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Chromatic intervals


jar546

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So here I am on the couch working on my Practical Theory Complete book of music, listening to a jazz channel on DTV going over what I though I knew and then POW, here I go again with something that does not make sense to me.

 

In the teaching of this book they state that:

 

If the upper note of an interval is not found in the major scale built on the lower note. it is called a Chromatic Interval. Fine, OK, no problem.

 

It also states that: If the upper note is 1/2 step lower than a major interval, it is called a minor interval. Again, fine, no problem.

 

If the upper not is 1/2 step lower than a minor or perfect interval, it is called a Diminished Interval. Yeah, OK, I know that.

 

This is the problem:

 

They are showing a treble clef (no big deal) with 2 notes explaining what they are by showing a note on C and a flat note on D. OK, I get this, it is a minor 2nd. Then they show a C and a D with 2 flats that they are calling a dim2 when in my head I am thinking this is a perfect prime (same note). Between this example and the C and double flat E which they are calling a dim3 I just don't get it because in my eyes it is really CD which is a Major 2nd.

 

I can probably guess which 3 guys are going to respond to another one of my music theory questions. As always, I appreciate the input and sharing of knowledge.

"The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know" by Me
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A "C to E" could never be any sort of 2nd, because the distance is always a third (C, D, E) - even if it's an E double flat.

 

Enharmonically it is equivalent to a Major 2nd (C->D) - you are correct, but it must always be called a third.

 

There are two things that define intervals. The type (which is defined by how many letters appear, such as second, third, fourth, fifth etc) and the Quality (perfect, major, minor, diminished etc).

 

;)

 

*Edit: I'm guessing I wasn't one of the three?

 

:thu:

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Yeah, diminished intervals are weird 'cause people always think you should just use the other name for the note.

 

For instance, a C dimininshed 7th chord has a diminished 7th interval in it. That's a Bbb.

Q."but isn't that an A?"

A."It sounds just like an A, but it is called a B double flat"

Q."But why?"

A."Because it is a diminished interval"

Q."Why not call it a Cm6b5?"

A."Because no one does. The name diminished seventh chord has been used for a few centuries and the chord is called a C diminished seventh."

Q."What about half-diminished seventh chords?"

A."We'll cover those next week."

 

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Yeah, diminished intervals are weird 'cause people always think you should just use the other name for the note.

 

For instance, a C dimininshed 7th chord has a diminished 7th interval in it. That's a Bbb.

Q."but isn't that an A?"

A."It sounds just like an A, but it is called a B double flat"

Q."But why?"

A."Because it is a diminished interval"

Q."Why not call it a Cm6b5?"

A."Because no one does. The name diminished seventh chord has been used for a few centuries and the chord is called a C diminished seventh."

Q."What about half-diminished seventh chords?"

A."We'll cover those next week."

 

So we tune our basses F flat, B double flat, E double flat, A double flat? My brain hurts...

 

Seriously, Jeremy, nice explanation! You're a gentleman and a scholar.

 

 

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what about half diminished 7th chords?

Is it next week already, Jason? :)

 

This chord used to be called a m7b5 chord. The notes are 1 b3 b5 and b7, so it looks like a diminished chord with a minor 7th on top as opposed to a diminished seventh chord which has diminished triad and a diminished seventh on top. I tell my students it is called a half diminished seventh chord because "the seventh has half as many flats."

 

In scale-wise harmony, the chord would be a VII chord, but in rock and jazz, it is almost never used.

 

It is a very common chord in jazz used as a II chord in minor keys. A very typical progression would be D half-diminished seventh, G7b9, Cm. You might see it written as:

|DØ7 | G7b9 | Cm |

or

|Dm7b5 |G7b9 |Cm |

 

Blue Bossa is a good example of a song using this chord.

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Yes, I don't really like the name 'half-diminished' as it's a bit confusing to newer students. But it's used a lot as it's shorter than saying minor seven flat five so to contradict myself, I do use it a lot! ;)

 

Have a look at the Locrian thread:

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=5&Number=1803757&Searchpage=2&Main=131464&Words=locrian&topic=0&Search=true#Post1803757

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