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where are keyboardists like this today? (R)


delirium

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Keith at the peak of his form. Very good.

It could be said that even back then, there were very few keyboardists 'like that'. :D

 

Also, I believe that maybe 10% of that performance is improvisation, even less perhaps. I have a recording of a concert from a year before or so, where he he plays much of the same passages.

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Also, I believe that maybe 10% of that performance is improvisation, even less perhaps. I have a recording of a concert from a year before or so, where he he plays much of the same passages.

Ya know, I've noticed this about Keith as well.... Do you find this disappointing in any way?

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."

- George Bernard Shaw

 

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Also, I believe that maybe 10% of that performance is improvisation, even less perhaps. I have a recording of a concert from a year before or so, where he he plays much of the same passages.

Ya know, I've noticed this about Keith as well.... Do you find this disappointing in any way?

 

No, I don't find it disappointing at all. If Emerson or anybody else likes to prepare his performances in advance in an improvisatory-like style, that does not make it less pleasurable to listen to, in my view.

I only remarked it because the video was presented as an "improvisation".

 

Now, there *are* a few instances of "non-improviations" which I find disturbing... it's when somebody takes someone else's improvisation and plays it. There was a French guy, can't remember his name right now, who used to play the solo version of Bill Evans' "Turn out the Stars" note-for-note, as it were a classical piece! :eek: Also, someone made a whole album of Art Tatum interpretations, transcribed and played exactly! :freak: Of course, the feel and sound of the original was another thing altogether...

I mean, life is too short - what's the purpose of spending one's time and energy in such silliness?!

 

Ooops, sorry for the digression... :D

 

 

 

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Who cares how much improvisation is going on when he's playing like that. It's pretty impressive playing.

 

As for the title, it was probably written during an improvisation. (Wish I could improvise at that level! Hell, I'd be happy to PLAY at that level!)

Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me.
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Keith is a classical player gone rock, so it makes sense that some of his stuff would be planned out, and some improvised. You can tell some of the patterns he's playing in his left hand are memorized and on automatic pilot, which give his right hand freedom to improvise bluesy lines. Good technique and endurance there for sure, and musically it doesn't matter to me either if it's partially planned out.

 

I actually like it for what it is. Although it's all full throttle - there's a harmonic and dymanic single dimension quality to it, which it shares with most hard rock.

 

 

 

 

 

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There was a French guy, can't remember his name right now, who used to play the solo version of Bill Evans' "Turn out the Stars" note-for-note, as it were a classical piece! :eek: Also, someone made a whole album of Art Tatum interpretations, transcribed and played exactly! :freak:

 

this is really silly thing to do indeed :freak:

 

 

regarding improvisation I guess we all repeat ourselves more or less in every performance. Repetition is essential part of the music anyway, isn't it? Especially in blues, jazz - all those licks, riffs, progressions...

 

♫♫♫ motif XS6, RD700GX
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.....No, I don't find it disappointing at all. If Emerson or anybody else likes to prepare his performances in advance in an improvisatory-like style, that does not make it less pleasurable to listen to, in my view....

My sentiments as well, Marino, although I must admit that when I was first introduced to this stuff I thought it was improv....sure does sound like it at first blush. I was just curious as to the thoughts of someone of your musical caliber.

 

I'm a huge Emerson fan, and I've now seen him six times with ELP, and once with "3" back in the 1980's. Some of the ELP concerts were in close temporal proximity of each other, so I recognized a few of the recurring passages. A couple of the shows absolutely blew me away, especially the one I had the privilege of attending at the Chicago Theatre....Hey Tony, did you happen to catch this show?

 

From the ELP performances I have seen, I discovered they can be a streaky band; generally as Keith goes, so goes ELP....which makes sense, although there was a night or two when Greg may have smoked a few too many cigarettes. Conversely, I always found Carl's performances to be highly consistent. While I left every ELP concert in a musical daze (and contemplating retirement from music), it was somewhat comforting to know that even the great ones may occasionally appear closer to mortal human beings, relatively speaking, although Keith may have still been recovering from surgery at the time.

 

Not to get too far off-topic, but on a related note, Keith's book "Pictures of an Exhibitionist" is a great read. I found it highly inspirational. If you don't have it, I encourage you to place it on your Christmas list!

 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."

- George Bernard Shaw

 

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As I did say in my opinion Improvising is half of it, but I cannot even touch his Musical pieces at all, but, I'll get there! HAHAHA. But, copying solos to me is unbelievably stupid, I think you should, though, if you are in like a cover band, or covering an infamous song (like Freebird) do at least PART of the solo, like the MAIN part of it, but then do your own thing, like me with Riders On The Storm, I do a little of Ray, and a little of me.
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If you start worrying too much about whether it was improvised or not, you're starting to get concerned with the process as opposed to how good the actual music is. There are some people you'd go to see mainly for their imaginations and ability to pull things out of thin air, Keith Jarrett might be a good example. That's not necessarily what you're after from Emerson, you're looking for the quality of the music and to be stunned by his performance. Now, if you could find four recordings of "Tarkus", all brilliant and each greatly different from all the others, that'd be a real nice bonus.
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I think there are lots of great keyboardists/piano players around today... just that they aren't too into prog rock but more into the classical influenced jazz style thats happening...

 

I know that every classical pianist can play like that,

but I see very little of such virtuosity in jazz and none in

other styles. Looks like musicians are more lazy these days,

why practice when you have all those sequencers and sh*t...

In seventies we had to practice, there was no other way :laugh:

♫♫♫ motif XS6, RD700GX
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There was a French guy, can't remember his name right now, who used to play the solo version of Bill Evans' "Turn out the Stars" note-for-note, as it were a classical piece! :eek: Also, someone made a whole album of Art Tatum interpretations, transcribed and played exactly! :freak:

 

this is really silly thing to do indeed :freak:

I disagree. You can learn a lot transcribing great works, even improvised ones. And audiences can enjoy them. I wouldn't put it on the same level as other artforms, but I wouldn't call it silly. And I can understand how it may be disappointing to some, just as failure to improvise is disappointing to some.

 

For example, Branford Marsalis lives here in Durham. I haven't met him myself, but we have a mutual friend who tells me that Branford says that if you're not reinventing the music each time you play it, you're ... well, I don't remember the exact ending but it isn't very appreciative.

 

On the other side, I remember as a youngster having a housemate who was a guitarist. He was working out solos for his band's tunes. I said something like "Aren't solos supposed to be improvised?" His answer, "It sure helps to work out a structure. Otherwise you tend to play the same solo for all the songs, or they can lack structure and dynamics. And you're free to leave the plan at any time." Good lesson! I should follow it more.

 

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I know that every classical pianist can play like that,

but I see very little of such virtuosity in jazz and none in

other styles. Looks like musicians are more lazy these days,

why practice when you have all those sequencers and sh*t...

In seventies we had to practice, there was no other way :laugh:

 

BINGO. Kids these days, man... I heard Al DiMeola go off on a rant about this. Now, he's an egotistical jerk to be sure, but he's also a blazing virtuoso. He said that he doubted that many kids coming up today had the passion, work ethic, or even sheer will to play at his level. I am afraid he's right. I hope not.

 

Case in point: Emerson's left hand ostinato beginning at 1:45. There's more skill and musicianship in Emo's left hand than in any dozen of us poor bastards on this board.

 

As for improvised versus pre-planned: At some point, even the most intricately planned piece of music was a mere lightbulb going off in some musician's head. I'm sure Emo stumbled upon the ideas behind his "Piano Improvisations", etc., while simply screwing around.

"I had to have something, and it wasn't there. I couldn't go down the street and buy it, so I built it."

 

Les Paul

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A pianist can humanly only reach a certain pinnacle of technique.

 

So I'm sorry to disagree with any of you, but there's as much virtuosity in a top jazz player as there is in a top classical player. That's not to slight classical players, but just including other great musicians. Part of a long list: Oscar Peterson, Art Tatum, Chick Corea, Bud Powell, Keith Jarrett, etc.

 

Jazz players also absorb a great deal of classical music to become well rounded jazz players.

 

Some also play it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4i8G2USqe4

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I know that every classical pianist can play like that,

but I see very little of such virtuosity in jazz and none in

other styles. Looks like musicians are more lazy these days,

why practice when you have all those sequencers and sh*t...

In seventies we had to practice, there was no other way :laugh:

 

BINGO. Kids these days, man... I heard Al DiMeola go off on a rant about this. Now, he's an egotistical jerk to be sure, but he's also a blazing virtuoso. He said that he doubted that many kids coming up today had the passion, work ethic, or even sheer will to play at his level. I am afraid he's right. I hope not.

 

 

If you read magazines back in the 1970s they would have been full of musicians stating how guys like Meola were passionless, all about technique and so forth.... so it all boils down to personal preference.

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A pianist can humanly only reach a certain pinnacle of technique.

 

So I'm sorry to disagree with any of you, but there's as much virtuosity in a top jazz player as there is in a top classical player. That's not to slight classical players, but just including other great musicians. Part of a long list: Oscar Peterson, Art Tatum, Chick Corea, Bud Powell, Keith Jarrett, etc.

 

Jazz players also absorb a great deal of classical music to become well rounded jazz players.

 

Some also play it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4i8G2USqe4

 

I agree.. I think Dementia just likes to be provocative... theres plenty of passion in modern jazz players.. just that they don't play up the pyrotechnics and overwrought facial expressions of the guys in the 70s... :-) In fact I love where modern jazz is going, I can't bear listening to jazz players who play like its 1950 for too long... again personal preference.

 

 

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Nice Clip. I like Keith a lot.

 

Improvised vs. Planned?

 

The distinction falls apart sometimes. It's more of a continuum than a set of opposites. You can perform the same notes of a planned piece several times ... and something on the inside of you is still working to bring something new to each performance. It won't stop.

 

Or you are improvising ...but you are actually drawing on a set of higher level templates. Some are conscious, some subconscious, but they are there. Whether you do it at a lower level of abstraction ...

 

scales, arpeggios, licks

 

a medium level of abstraction ...

 

circle of fifths, dramatic form, color,

 

or a very high level of abstraction

 

emotion, worship, ethos, persona

 

These are just examples, and I am not claiming any superior knowledge here. I have seen pipe organ improvisers playing as though they were playing scales ... and strict classical pianists delighting in each note...which tells me that fully engaging the creation of the music is more important than the level of abstraction at which we create it. IMO.

 

Jerry

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There is a classic jazz album called "Satch and Josh". It puts Oscar Peterson, pyrotechnic master, together with Count Basie, master of understatement.

 

You know what? It works great. Oscar plays 50 notes for every one Basie plays, but the sheer musicality and timing and economy of Basie are every bit as enjoyable.

Moe

---

 

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Technique versus passion... it's a fine line, to be sure. It takes a certain amount of chops to get your ideas out of your head and into others' ears. I'm nowhere near the player that the guy in my head is, especially since he plays keys and I don't. :(

"I had to have something, and it wasn't there. I couldn't go down the street and buy it, so I built it."

 

Les Paul

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There was a French guy, can't remember his name right now, who used to play the solo version of Bill Evans' "Turn out the Stars" note-for-note, as it were a classical piece! :eek: Also, someone made a whole album of Art Tatum interpretations, transcribed and played exactly! :freak:

 

this is really silly thing to do indeed :freak:

I disagree. You can learn a lot transcribing great works, even improvised ones.

 

For learning and practice purpose that's ok but for performance playing note by note what somebody else improvised I don't see a point. Especially in listening to such player.

 

♫♫♫ motif XS6, RD700GX
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