Anderton Posted November 5, 2001 Share Posted November 5, 2001 Okay, I use Mac Powerbooks. But I've often thought of adding a second laptop for live use, so I could mix between them, like turntables. I'd want to get a Windows one to complement the Mac, and I'd want it to be durable, reliable, not too expensive, and common enough that I could get it serviced in Europe if needed. I'd love a Panasonic ToughBook, but the damn things are pricey. Any suggestions? PLEASE NO MAC/PC DEBATES!! I JUST WANT TO KNOW ABOUT WINDOWS LAPTOPS! Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumpelstiltskin. Posted November 5, 2001 Share Posted November 5, 2001 toshiba tecra 8100 won mobile computing's best notebook award recently. the tests factor speed, battery life, and durability. an ibm came in second. either would be great, but i think the toshiba is pretty cheap these days (relatively speaking, of course). in any case, the best you'll do is PIII/900MHz with 256MB ram, 2USB and one 1394 firewire. MOTU 828! because i like people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnorman Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 i've bought and sold many laptops over the past few years, dells, gateways, sonys, toshibas, hewlitt packards, and ibms. by far, the best made laptops are the upper end ibm's - everything else seems flimsy in comparison in terms of overall construction. of course they are all pretty similar in performance since they all tend to use pretty good components. not a single one of them comes prepared to do pro audio however, and outside of getting enough ram (at least 256mb), and sticking with intel processors (preferably above 500khz) (there are many issues with athlon and celeron processors so stay away from those), it is really the peripherals you need to worry about. the pcmcia audio cards are probably still the best way to get audio into a laptop. hdd speed is also an issue, but getting a scsi interface into a laptop to run an external drive can be expensive and a pain to configure. typically it is a good idea to at least have two hdd;s - one for your normal pc work, word-processing, internet, email, etc., and another HDD configured just for audio, with nothing on it except for the OS (98SE, 2000, or ME all work), and the audio software. jnorman sunridge studios salem, oregon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alndln Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 I wouldn't dream of using anything but the new AMD XP(PALOMINO)for any machine in the future period.The new P4 and Palomino both have lower core voltage resulting in much less heat,not to mention the superior FPU the Palomino has over everything and the sheer power.If you use Win XP you'll have fire wire support for external drives.I would find out what chipsets are used in laptops and go from there. "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 Craig, RME Audio did a recent shootout of Laptops used as DAW's that I'd highly recommend you read. The link can be found [url=http://www.rme-audio.com/english/techinfo/hdsp/notetabe.htm]here[/url] . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtrmac Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 I just want to add that we are using an RME Hammerfall DSP Cardbuss audio interface with a Digiface Breakout box and it is fantastic! I just did a classical session with it last week and although I had a DAT as backup I don\t expect I will be using the DAT tape since the session went off without any problems. Since it was a two track session I recorded in Wavelab. For a multitrack session I have Nuendo. We are using a really cheap laptop made by Sotec by the way but I don't think these are available outside Japan. It has a 1GHz PIII and we use a firewire hard drive also. I love it, it's a real portable recording studio. Now I'm editing and mastering the classical session in the same laptop and I can even burn a CD with it. Kewl! :cool: Mac Bowne G-Clef Acoustics Ltd. Osaka, Japan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFOracle Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 I work in the IT department of a large audit firm. We have close to 30,000 laptops in circulation - the majority of which are Dells. We have evaluated the functionality and road worthyness of pretty much all the major brands. We have had the best luck with Dell Latitude series laptops (not the Inspiron series which are not built as well). I have also bought Dell computers for my own personal use and can say that Dell support is very good. My wife's desktop (Optiplex GX110) came with a Sony monitor with a few bad pixels. We called Dell and 2 days later, a new monitor arrived in a box with a RMA and return UPS waybill for the defective monitor. We have had really poor results from IBM - particularly the Thinkpad 600 series which suffered from hard drive failures (incidently, IBM sourced 2 different hard drives, their own, and those from Hitachi, only the Hitachi's failed in use). Close to 4% of the hard drives failed in the first 8 weeks (infant mortality) - after that they were fine. The Thinkpads also had a number of keyboard failures (the keys around the screws in all 4 corners and the center of the keyboard failed) and motherboard failures. Our users also for the most point hated the "eraser head" mouse control and generally referred to the IBMs as "stinkpads". Due to high profile work with HP and Compaq, we have also used their Omnibook and Presario laptops in limited (several hundred) numbers and they seem to be pretty decent. We also had some Gateways Solo 9xxx laptops, which were solid enough, but were bigger and heavier than similar Dells, HPs or Compaqs. For Audio purposes, I have heard good things about the Toshibas, but have never actually touched one. The Dell Inspiron 8100 should be avoided - this series has had problems with audio dropouts when the CPU fan cycles. The Dell Latitude C810 is a better choice, and sports a IEEE-1394 interface. Don. Our country is not the only thing to which we owe our allegiance. It is also owed to justice and to humanity. Patriotism consists not in waving the flag, but in striving that our country shall be righteous as well as strong: James Bryce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFOracle Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 I work in the IT department of a large audit firm. We have close to 30,000 laptops in circulation - the majority of which are Dells. We have evaluated the functionality and road worthyness of pretty much all the major brands. We have had the best luck with Dell Latitude series laptops (not the Inspiron series which are not built as well). I have also bought Dell computers for my own personal use and can say that Dell support is very good. My wife's desktop (Optiplex GX110) came with a Sony monitor with a few bad pixels. We called Dell and 2 days later, a new monitor arrived in a box with a RMA and return UPS waybill for the defective monitor. We have had really poor results from IBM - particularly the Thinkpad 600 series which suffered from hard drive failures (incidently, IBM sourced 2 different hard drives, their own, and those from Hitachi, only the Hitachi's failed in use). Close to 4% of the hard drives failed in the first 8 weeks (infant mortality) - after that they were fine. The Thinkpads also had a number of keyboard failures (the keys around the screws in all 4 corners and the center of the keyboard failed) and motherboard failures. Our users also for the most point hated the "eraser head" mouse control and generally referred to the IBMs as "stinkpads". Due to high profile work with HP and Compaq, we have also used their Omnibook and Presario laptops in limited (several hundred) numbers and they seem to be pretty decent. We also had some Gateways Solo 9xxx laptops, which were solid enough, but were bigger and heavier than similar Dells, HPs or Compaqs. For Audio purposes, I have heard good things about the Toshibas, but have never actually touched one. The Dell Inspiron 8100 should be avoided - this series has had problems with audio dropouts when the CPU fan cycles. The Dell Latitude C810 is a better choice, and sports a IEEE-1394 interface. Don. Our country is not the only thing to which we owe our allegiance. It is also owed to justice and to humanity. Patriotism consists not in waving the flag, but in striving that our country shall be righteous as well as strong: James Bryce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whosmatt Posted November 7, 2001 Share Posted November 7, 2001 I also work in the IT dept of a large company, and we use Dell Latitudes. I am a Dell certified repair tech, and i can say that the dells are by and large very simply made (a good thing) and while mostly without the 'frills' other laptops offer, they just work. the most common problem we have is with the keyboards, and most of those problems are caused by loose screws (which interrupt the continuity). they may not look attractive compared to some, but i can vouch for them. and dell's support is second to none. matt [quote]Originally posted by SFOracle: [b]I work in the IT department of a large audit firm. We have close to 30,000 laptops in circulation - the majority of which are Dells. We have evaluated the functionality and road worthyness of pretty much all the major brands. We have had the best luck with Dell Latitude series laptops (not the Inspiron series which are not built as well). I have also bought Dell computers for my own personal use and can say that Dell support is very good. My wife's desktop (Optiplex GX110) came with a Sony monitor with a few bad pixels. We called Dell and 2 days later, a new monitor arrived in a box with a RMA and return UPS waybill for the defective monitor. We have had really poor results from IBM - particularly the Thinkpad 600 series which suffered from hard drive failures (incidently, IBM sourced 2 different hard drives, their own, and those from Hitachi, only the Hitachi's failed in use). Close to 4% of the hard drives failed in the first 8 weeks (infant mortality) - after that they were fine. The Thinkpads also had a number of keyboard failures (the keys around the screws in all 4 corners and the center of the keyboard failed) and motherboard failures. Our users also for the most point hated the "eraser head" mouse control and generally referred to the IBMs as "stinkpads". Due to high profile work with HP and Compaq, we have also used their Omnibook and Presario laptops in limited (several hundred) numbers and they seem to be pretty decent. We also had some Gateways Solo 9xxx laptops, which were solid enough, but were bigger and heavier than similar Dells, HPs or Compaqs. For Audio purposes, I have heard good things about the Toshibas, but have never actually touched one. The Dell Inspiron 8100 should be avoided - this series has had problems with audio dropouts when the CPU fan cycles. The Dell Latitude C810 is a better choice, and sports a IEEE-1394 interface. Don.[/b][/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtrmac Posted November 7, 2001 Share Posted November 7, 2001 If you use a Dell you must look into the "Fan switch bug" that some Dells had. I caused an interruption in the audio processing which made some of them unusable. I know this problem has been solved but it is a good idea to make sure the Dell you purchase doesn't have this problem. There is information about this on the RME website at [url=http://www.rme-audio.com]www.rme-audio.com[/url] On thing I don't like about Dells is the way the BIOS is locked with that Dell BIOS program. I know this is true of the desktops anyway. I need to access the BIOS so I can configure the computer the way i need to for DAW work and Dell does not permit this without a special sefrvice code or keystroke during bootup. Doesn't work for me. Mac Bowne G-Clef Acoustics Ltd. Osaka, Japan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Posted November 7, 2001 Share Posted November 7, 2001 [quote]Originally posted by gtrmac@hotmail.com: [b]On thing I don't like about Dells is the way the BIOS is locked with that Dell BIOS program. I know this is true of the desktops anyway. I need to access the BIOS so I can configure the computer the way i need to for DAW work and Dell does not permit this without a special sefrvice code or keystroke during bootup.[/b][/quote] I've owned several Dell's and my company uses them exclusively as well. All of the them I have used have let me modify the BIOS parameters without any problems, so I'm not sure where you heard this. It's hard to go wrong with a Dell for either desktop or notebook uses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnorman Posted November 7, 2001 Share Posted November 7, 2001 i am amazed to hear those comments. i liaison all laptop purcahses and repairs for an office of about 75 people. we have been through maybe 150 ibms, 25 toshibas, several HPs, and are now using dell latitudes. in terms of rugged construction, the ibm is by far the favorite of my staff. the ibm is the only ine that has a keyboard that they like. the dells feel like toys in comparison. in terms of repair, ibm has been totally flawless - instant access to tech support, and overnight fed-ex shipping 2-day turnaround - we can send an ibm off for repair on mnday and have it back by friday. i have never had an ibm HDD fail, though we've been through a few batteries on the 600. jmho...and ymmv. jnorman sunridge studios salem, oregon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nawledge Posted November 7, 2001 Share Posted November 7, 2001 Has anybody tried the Sr series Sony Vaios, the ones that are under 4 pounds, actually i think they are under 3 pounds, anyway are they good for use with reason,acid, and sonar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxTick Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 i had a Sony VAIO, what a piece of s#!t that thing was!!! it locked up all the time, i tried using ACID and Cakewalk on it and on playback, the audio would glitch or the machine would just 'blue screen' me. i got rid of it and bought a HP OmniBook 6000, so far it has been the most stable laptop yet. i have had this laptop for almost six months now and it has never locked up or 'blue screened'. i run ACID, Cakewalk 9 and FruityLoops on it with no problems whatsoever. FWIW, this post was written with it too. SactoG [ 11-07-2001: Message edited by: sactog ] 0096 2251 2110 8105 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roto Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 I want one of these! [url=http://www.fpc.fujitsu.com/www/products_notebooks.shtml?products/notebooks/p_series]http://www.fpc.fujitsu.com/www/products_notebooks.shtml?produ cts/notebooks/p_series[/url] *drool* [img]http://www.fpc.fujitsu.com/images/notebooks/gal_p_series_main.jpg[/img] [ 11-07-2001: Message edited by: Roto ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudioMaverick Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 Being in the IT field, my 2 cents... The, IBM ThinkPads (although a little pricy), various Dell Latitudes & Inspirons, and some Toshiba Tecra series work very well. The older Intel "440BX" chipsets and newer "815E" chipsets seem to runn very well for most stuff. The ATI "Rage Pro" series video chips can be an issue with timing (i.e. - sound pops and application errors). I usually turn the video accelleration down or off for those. Thinkpads are my favorite for reliability, wordlwide support. But, they can be 50% to 100% more expensive than Dells. Dells are my company's new standard. I've seen some cheap manufacturing issues. The newer Inspiron keyboards have cheap key hinges, and the keys tend to pop off the keyboard. There was an issue with the way the BIOS controlled the secondary CPU fan. Some of them would turn on and off, unnecessarily. I worked on one that the fan just wouldn't turn on... almost fried the CPU. The BIOS patch, as mentioned by "gtrmac", is a must for those late 1999 and early 2000 models. The Toshiba systems are usually pretty good. Don't see tham much around the office, any more. Seems they have a new variation on a model every 8 or 10 months. We have 2 of the Sony VAIO "slimline" model 505HZ units. Those are a nightmare! They are so cute being thin. Travelling VPs really like them for their size and weight. Then, they crash while in another country -- really. I've got one that had the main board replace twice... at 5 months and 11 months. They don't have PS-2 ports, so you have to get USB keyboard and mouse. The timing on those really stink, always stopping for some background task. As for proprietary BIOS - I think most laptops are going to be like that. I've had issues trying to get devices off of interupts on just about every model. "It's all about the... um-m-m, uh-h-h..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtrmac Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 [quote]I've owned several Dell's and my company uses them exclusively as well. All of the them I have used have let me modify the BIOS parameters without any problems, so I'm not sure where you heard this. It's hard to go wrong with a Dell for either desktop or notebook uses.[/quote] We have a Dell Precision 420 Dual CPU Workstation. It's actually a really good computer. The build quality is very high and it is a very feature rich PC. It has onboard LAN and Ultra160 SCSI. We use it to demo video editing software. It does have a proprietary Dell BIOS setup program and it does not allow access to all parameters though. Maybe not all Dell computers have this but I have read similar comments from others about this. :) Mac Bowne G-Clef Acoustics Ltd. Osaka, Japan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whosmatt Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 to respond to all the dismay about not being able to modify all the bios parameters one is used to, i think that the days of irq wars are just about past..... the new OS's are acpi compliant. look at the device manager in a windows 2000 computer and you'll find that all the pci devices are listed under a single irq. this renders the old style of plug and play pretty useless. matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nawledge Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 hey Roto i heard that fujitsu was coming out at the end of this month, have you checked out the components and found out if they were audio worthy and compatible with needs for like sonar/ reason?- its got firewire/2 usb/and digital out for 1400-1600, thats pretty good, i'm intrested myself, but i don't know if it's got the right audio / video chips etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
videoeditor1 Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 I'm also a computer pimp. (Formerly) certified on IBM, Compaq, HP, currently sell, service those in addition to Dell's. MY own computers are from DELL & Compaq servers & desktops), as well as a few that I build. My laptop is an Acer Travel Mate 601R. At the time of purchase (April 2000), it was the [b]only[/b] laptop that was available with a built in CDRW. Quite a few of the big guns were advertising, but alas, none had stock items - especially in the configuration I wanted. It has integrated NIC, modem (like they all do now :) ), but best of all, It weighs 5.1lbs, and I get [b]5 hours![/b] of full battery life. I just recently (apr 2001)replaced the battery under warranty, and I'm getting 5 hrs again. One time I was in Japan, and I had recorded a show. I was editing some stuff the next morning, and at the airport, I went on the plane and forgot to power down, but I had closed the screen. When I arrived in NY, I had 50% of the battery life available. I edited in the cab all the way to Tarrytown.... One thing to double check, is the power supply. Most mfgrs have a "universal" 100-240V 50/60Hz auto switching power supply. Some do not. NCY Drew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roto Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 [quote]Originally posted by Nawledge: [b]hey Roto i heard that fujitsu was coming out at the end of this month, have you checked out the components and found out if they were audio worthy and compatible with needs for like sonar/ reason?- its got firewire/2 usb/and digital out for 1400-1600, thats pretty good, i'm intrested myself, but i don't know if it's got the right audio / video chips etc...[/b][/quote] Sorry, I haven't looked into it seriously. I don't really need a laptop, but if I were to get one, that would be the first one I'd be considering. The built in DVD/CD-RW combo drive, small size, and comparatively low price make it tempting. But low price still means over $1500. It would just be a toy for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFOracle Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 I suspect the problems we had with IBM Thinkpad 600s were related to the volume of delivery that we needed. IBM had serious problems meeting our delivery schedule, so I suspect they probably rushed the burn in of many of the laptops. All of the failures were infant mortalities; if they made it through the first 8 weeks, they lasted for the duration of the lease (30 months). Additionally - we complained bitterly about the hard drive failures. Virtually all of the failures were with the Hitachi drives, very few if any were with the IBM drives. I suspect that IBM probably had some words with Hitachi about that. There was one other issue we encountered with the Thinkpads. The ATA connector on the hard drive was only rated for something like 10 insertions. We had some staff who regularly used multiple OS configurations (Win95, WinNT, Linux etc.) and were used to swapping hard drives on their Dells. They could always put another hard drive in the "Slim Bay" slot on the Thinkpad, but then you lose the CD-ROM because you can't use the CD-ROM on the extension cable. If you bought 200 laptops and had 8 HDs fail, you may not notice it. But when you buy 5000 laptops and have 200 fail, it is pretty obvious there is a QC problem. Our country is not the only thing to which we owe our allegiance. It is also owed to justice and to humanity. Patriotism consists not in waving the flag, but in striving that our country shall be righteous as well as strong: James Bryce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nawledge Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 ok folks, i feel like i took a crash course in quality control for your respective businesses, but what mr. Anderton and i myself need is your gracious help in getting the right laptop for serious music production. Have any of you taken a look at that fujitsu that Roto posted up, it looks pretty tasty, anybody have some insight about that one, or any other recommendations, your help is much appreciated, thankyou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtrmac Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 [quote]Originally posted by whosmatt: [b]to respond to all the dismay about not being able to modify all the bios parameters one is used to, i think that the days of irq wars are just about past..... the new OS's are acpi compliant. look at the device manager in a windows 2000 computer and you'll find that all the pci devices are listed under a single irq. this renders the old style of plug and play pretty useless. matt[/b][/quote] We disable ACPI on desktop systems running Windows 2000 so that we can set the IRQ's manually in the BIOS. We only do this with single CPU systems. Usually I build the PC's for our DAW systems by the way so I don't have any problems setting them up the way I need to. The Dell was a little problematic in this regard. Even though it is a dual CPU PC I was having some problems with audio crackling due to IRQ sharing. Mac Bowne G-Clef Acoustics Ltd. Osaka, Japan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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