Bytored Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Looking to pick up some studio monitors soon. Any recomendations. Any good deals out there? Looking to spend 200 possibly more. What can this strange device be? When I touch it, it gives forth a sound It's got wires that vibrate, and give music What can this thing be that I found? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s mel gibson1642606968 Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Powered studio monitors are the simplest way to go. Solid state, light and as loud as you can afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fumblyfingers Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Powered or unpowered?...oh......I just saw....... $200...hmm, that is not very much for monitors R.F.T. This is a critical part of your experience here. Maybe look at what Blue Sky has or M-Audio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fumblyfingers Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Blue Sky has these... http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EXO21/ M-Audio has a lot including these.... http://www.zzounds.com/item--MDOBX5A Samson..... http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Resolv65a/ Alesis.... http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/M1ActiveMkII/ You need to go down to a music shop and take a CD you like and listen to it on various systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudcat Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 ...You need to go down to a music shop and take a CD you like and listen to it on various systems. BINGO! My recommendation is to find something reasonably neutral sounding. This is not so much because of sonic accuracy (because you aren't going to get super accuracy in your price range). A relatively neutral speaker should help prevent ear fatigue, which set's in rather quickly while mixing if you're not careful. Mudcat's music on Soundclick "Work hard. Rock hard. Eat hard. Sleep hard. Grow big. Wear glasses if you need 'em."-The Webb Wilder Credo- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdrs Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Fumbly; which monitors are you using? I've use M-Audio BX5's; http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/MAudio-BX5a-70-Watt-Active-Studio-Monitors?sku=603707 Just the basics for me...nothing fancy. Don "There once was a note, Pure and Easy. Playing so free, like a breath rippling by." http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=574296 http://www.myspace.com/imdrs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Ellwood Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Do these monitors need a separate bass cabinet? http://www.thestringnetwork.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdrs Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 The M-Audio BX5's are powered speakers that function on their own. No separate bass cab. that I'm aware of. Don "There once was a note, Pure and Easy. Playing so free, like a breath rippling by." http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=574296 http://www.myspace.com/imdrs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillWelcome Home Studios Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 (double post... sorry!) "I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot." Steve Martin Show business: we're all here because we're not all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillWelcome Home Studios Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 You go into a store to buy monitors, and I can fool you every day. sll day long, into buying whatever I want to sell to you, pushing whatever product pays the most commission. And I really would be looking for the guy to come in who thinks that he's going to figure it out by listening in my store, 'cause it's gonna be fun hosing him. (Taking a salesmans point of view here....) I've auditioned a LOT of monitors. I have NOT auditioned many of the newer offerings. But when I was checking them out, the LEAST acceptable low cost monitor was the Mackie HR824. Anything costing any less simply had too many sonic compromises for my standards. Your standards may vary. Here's another warning... the whole monitor chain affects what you will hear, from the DACs through the preamp, amp, speakers, room, room treatment or lack thereof, placement of the speakers and the listener within the room. The advantage to powered monitors is simplicity and balance of components; making setup (relatively) easy. The downside is increased distortion, but at this price point that is not an issue. Bill "I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot." Steve Martin Show business: we're all here because we're not all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Ellwood Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 OK, so, because any of us can be easily fooled by a salesman, how do we pick monitors? Do we first create the perfect listening environment (by the book) then buy the most expensive monitors available, install these into our optimized listening environment and we are done? http://www.thestringnetwork.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fumblyfingers Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Doc I have Event 20/20 BAS's. I am not completely happy with them as I have heard really good monitoring chains before so I know what really good sounds like. The thing is I don't have a world class tuned studio space either...or the highest quality converters...or clean power....etc etc etc etc the list goes on. The Events are not all that bad though......well, I am sure Bill@ would not have much good to say about them LOL.......us lowly low-end Lite-Edition losers........LOL!!! Nah, just kidding. Look, since 99% of us will never be faced with mixing Steely Dan's new album, it seems silly to nitpick over what quality of equipment...to a point. You do want the best you can get of course but within your budget or perhaps a little over. That is how they get you though. The manufacturers have shit starting at$99...the next level is $199, then $299...then it usually but not always seems to jump to $499. $699 I seldom see but $799 I see often. $999 seems to be too close to $1000 which scares people with limited funds off, so now we jump to $1299...the bottom of the next level.....LOL, this is just an observation on my part....not based on fact! Each increase in price offers a feature you "must have" BUT at some point they have to offer something attractive and a decent product so it seems to me the $500 range is the way to go at this level. Now you have to weed your way through the total crap and look for the best offering. Much of this is going to be based on your ears. That is why I say take a CD in that you like and know the sound of. I always use Steely Dan's "Gaucho" as a reference...I love the kick drum and the sound of the bass guitar on most of it, it has some really cool percussion stuff and nice sounding hi-hats in the upper register etc and then the electric piano and guitars in the middle...middle high....lot's for my ear to reference from......maybe that is not accurate but it works for me for what I know and I am nowhere near expert level as far as high end pro audio knowledge. Again, once you get home they will sound a little different in your room...so it is tough. I say, spend as much time researching monitors online. Read the reviews, go to Pro Audio forums and ask, go buy the recording trades like Recording, Mix, EQ etc etc and read the reviews......research hard and then once you have a small list of what seems like it might work for you go and try find these at a Pro Audio store and listen to them. Again, spending too much when you have other responsibilities....a wife and child to feed etc etc is really stupid....so I would rather see someone get at least something they can afford which is still a lot better than the built in speakers in a computer. Just do not let them sucker you to paying too much if you cannot afford it. The other option is passive. I just always felt that now you have power amp specs to factor in and try match with some speakers....not always available to reference in a store. In the past many small studio's went for the Alesis RA-100 and Yamaha NS10-M's. The Alesis is now the RA-150 or higher....I am not all that sure they are that great sounding. Also powered speakers will generate some heat and maybe some hum......a power amp you can put outside the room to isolate that. Turn those powered monitors up and see if they are noisy with no audio coming through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillWelcome Home Studios Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 No, we read reviews done by professionals (and I say this, because a lot of the music mags now are hiring well meaning guys without serious in depth or wide-ranging experience...). That is why I mention on occasion how both Bob Katz and Glenn Meadows have spoken well of the mixes that they get in for mastering from people using the Mackie 824. There are two guys with serious cred, who definitely know what they are talking about. They see lots of mixes all the time coming through their doors, and they noticed the quality of the mixes coming from rooms with the Mackies. Does't that make you think? There are two sides to the "I ain't got no money!" argument. One side says that in that case, we need to find the least expensive option. But the other side says that, it is even more imperative to become an informed consumer. If you've got no money, you will be well served to spend a little time. For example, you can download a free room checking software from one of the home theater sites, and check your room with a $50 Radio Shack meter. To what end? To see what freqs are hot, and to check placement. Because in any room, there are going to be good and bad places to put speakers and listeners. Might as well pick the good spot if you can. And if there is a hot frequency...is there a cheap way to address it? Well, first you have to know what it is. $200 speakers are not going to bring much to the table. But I bet that a handy guy could find a box design, buy a pair of crossovers, a couple of Viva silk dome tweeters, and 4 Madisound 5 or 6 inch drivers, and do a reasonable duplication of a $4000 west coast highly respected speaker cabinet, for something in that price range. (You may not be able to save any money building a guitar from scratch, but the same does not hold true for studio monitor cabinets). Bill "I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot." Steve Martin Show business: we're all here because we're not all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fumblyfingers Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 I obviously cannot argue with Bill@ in this field...I just read up on these and they seem really good. Like the article I will paste says...it seems you should buy them just based on all the good things being written about them. I have seen them in print but because I am not financially in the market for monitors I have glossed over the reviews or ignored them. They seem good though, nice one Bill. http://www.tweakheadz.com/review_of_the_mackie_hr_824.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fumblyfingers Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Bill, what is a "West coast highly respected speaker cabinet"? I agree about the research and getting informed...at the end of the day for some this is not going to be an issue.....many are intimidated or even embarrassed about the whole thing, their lack of funds, lack of knowledge etc and will just go buy something that appeals to them on a financial and some other level, looks, weight, materials used, color.... etc etc I still would rather see someone with limited desire or impetus to become proficient at recording, get a pair of $200 monitors so at least they can have a better experience than the computer audio....but there again, perhaps there is a consumer 2.1 system out there for under $100 that is good value for money....you just don't know. I bought a system from Fry's for my wife's computer than was about $89 and for her it works fine for her iTunes and listening to audio on the computer. I dislike the sound of it......but I would also rather have that than nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miroslav Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 That is why I mention on occasion how both Bob Katz and Glenn Meadows have spoken well of the mixes that they get in for mastering from people using the Mackie 824. There are two guys with serious cred, who definitely know what they are talking about. They see lots of mixes all the time coming through their doors, and they noticed the quality of the mixes coming from rooms with the Mackies. Does't that make you think? Before I settled on my Mackie 824's...I went to a few stores and just casually auditioned monitors in a few price ranges, just to sorta' see which bunch would make the "first cut". Then I had it narrowed down to 3-4 pairs all in the same general price range...with the Mackie's being at the high end, along with some JBL, Hafler, KRK and Yamaha. I then went to my local store which has a decent, isolated "listening room"...and the salesman left me alone for like an hour with 3 pairs of monitors...Mackie, Hafler...and...??? (can't remember the third brand). Through all those steps...the Mackies kept coming up at the top (to my ears), and finally in that listening room with careful A/B/C-ing...I decided the Mackies were my choice...BUT...I wanted to try them in my studio to be sure, and they said I could buy-n-try for a few days, and as long as I didn't scratch them, I could bring the Mackie 824's back for a different pair, if they didn't work well my studio. They never went back! I was originally looking to find a pair of decent monitors for under $600....ended up with the $1200 Mackies. Just recently...all the stores were selling off their original Mackie 824 monitor stock, 'cuz there's now a new, "MKII" version. They were selling the original 824's for like...$400 each...which is a very good price! I almost bought a second pair... Yeah...lots of time spent...but I think I got pretty darn good speakers for *my* listening environment. And I do believe that to improve on things, I would have to spend 3-or-more times as what the Mackie's cost...and probably also do some more acoustic work in my studio. I can ride with these for awhile longer.... Now I do have a pair of less expensive JBL 4000-series monitorsand they sound OK...not bad, but certainly a lot boxier than my Mackie 824s. When I dont want to fire up my whole studio, and Im just doing basic cut/paste edits in the DAWI will use the JBLsthat way the Mackies dont get over-usedand I save them for the final, critical editing/mixing. miroslav - miroslavmusic.com "Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bytored Posted March 15, 2008 Author Share Posted March 15, 2008 This is great reading guys. I've done some searches on the subject on some recording forums and "Events" keep coming up among a couple others which escape me at the moment. Things to consider for me is the room. It's pretty much square and will likely change as in moving to another house in the future so making this space into a dedicated studio is not an option. I by no means am recording for anyone else but for my sonic enjoyment, a hobbyist, but want good sound and am picky. Analyzing the room.....don't think so for what I am doing. Here in NCW we have no pro audio stores to go compare monitors or anything like that. Sure I could drive to Seattle and do some A/B comparisons and may do that but not likely. I have decided to go in the price range of around $400. and think I can get for what I want/need in that price range. Thanks guys for the input and keep it going. I'm off to do some more monitor searching and review reading. What can this strange device be? When I touch it, it gives forth a sound It's got wires that vibrate, and give music What can this thing be that I found? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillWelcome Home Studios Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Here is an older article discussing some of the popular choices http://prorec.com/Articles/tabid/109/EntryID/154/Default.aspx If I was going to name the company, I would have done so originally. Sorry. D'Apolito designs, using a tweeter with flanking woofers, are simple to build. Crossover quality... well, for $200 we aren't going there. But the silk domes are the same ones in my Dunlavys (though not acoustically matched in an anechoic chamber, nor had the crossover tweeked for the response...) and really sound very fine. The NS10M sounds awful. But we owned three pair, and we mixed on them religiously -because- that was the standard at the time. I cannot tell you the joy I felt... seriosuly now, I was blown away and releved because I thought that I was suffering from hearing damage or something... when I stopped using the Yamahas. They have no low end, and a very agressive mid-high, much like the Sony 7506 headphones. I still have a pair. They have sat unused since about 96 or 97 in an empty office in the studio, until my brother puled them out last year and stuck them in his living room. Why do I feel so strongly about monitors, particularly for beginers? This is there the training starts. This is where the ears get acoustomed to sounds and learn to tell what is good from what is bad. And I have seen so many guys get used to the idea that they should be hearing distortion and crap and when they are then confronted with a good, clean sound, they cannot accept it and have to drive it hard until it distorts.... believe me, I have seen this happen to more than one budding young engineer. In fact, I was working a show for Dr Don (an icon in the industry, who passed away not so long ago) and he and I were walking the room while the engineer for the (major name) headliner was pegging the meters on all the channels of the board. We were listening for the system coverage and sound quality, as it was the first time that UltraSound had used anything other than Meyer cabinets. As he and I walked around the venue, chatting and listening, we were both dismayed by what the engineer was doing to the sound of the band. The engineer just couldn't grasp what he was hearing, it was out of his experience. Dr Don and his team had tried to explan how to properly set the gain structure and use the board. but the engineer wasn't interested in what they had to say. And, how can you mix something that you cannot hear? If the speakers roll off at 70 Hz, you can't mix frequencies below 70 hertz. Low budget small boxes (well, all small boxes) usually roll off too early for rock music. And, could you choose paint for your rooms while wearing sun glasses, or under artificial light? The monitor -system- (DAC, preamp, amp, speakers, room) need to be flat and accurate, or you aren't able to make good choices because you aren't hearing what is really there, you are hearing what is there plus the affects of your playback system on what is there. What gets doubly scary about that, is that you tracked, mixed, and mastered all on the same rig... so that puts the system anomolies onto the music at least three times. If there is a playback hole at 2650 Hz, you've corrected it three times, so there is now three times as much 250Hz on the recording as you thought that there was. The inverse is true for frequency bumps. It is true, anyone can buy anything and mix on them. If I was really in a 'no money' situation, I'd brobably go to the stereo mags and buy some no-name or house brand $88 pair of speakers. You'll get a far better deal there than you will off of anything associated with the word 'studio'. If I had about $200 and being a reasonably adept carpenter, I'd search up a design or go to PartsExpress.com and find the pieces/parts and build my own. (They even have fold-up particle board boxes, pre-finsied, probably cheaper than you could build your own, in several popular designs.) ut I would stay afar. far away from any music store. They are terrible places to buy studio monitors. In fact, I suggest to you all that todays modern music store is usually the place to go to buy on price, once you have already decided what you want. It is usually a poor place in which to decide what you want. (With the obvious difference of buying a guitar, which has to be done on a per-guitar basis, wherever you might find them.) Bill "I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot." Steve Martin Show business: we're all here because we're not all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strategery Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 We can't afford them...we can't afford them, cause, We got no money..we ain't got no money. http://www.funnyphotos.net.au/images/eddie-murphy-as-donkey-in-shrek-the-third1.jpg "Just play!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fumblyfingers Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Bill, I was not sure what you meant there.....Is the D'Apolito designs the West Coast speaker you were referring to? Unfortunately the links in the thread you posted do not work anymore so I cannot follow up on the reviews. Also on the $88 stereo speakers, you still have to buy a power amp.....what's that going to cost....minimum $200 and again, it won't be good enough really, as it is the lowest end amp one can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fumblyfingers Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Found this on speaker building. http://www.speakerbuilding.com/content/1105/page_2.php Oh and YES on the NS10-M sounding like crap.......I never got it........they always sounded boxy and middy to me. Yamaha made a fortune off those though I am sure. Man I just remembered these Wharfedale speakers my father built when I was a kid. They were huge and weighed a ton. They had a triangular top that fit into the corners of the room. He did a wonderful job. The front panels were probably 4" thick overall ( I think from memory, I was around 12 or something maybe younger ) and were two separate panels with a gap that was filled with river sand. LOL my mother hated them and at some point she wore him down over them and out they went. He bitched about that forever.....I don't think he ever got over it.LOL .....he ended up with Bang&Olufsen bookshelfs...this in the late 60's....he was really into it. I remember the Sansui AU-999 or some such deal...all my friends used to come over to my place to listen to records...LOL!!! Here is a quick rough and bad drawing...perspective off etc....of the Wharfedale design my dad built..... http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d42/Gypsyfingers/Picture1-3.png Oh...remember we had double thick brick walls with a 2" air gap in all our homes in South Africa. These would not work here...I just remembered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillWelcome Home Studios Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 ..., you still have to buy a power amp.....what's that going to cost....minimum $200 and again, it won't be good enough really, as it is the lowest end amp one can get. The last time that I looked, many years ago, you could get Phase Linear 400s, SAEs, and the smaller Carver power amps, used, for just over $100 each. Crown 150s weren't much more. Bill "I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot." Steve Martin Show business: we're all here because we're not all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bytored Posted March 16, 2008 Author Share Posted March 16, 2008 Ok so far I have looked at the KRK RP8 rokits HERE among many others but these are getting great reviews form users. I can get them for 179.00 each through the same place I bought my Spider Valve on ebay. What can this strange device be? When I touch it, it gives forth a sound It's got wires that vibrate, and give music What can this thing be that I found? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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