond when I was doing a gig with some friends of his. He's the stuff. Love that tune "Mitch" of his. Smart dude. He's like Bill Holman or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SK Posted March 24, 2008 Author Share Posted March 24, 2008 Strangely enough, "Mitch" (the person) actually showed up last night at my gig. That's cool you spoke with Garvin, Dave. Be sure and tell him 'hey' next time for me. But not sure what he could say about me since he hasn't heard me play since I was in my 20's. I just did a (basic 'meat and potatoes' cycle of fifths) version of Secret Love, more as a demonstration of that cycle for anyone trying to get into reharm. It forced me into some weird spots playing on all those chords - hope it isn't reharmful. http://www.divshare.com/download/4089810-f8e Sorry about the electrical noise, I think it may be my microwave. Sue, I usually factor in lyrics when I know them, but not too much, since music can express beyond words- if that makes any sense. Quote CD: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/stevekessler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Hey, I'm inspired to transcribe your work. This one might be accessible. But you have to do something about that noise. It almost spoils it. You do make perfect sense. Thanks. Quote "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SK Posted March 24, 2008 Author Share Posted March 24, 2008 But that's a LOT of notes to write out, Sue. (Then I'd have to buy up all copies, so it doesn't, uh, get around.) The left hand movement and melody are the main things there. The noise is sort of a Bb drone. Best of luck if you attempt it. Quote CD: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/stevekessler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 oh, right. I just meant "play it", not write it out. Don't underestimate me. But I'll be damned if I'm looping your microwave. Quote "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SK Posted March 24, 2008 Author Share Posted March 24, 2008 It was worth the noise - what was in the microwave was delicious. Quote CD: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/stevekessler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 nevermind Quote "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SK Posted March 24, 2008 Author Share Posted March 24, 2008 For something different, I just stuck this slightly reharmed intro on "It's You Or No One", followed by two short samples of solo and trio trading on the same song. Fast tempo. http://www.divshare.com/download/4094515-1d5 Sorry for the somewhat large file. Quote CD: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/stevekessler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kad Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 SK - I'm dying to hear your stuff, but every time I go to divshare I get bombarded with pop-ups, and I have to back out. Quote Reality is like the sun - you can block it out for a time but it ain't goin' away... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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