Whatever became of flamenco guitars?

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

I remember that some of my first "teach yourself guitar" books mentioned "flamenco guitars", which were a lot like classicals, but with peg tuners and two rectagular (sort of) scratchplates, one on either side of the soundhole.

 

And it occurred to me yesterday that while these old books had the occasional illustration, I've never actually seen one? Did there use to be a lot of them and they've since gone out of fashion or were they just a figment of the author's imagination?

[MILLO]

They are still around. The modern ones look pretty much like any classical guitar, the difference is what's inside, sometimes the woods (more "traditional" ones are made of cypress back and sides sometimes w/ some maple). Their sound is usually dramatically different to my ears, but possibly not for someone who's used to steel-string guitars. I can tell you about this experience I had, playing this awesome classical guitar alongside a flamenco player who had just brought a flamenco axe from Andalucía. At some point we said to each other "whoa, that guitar you're playing sounds great, can I try it?". We switched guitars. All of a sudden we BOTH SOUNDED LIKE CRAP! It was hilarious! We had to momentarily switch right-hand technique to get good sounds.

[Gruupi]

In my quest to find a high end classical I came across as many flamenco guitars as hand built classicals. I don't know most of the differences, and I suspect most untrained musicians couldn't tell the sound difference either.

[Fingerstyle_Jim]

I have a flamenco guitar(Apariccio, hand made in Spain) but it has standard tuning keys like most classical guitars. I've read that the old style tuning pegs are too difficult to use/maintain so they are used less and less. Mine has a clear plastic tap plate on the bottom part of the front only, which works for me because I only use my index finger for tapping(or golpe). Some players use their thumb to tap above the strings as well but I've only seen one do that so far. This guitar weighs far less than any of my classical guitars and leans toward the treble side a little, but it sounds great for playing classical as well as flamenco. I have used it for a few classical gigs where I knew amplification wasn't needed just because I like playing it. For most classical dates I use my Takemine electric classical. I am working with a flamenco dance instructor that wants me to play for some of the flamenco dance students in her class in the near future, it's proving to be a challenge for a guy like me that grew up in Canada and isn't used to all of the nuances of this exotic style of guitar music, but I'm enjoying the experience,

 

Jim

[fantasticsound]

I have a Spanish built Granados that my parents bought for my mother to learn simple strumming and light fingerpicking. None of us every studied Flamenco style. (Or classical, for that matter.)

 

I don't remember what the top wood appears to be but I'm reasonably sure it's Rosewood sides and back. The scratch plates are very thin plastic. Other than that it's exactly like any other classical guitar I've seen up close.

 

Flamenco guitars aren't very prevalent because Flamenco guitar playing, outside Spain, is a tiny niche of a tiny niche. The dual scratch plates, you may or may not be aware, are for percussive tapping that is one hallmark technique that defines Flamenco guitar playing.

[MILLO]

soundboard-tapping by the great Sabicas, at the beginning of this danza árabe:

 

 

an awesome example of bulerías:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZD5i4STrGY

 

 

[MILLO]

oh... sorry for just using this thread as an excuse to post those vids, but there's a flamenco guitar on them, WITH the flamenco sound!

[Eric Iverson]

I've always liked flamenco guitar music (not so much the vocals, although they are just as important as vocals in the blues!)

 

I don't think I've ever seen a real flamenco guitar. They may have a couple at the store on W 47St in Manhattan, which is dedicated to classical and flamenco guitars and guitar music.

 

I wish I could play music videos at work. I have a cassette of Sabicas... incredible guitar player! (But I've never actually seen him play, even on TV.)

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

soundboard-tapping by the great Sabicas, at the beginning of this danza árabe:

 

 

Bah... I imagine the guy is much better, but the piece doesn't requie much in the way of golpes. I mean, the golpes on that vid are ok, but I think this guy is more interesting, and without benefit of a tuxedo It's a Spanish language video, but even if some of you don't understand the explanations, it's well worth hanging around for the playing and unusual rhythms

 

 

 

This guy is not bad either, though he's not as good as Atahualpa Yupanqui himself: IMO he hasn't got as much control over the strings as he should. But there's some really neat soundboard tapping here too.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKLQrzBH030

 

(Video finishes at about 3:05, the rest is some TV presenters talking)

 

[MILLO]

no, not those golpes--by the way THANKS, I've added that 1st video to my favorites, need to study exactly those rhythms these days--but soundboard-tapping. Like I said, it's only at the beginning of the danza arabe, poossibly only 2 or 4 taps, the other has some occasional ones. They're played w/ the a (ring) finger while the rest of the fingers are actually plucking or strumming.

 

...hahaha, that's why I said "sorry", b/c I just used the word "flamenco" as an excuse to post both vids. I just think Sabicas is awesome.

[MILLO]

Vince, este video es precisamente algo que me conviene muchísimo! Justo en estos meses iba a empezar a ver música andina/del norte argentino, etc...

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Ah, barbaro!

 

Hay un par de cosas que el tipo no muestra, que quizas esten tambien en YouTube. Una es el Gato, un ritmo Cordobes y, mas Andina, la Baguala. El Malambo (que toca el muchacho Uruguayo en el segunndo video) tambien es interesante, y todo un tour de force para la guitarra.

 

(ah, y tambien es interesante el Chamame', un ritmo del Litoral, pero es con acordeon y mas como el Vallenato Venezolano)

 

Amazing continent, Sth. America. Spain's music had so many unusual children.

[Eric Iverson]

Es bueno que conversemos en espanol, los que sabemos, pero hay mucha gente que no sabe...

 

Translation: it's good for those of us who know Spanish to converse, but there are a lot of people here who don't!

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Oh, I know... don't know why we did that.

 

But I suppose it's only fair enough that a thread on Flamenco guitars and the music they make should eventually drift into Spanish.

[Eric Iverson]

OK, Vince, fair enough!

[MILLO]

Vince: I'll check on those rhythms as well.

[michaelferris]

Well, they still exist, but they are very expensive. They tend to also be very unpractical, on account of their unique sound to play other styles of music. A lot of people who PLAY flamenco, also play classical, so they would not invest in a flamenco guitar unless they really only played that style. They are also subject to a lot of upkeep. Have you ever changed strings on a flamenco. It is horrible!!!! That is why the invention of the machine heads was such a great innovation.