OT- Wants to move out!

[slap-pop-karl]

Wow, now it seems everyone is advicing me to move out.

So really I should put the decision down to my own because it may of been pearshaped for you but it won't mean it will happen to me, but I have to make sure I got enough money, which I have worked out that I will have, especially if I get a mate to go halfs with me on rent, Or marry a rich old lady.

I miss Thanny.

I miss the idea of having him around, I've never spoke to him. With questions like this am I supposed to think 'What would Thanny do?'

[TimR]

 

...

I miss Thanny.

I miss the idea of having him around, I've never spoke to him. With questions like this am I supposed to think 'What would Thanny do?'

 

 

I believe Thanny no longer lives at home, although I expect he probably wishes he does. You really don't want to do what Thanny did.

 

I'm not quite sure why you are seeking the advice of people who live thousands of miles away in a different country, on a different continent, with different network of social support and different laws. Even different states have different set ups from each other.

 

Phil hinted that most people move out when they are 19. Most of them move back in again after their course finishes and stay until their late 20's.

 

There is no solution, you have to do what you feel is right, when you think it is right.

 

BUT above all you MUST leave with good feeling towards your parents, keep in touch with them every weekend. Your relationship with them will probably be a lot better when they are not telling you what to do all the time, and there will always be a bed back at home if things get too rough.

 

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Wow, now it seems everyone is advicing me to move out.

So really I should put the decision down to my own because it may of been pearshaped for you but it won't mean it will happen to me, but I have to make sure I got enough money, which I have worked out that I will have, especially if I get a mate to go halfs with me on rent, Or marry a rich old lady.

 

Well, you are going to go through a period of adjustment and there'll certainly be a learning curve involved. Hopefully you'll come out of the adjustment period on your feet or at least not flat on your arse.

 

I think that, if you're going to go flatting, you're better off finding an established household as opposed to setting up with a mate who's in your same situation and at the same "newbie" level, simply because an established house has lots of stuff you wouldn't immediately think of owning. Stuff like a frying pan, or an ironing board, dinner plates, or any of that stuff that your parents own but you never thought of buying. It's a real (and expensive) pain to have to buy all that stuff first off, so you're better off sharing other people's stuff.

 

 

 

The best advice I can think of comes, bizarrely enough, from Charles Bukowski, who wrote, "Never get caught high on any kind of high and always have a little money!" Sage advice for the ages.

 

 

I've just noticed TimR's post. He's right: if you're going to leave home, don't slam the door on your way out. Your family is, bottom line, a resource. And you don't want to waste that. Hell, don't leave on bad terms with anyone, ever. Parents, bosses, friends, etcv. You'll eventually run into them again.

[rizzo9247]

BUT above all you MUST leave with good feeling towards your parents, keep in touch with them every weekend. Your relationship with them will probably be a lot better when they are not telling you what to do all the time, and there will always be a bed back at home if things get too rough.

 

Amen.

[Rocky McDougall]

"find a rich older woman and move in with her"?

 

Jeremy, I think you might have solved his problem.

Rocky

[Eric VB]

The unofficial count at this point is 2 in favor of moving out and a bazillion against.

 

IMO the question isn't "what does it take to move out?", but "what are your standards and tolerances?"

 

I'm guessing it's far more common that a child's parents can provide a better standard of living than than a teenage child can by himself/herself.

 

Especially if going alone -- without parental monetary support -- don't expect a nice house in a nice neighborhood, unlimited utilities, copious food and, of course, a monster size flat panel TV for watching the game and playing Wii.

 

Most young singles cannot afford to live up to a standard they can tolerate by themselves. This means living with roommates. If you think living with parents is difficult, try living with friends that don't pay rent, have disgusting habits like leaving dirty dishes in the sink and never washing them, get your utilities cancelled because they forgot to send the check, etc.

 

Don't be naive and think that "oh no, that'll never happen with my friends." You won't be the first to be proven wrong, and you won't be the last.

 

From a quick google the first number suggested was one quarter of your gross monthly income should go towards housing. If you spend more on housing you'll have to cut back on other areas. I don't recommend cutting back on food as you may end up in the hospital as a result. And even if paying for healthcare isn't as big of a burden there as it is here, keep in mind the lost wages while you're on the mend and the possiblity of losing your job if you're out too long.

 

Health is everything. You can't do anything without it. Don't take risks with your health. That includes eating healthy.

 

As far as commuting expenses go a bike is a good idea. However, if you plan on gigging with your bass and amp, I think a bike will not be sufficient. And can you tolerate riding in adverse weather? (Torrential downpour, hail, sleet, snow, etc.)

 

Also be mindful of the added risks of riding a bike. When I was at university the number of bike accidents were astounding simply because so many students rode a bike. (I never did.) Autos in particular have a hard time seeing bicyclists (and motorcyclists for that matter); the end result is often painful and takes a long time to heal, if it is not fatal.

 

Sure, there are stories of kids living in their cars around Hollywood until their acting career finally takes off one day. That takes a lot of tolerance. And for every success story I'm sure there are far too many stories of failure. It's like playing the lotto; only one winner and millions of losers.

 

But that is the last piece in this puzzle: risk. It is human nature, I think, to choose the safe choice and avoid risk. But there are always those that are risk takers. They may fail a thousand times but they'll keep at it until they succeed.

 

If you're not afraid of risk, if you're willing to live below a standard of living you can tolerate if you fail -- because when you take a risk the odds are greater that you will fail -- then go for it.

 

One last word of caution. For better or worse young adults' minds have not yet matured entirely to use good judgement. This is why, at least in the U.S., auto insurance is much higher for young adults. It's not necessarily that they lack experience operating an auto, it's that they make poor decisions while driving. You won't understand this until you are older.

 

As a consequence I think biology makes younger people more likely risk takers than older people. And the two shall never see eye-to-eye on such matters because they each have an entirely different point of view.

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

The unofficial count at this point is 2 in favor of moving out and a bazillion against.

 

Which seems to say a lot about the demographic of this forum. I am amazed by the amount of naysaying that you guys are coming out with.

 

In fact, I get the feeling that a bunch of dads are trying to justify their role by inventing a bunch of monsters waiting to pounce on anyone who sails over the edge of the world, or (even worse!) walks out of the house.

 

Maybe it's a cultural thing. My wife and I both left home at 18, in the face of dire parental warnings and a bunch of, "You'll never be welcome here again!" type rants and all that. But hell, moving out is something you have to do at some stage. Everyone in my generation did.

 

Just make sure you have a job and that you KEEP the job. Finishing high school is another HUGE advantage. There are MANY more jobs for guys who finished school than for those who didn't. So step #1 is: finish school. Step #2 is get a job and KEEP the job.

 

 

I'm guessing it's far more common that a child's parents can provide a better standard of living than than a teenage child can by himself/herself.

 

Especially if going alone -- without parental monetary support --don't expect a nice house in a nice neighborhood, unlimited utilities, copious food and, of course, a monster size flat panel TV for watching the game and playing Wii.

 

Call me old fashioned, but when I moved out, I didn't want ANY of that stuff. I didn't leave my parents' house in the suburbs in search of... another house in the suburbs! Things DID NOT go well at all, but I never wound up in jail or anything, and I had a great time. And no, my flatmates and I didn't have a television or a working phone or any of that stuff, but we didn't really care.

 

I was living in the real world, and that was heaps better than playing Wii.

 

This means living with roommates. If you think living with parents is difficult, try living with friends that don't pay rent, have disgusting habits like leaving dirty dishes in the sink and never washing them, get your utilities cancelled because they forgot to send the check, etc.

 

You're definitely right there, but somehow, that never really bothered me. Mind you, I was the classic bohemian type and thought doing the dishes was kind of bourgeois. And yeah, we were poor and life was rather precarious. I've changed since then (well, it's been nearly 30 years) but at the time, all that stuff just didn't seem very important.

 

And even if paying for healthcare isn't as big of a burden there as it is here, keep in mind the lost wages while you're on the mend and the possiblity of losing your job if you're out too long.

 

Well, if you have a job, they should pay you sick pay.

 

Also be mindful of the added risks of riding a bike. When I was at university the number of bike accidents were astounding simply because so many students rode a bike. (I never did.) Autos in particular have a hard time seeing bicyclists (and motorcyclists for that matter); the end result is often painful and takes a long time to heal, if it is not fatal.

 

Assuming he gets a bike, of course? When I moved out of my parents' place, I moved to the inner city and didn't really need private transport. YMMV.

 

DISCLAIMER: I'm not saying that moving out is the smartest move in the world, but really, the mechanics of it are quite simple: you have an income, you use it to pay rent and buy stuff. Just like everybody else does, including your dad. It's not exactly rocket science and pretty much everybody does it, eventually.

 

[Bottomgottem]

In fact, I get the feeling that a bunch of dads are trying to justify their role by inventing a bunch of monsters waiting to pounce on anyone who sails over the edge of the world, or (even worse!) walks out of the house.

The "monsters" are real and it's a dad's job to prepare a kid to deal with them.

 

Maybe it's a cultural thing. My wife and I both left home at 18, in the face of dire parental warnings and a bunch of, "You'll never be welcome here again!" type rants and all that. But hell, moving out is something you have to do at some stage. Everyone in my generation did.

I may be wrong, but isn't Karl 16?

 

Just make sure you have a job and that you KEEP the job. Finishing high school is another HUGE advantage. There are MANY more jobs for guys who finished school than for those who didn't. So step #1 is: finish school. Step #2 is get a job and KEEP the job.

And being only 16, is Karl not still in high school.

 

Well, if you have a job, they should pay you sick pay.

When I was in high school, I had a job bagging groceries. It's pretty much what I was qualified to do. It's pretty much what most high school kids are qualified to do. Good luck getting paid sick time at your local Winn-Dixie.

[Phil W]

Karl, how old are you?

[Rocky McDougall]

As stated before, the only good reason for leaving home at your age is getting out of an abusive situation. At 16, the smart thing would be to move in with relitives that care about you and would welcome you into their home. The age of 16 is too young to face the world on your own. Two or three more years can make a big difference. At this time, the best thing to do is try to improve your relationship with your parents, if possible.

Rocky

[moot]

Karl -

It sounds as though you are a typical 16 year old, and your parents are being typical parents.

There is nothing more humbling than striking out on your own and then begging back in when the real world comes to bear.

Stay home.

[rumpelstiltskin.]

Maybe it's a cultural thing. ... Just make sure you have a job and that you KEEP the job. Finishing high school is another HUGE advantage.

 

it is cultural, though not entirely due to US/UK differences (or US/NZ, as the case may be). most of the people are giving advice from the US, a country that does not provide nearly so many social services as the UK. that changes the debate considerably. there is also a blue-collar/white-collar cultural divide on this issue.

 

many of the people advising spk to stay home appear to have a college education. speaking as someone who also has a college education, the empowerment that it provides is difficult to replace, though much like moving out with success as a teenager, it is not impossible. (going to uni is also much harder, though not impossible, without help from parents.)

 

i think there is a belief in the US that you cannot truly gain financial success without a college degree. personally, i disagree with this notion, though few would argue that it is considerably easier to do so with a college degree.

 

in that light, encouraging spk to finish high school is almost entirely a given for most of us over here. those who do not finish high school are almost certainly destined to struggle meeting basic needs.

 

i would also point to your statement about finding and keeping a job. in my life, i have learned that what i thought was fun and good money at 18 or at 24 is not nearly what i find to be fun and good money at 29. i don't relish the thought of making $15/hour (about £6/hour) and working 10 to 6 appealing any more. that was way better than what my options were as a recent high school graduate.

 

i'm almost doing myself a disservice by keeping this one job, as there are plenty of better jobs. by comparison, my friend without a college degree has worked his way into something of management at his current job. this experience may not translate to a future job. it is critical that he keep this job, or his income may well drop considerably if he doesn't.

 

somewhere between 22 and 29, i gained consciousness of not only the next step in life, but also the step after that, and the step after that. suddenly, i am more concerned with creating flexibility and freedom than i am in creating enough money. the benefit of my education is that i almost don't worry about whether i have enough money today or this month. i already know i have enough money now. i worry about whether i'll have enough when i decide to stop working. this is something i am certain i didn't really understand when i was 16.

 

robb.

[Phil W]

Yes, there is a major difference in the UK. If you don't work, you get welfare and you get your rent paid by the local council. It's actually harder for the low-waged than the unemployed. Everybody gets free healthcare too. So it's actually a lot safer environment for young people to experiment in. That said, a good job gives you more freedom than welfare!

Also, the requirement to be a college graduate to get a good job is much less vital than in the States where even Masters degrees are becoming commonplace.

I left home for University at 19. I kept in touch at least every two weeks. Some of that time was rough; and my parents were supportive. I did spend one year doing very little but playing bass - most of the gigs were walking distance.

I would say if you're 18-21 and organised, then do it. But don't burn your bridges. I thought you were younger than that but I might be wrong.

[saxofunk]

suddenly, i am more concerned with creating flexibility and freedom than i am in creating enough money.

 

Well said. I'll add this and be on my way:

 

Flexibility and freedom are severely hindered by debt. Regardless of what age one is or what education one has when they hit the streets on their own, the ability to stay out of debt is critical to staying on top of expenses.

 

Stay out of debt. Spend within your means (spending < take home).

Enjoy life.

 

[slap-pop-karl]

@tim- Damn your full of knowlage, I didn't really expect american or other people to post as soon as I mentioned the currency and stuff but in some ways nice that they did. Keeping close to parents and stuff thats a sure thing. I know to keep to that, My sisters done that and she gets alot of help off of them with loads of things they are the only people that will except you for how ever you are.

 

@Krammer, really good advice. One of my friends has been wanting to move out for ages and he would be more than happy to. He lives in the countryside and wants to live in a village, he even considered declaring himself homeless to get in to shelterd accomadtion (a few of my friends have done that all wasters) he still hasn't got a job so I am looking out for work at the place I am at.

 

@ric- Luckely I don't have a big flat screen TV anyway so all is good in that department. Living in a bad area? Well it wouldn't really bother me that much, just keep a baseball bat by the door I don't think things usually happen to the people in the bad areas just people going through them. I could imagine that my some.....most of my friends would try to take advantage of my goodness but I wouldn't want to move out with some one that I strongly thought would do shitty stuff like that. I would make sure they had a job and stuff befor moving out with them. I can bike in pretty much every weather with out struggle. I would hope to move out some where closer to my work anyway so if it was to icy and stuff I could walk or catch a cheap bus ride there. Car insurence over here is massive to, For a group 3 car and for the area I live in I think the price is over £1000. Thanks for the post.

 

bottomgotem- Yes I am 16 but I left after my 4th year (when I finished my exams) I didn't choose to move on to highers and decided to get a job. The reason for this is that I really didn't think I was going to do any work to pass the higher exams so I didn't see the point. I did stay on for a while though, and the 'monsters' I think you can only prepare by experiencing. I don't think you can be taught what could happen in any other way.

 

@phil- I'm 16 years old, I'm 17 at the start of march. I think im alot matureer than most guys my age. I actually don't spend my money if I don't need to!

 

@robb- You only have to stay in school till 16 so I left after my exams, I have got some sort of grades and stuff but I don't think they would help in a work enviroment.

 

 

Thanks guys.

 

[Eric VB]

If you want an age argument that Karl can relate to, try this: Karl, how would you advise a 12 year old who wanted to move out on his own? How about a 10 year old?

 

Sorry about my ignorance of UK law but in the US minors (those under the "age of majority", at least 18) cannot sign most legal documents; their parent or guardian must sign for them. This includes things like consent forms for medical treatment.

 

Over here lenders do not normally allow minors to sign mortgages. Probably the most common exception would be if the minor is married. Even so young people often do not have a high enough credit rating to be accepted for a mortgage. Not even having the age old 10% down payment is a guarantee, especially with the current worldwide real estate credit crisis. Bottom line: buying a house is not realistic for most minors.

 

According to a Washington Post article, it can be very risky for a landlord to offer a rental lease to a minor, so I would assume it is rarely done. (Again, exception if married.) Some states do have laws that make rental leases contracted with a minor enforcable due to shelter being a "necessity"; in that case the landlord does not take on extra risk and may reasonably consider renting to minors. However, credit worthiness is still a factor. Bottom line: renting may be difficult to impossible for minors.

 

Concerning questions about Karl's age and choice of transportation:

Im 16 turning 17 now

Transport I won't need I gots a bike

[Phil W]

Yes, 16 is young. 18 would be different depending on the maturity.

 

Britain is different though, we do better without cars in many places here. I have a job, gigs and a family and I don't need a car.

 

My American wife left home when she was 17. She was already driving. Her parents moved away during her final year at High School and let her stay so she was a nanny/general dogsbody for a bunch of rich Marin County familes while she completed her studies. Then she went to Unversity then travelled abroad.

[Phil W]

UK Legal Ages

 

AGE 13

You can be employed for a certain number of hours a week

 

AGE 14

You can go to the pub, but you cannot drink or buy alcohol

You are responsible for wearing a seat belt

 

AGE 16

You can leave school

You can choose your own doctor

You can claim social security benefit

You can work full time

You can leave home with your parents consent

You can get married with one parents consent

You can drink wine or beer with a meal in a restaurant

You can hold a licence to drive a moped

You can buy a ticket in the National Lottery

 

AGE 17

You can hold a licence to drive any vehicle except certain heavy ones

You can engage in street trading

You can purchase an air rifle

You can leave home without your parents consent

 

AGE 18

You can buy cigarettes or tobacco

You can appear before adult courts

You can get married without your parents consent

You can vote

You can act as an executor of a persons will

You can bet

You can buy fireworks

You can change your name

You can apply for a passport

You can own houses and land

You can apply for a mortgage

You can go abroad to sing, play or perform professionally

You can sit on a jury

You can be a blood donor

You can buy alcohol

You can drink alcohol in a pub

You can hold a licence to sell alcohol

[TimR]

@tim- Damn your full of knowlage, I didn't really expect american or other people to post as soon as I mentioned the currency and stuff but in some ways nice that they did. Keeping close to parents and stuff thats a sure thing. I know to keep to that, My sisters done that and she gets alot of help off of them with loads of things they are the only people that will except you for how ever you are.

...

Thanks guys.

 

That's kind of you to say that, Usually people say I'm full of something else

and since Thanny's not around:

'knowledge' and 'you're', are the correct spellings. 'a lot' is two words and 'American' has a capital A

 

Make sure that job you've got has good prospects, or have a six month plan to start to look for one that has in erm six months?

 

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

@tim- Damn your full of knowlage, I didn't really expect american or other people to post as soon as I mentioned the currency and stuff but in some ways nice that they did. Keeping close to parents and stuff thats a sure thing. I know to keep to that, My sisters done that and she gets alot of help off of them with loads of things they are the only people that will except you for how ever you are.

...

Thanks guys.

 

That's kind of you to say that, Usually people say I'm full of something else

and since Thanny's not around:

'knowledge' and 'you're', are the correct spellings. 'a lot' is two words and 'American' has a capital A

 

Oh, go on Tim, why stint yourself! There's quite a few more things there that could be corrected.

[TimR]

Steady Kramer, one lesson at a time. Commas and full stops are tomorrow's subject and I'm not even going to approach the apostrophes. Let's just work on the spellings first eh?

 

You're doing better now Karl than when you started. Good English is a prerequisite for most jobs. Even Plumbers and Electricians have to write reports now!

 

I might stop now before I mispel somthing or put some apostrophe's in the wrong place.

 

[jeremy c]

I might stop now before I mispel somthing or put some apostrophe's in the wrong place.

 

It's misspell, something, and apostrophes. PLEASE don't use an apostrophe when pluralizing a word.

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

And PLEASE don't add the "s" when indicating the possessive on a plural.

 

This is "a bass players' forum", and not "a bass players's forum".

 

Not saying you guys DO that, but it just looks gross when somebody does it.

 

 

Hey, and speaking of spelling... does any other country have the story of the cop that dragged a dead horse from Castlereagh St. to Pitt St. just because it was easier to spell on the report?

 

I'm sure you don't have the same street names as Sydney, but do you have a similar story?

[slap-pop-karl]

@Ric, well they are defiantly to young and it illegal. You don't get a mortgage to rent out a property. The UK is different one of my friends (had to move out) was living with his girlfriend, who does jack shit work was living off of abursury(sp)(money the government gives to help with college. He managed to get a place for rent.

 

 

@phil In Scotland you don't need consent to leave home or get married.

 

@tim when you say good prospects what do you mean? Will I like it enough to stick in? I know my spelling is bad but it could be worse.

 

@Krammer Was there no street signs?

 

 

[Paul K]

And PLEASE don't add the "s" when indicating the possessive on a plural.

 

This is "a bass players' forum", and not "a bass players's forum".

 

A couple years ago I went past a farm stand that was advertising "You Pick Bean's"

 

Glad my name isn't Bean.

[rizzo9247]

...or the one who was doing the picking

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

@Krammer Was there no street signs?

 

 

That's only one "m" in "Kramer" and you meant "were there no street signs?" (just kidding you)

 

 

 

I really doubt the story is true, it's just that it sounds like SUCH an urban legend that I wouldn't be surprised if other countries had their own versions too.

[Robitaille59]

I was about to post some sensible advice to Karl but as I read the threads I thought...damn we're a bunch of old sensible people aren't we?

 

When I was 19 I left home in a 1981 Toyota Starlet and drove 9,000 miles in 30 days.

 

I left from upstate NY and by the time I got to Seattle WA I thought I'd look to see if I had a spare tire.

 

I had a blanket, a knife, an acoustic guitar, a jar of peanut butter, a loaf of bread and $200 when I left.

 

Now I'm 38 and I don't even want to leave the state of Texas. I have insurance for everything.

 

Everything.

 

My air conditioner breaks down I'm insured...you name it and I'm insured.

 

I paid $500 for a dog.

 

A dog!

 

I didn't know where my next meal was coming from at some points in my life when I was younger but now I could fill this room with burritos if I wanted to!

 

Karl's gonna do what Karl's gonna do...he's a teenager and worse than that he's a dude with musical aspirations.

 

Maybe it'll work out for him and if it doesn't he'll be wiser for the experience.

 

anyway back into old guy mode with one bit of advice...get a car big enough to sleep in just in case.

[TimR]

@tim when you say good prospects what do you mean? Will I like it enough to stick in? I know my spelling is bad but it could be worse.

 

Find out what inflation is.

 

The police are having a hard time at the moment. Their pay rises are fixed at something like 2%.

Recently house prices were rising at 10%, fuel was similar, my council tax rose something like 30%.

However, the government figure for inflation was around 2.5%

 

With figures like that you actually have LESS ability to buy things each year than the year before. Although the figure you earn is larger, what you pay out is increasing, even if you only buy the same things. So the only way to keep ahead of these price rises is to get promotion to get a decent rise, or move jobs. Most companies will give you a rise based on just above inflation, but this will not be guaranteed. I went 3 years without an annual rise with my company, but that was due to other issues.

 

So in essence it may seem I'm talking about promotion, but you also may get paid more if your boss thinks you are doing more than the basics normally required. Its all a bit of a game really.

 

While you are living at home or in cheap rented accommodation, this is fine, but one day you'll want to go on holiday or buy a car, or replace your amp because it finally got too old.

 

Get yourself the google task bar, its got a spellcheck on it, and a pop up blocker. The same words will keep coming up a mis-spelt and you will come to recognise those you have trouble with and learn them. We use it at work, so it must be safe.

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

@tim when you say good prospects what do you mean? Will I like it enough to stick in? I know my spelling is bad but it could be worse.

 

Find out what inflation is.

 

The police are having a hard time at the moment. Their pay rises are fixed at something like 2%.

Recently house prices were rising at 10%, fuel was similar, my council tax rose something like 30%.

However, the government figure for inflation was around 2.5%

 

Wow... The police are criminally underpaid, no matter where you go.

 

If I had a job where just wearing the uniform was going to turn me into a lightning rod for all sorts of trouble, I'd definitely want a lot more money than the police gets. Here they get about the same money as the average clerk, even though clerks don't usually have to take on armed criminals.