clonewheel recomendation

[ferran rc]

Hello,

 

I'm not introduced in the "Hammond world", and I've never played a B3 or any other original Hammond organ, so I have no experience in this matter.

 

I'm planning to buy a clonewheel to start playing organ sounds with my band (the organ sounds of my old Korg N364 don't sound bad, but nothing compared to these actual clonewheels...).

 

I'm between these 2 models: the Hammond XK-1 and the Nord Electro 2.

Here is very difficult to find a store that has both in stock to make a side by side comparison, so I will have to test them separately.

The price is not a factor, because I can find both at a similar prive here.

 

I've read many threads in many forums, and I think these are the 2 better options for what I need.

 

By one side, I like very much the demos of the Hammond XK-1 I've heard, and I've found very good opinions and reviews in the forums. I like the real drawbars, and I've read that the leslie sim is one of the most reallistic.

I think that the XK-1 has more tweakable parameters, and I've read the manual and I've found many configurable parameters, to adjust everything you want (leslie speed, acceleration, percussion, effects...), and maybe more MIDI control

 

By the other side, I've also read very good opinions about the electro. Maybe it has less configurable parameters than the XK-1, but all the electro owners are very happy with it.

I have the EP's covered, so I wouldn't need the other sounds of the electro, but they really sound amazing...

 

Which one would you recommend me?

Has anyone made a comparison of these two clones?

 

To start I will use the internal leslie sim, connected to my Roland KC-500 amp. Maybe in the future I could upgrade the system with a real rotary speaker, like the PRO-3X.

 

I know that I have to test both and choose the one that I like more, but I wanted to know your opinions and recommendations.

 

Sorry for my english, it's not very good...

 

Thanks very much!!

Ferran

 

 

[keysplease]

Play an Electro and an XK-1. IMO, the ability to pull real drawbars and the action of the Hammond keyboard make it the clone of choice for your situation, especially since you don't need other sounds.

 

 

Hello,

 

I'm not introduced in the "Hammond world", and I've never played a B3 or any other original Hammond organ, so I have no experience in this matter.

 

I'm planning to buy a clonewheel to start playing organ sounds with my band (the organ sounds of my old Korg N364 don't sound bad, but nothing compared to these actual clonewheels...).

 

I'm between these 2 models: the Hammond XK-1 and the Nord Electro 2.

Here is very difficult to find a store that has both in stock to make a side by side comparison, so I will have to test them separately.

The price is not a factor, because I can find both at a similar prive here.

 

I've read many threads in many forums, and I think these are the 2 better options for what I need.

 

By one side, I like very much the demos of the Hammond XK-1 I've heard, and I've found very good opinions and reviews in the forums. I like the real drawbars, and I've read that the leslie sim is one of the most reallistic.

I think that the XK-1 has more tweakable parameters, and I've read the manual and I've found many configurable parameters, to adjust everything you want (leslie speed, acceleration, percussion, effects...), and maybe more MIDI control

 

By the other side, I've also read very good opinions about the electro. Maybe it has less configurable parameters than the XK-1, but all the electro owners are very happy with it.

I have the EP's covered, so I wouldn't need the other sounds of the electro, but they really sound amazing...

 

Which one would you recommend me?

Has anyone made a comparison of these two clones?

 

To start I will use the internal leslie sim, connected to my Roland KC-500 amp. Maybe in the future I could upgrade the system with a real rotary speaker, like the PRO-3X.

 

I know that I have to test both and choose the one that I like more, but I wanted to know your opinions and recommendations.

 

Sorry for my english, it's not very good...

 

Thanks very much!!

Ferran

 

[Joe Muscara]

If you don't need the other sounds, the XK-1 may be the right choice. OTOH, you can carry an Electro under one arm and survive a gig or rehearsal only carrying one board (if you like all the sounds and don't need any others, and can deal with the unweighted action for pianos).

 

I was looking at both these 'boards recently and it's a tough call. They both have their pros, and the cons are often not deal breakers for most people.

[loumi]

In all the opinions I have read, the majority of them think the Korg CX-3 has the best simulated Leslie sound. Among the same group, I have heard that some of the Hammond clones have some of the least desireable simulated Leslie sounds. Maybe you have already done this, but if you are going to use the sim and not a real rotating speaker, I would definitely check out ALL the clones you can to be sure you like what you get.

 

Lou

[NoahZark]

Ferran:

 

For what it's worth, I was in the same situation as you about 8 months ago, struggling to decide between the XK-1 and the Electro. At the end of the day, I went with the XK-1 because (i) my need was organ only (since I can cover Rhodes, Wurli, etc. with my S90ES), (ii) I really wanted authentic drawbars, and (iii) I preferred the XK-1 keybed over that of the Electro. Either way, though, you can't go wrong. Seriously, they are both incredible boards, each with their own strengths and weaknesses, and either will suit your needs extraordinarily well.

 

Noah

 

P.S. Lou: I think you underrate the Leslie sim on the XK-1. For another opinion, check out the Keyboard Mag review from several months back. That said, your advice to check out all the clonewheels is definitely sound.

[wmp]

I'm not familiar with the XK-1. I have an XK-3 and occasionally play somebody else's Electro. They both sound great, but I prefer the Hammond because of the real drawbars. All the controls are where a Hammond guy would expect to find them. They both feel great, but I'll never get used to the button "drawbars" on the Electro.

[MikeT156]

I've listened to the demo's of Hammond's website, as well as demos of the Nord Electro. My personal preference is for the Hammond (XK-1 or XK-3) I owned several Hammonds in the old days, and a number of transistor organs. Also owned the original Korg CX-3. In the XK-1 review in Keyboard, Stephan said something to the effect that the Hammond sounded like playing a real Hammond, whereas the Electro sounded like what you hear when you listen to a song where the organ has already been processed, or something like that. In other words, you can hear the pure organ tones on the Hammond. Most players have preferred the Electro and the new Korg CX-3 Leslie SIMM over Hammond's, but the XK-1 has an improved Leslie SIMM over its big brother, the XK-3. I would guess that the new XK-3c has the newer Leslie SIMM incorporated into it.

 

As others have mentioned, having an all in one KB like the Electro is good for rehearsals, and you can't beat it for being light and portable. But for me, I like the idea of more pure Hammond tones, and drawbars. I don't need the other sounds the Electro offers, so if I were to get a clone, it would be the XK-1. Great sound, light, and low price. Not as flexible as the XK-3c, but if you're not really an organ player anyway, what you get out of the XK-1 would be more than enough to make you happy.

 

Mike T.

[retrokeys]

I suppose I have sort of finessed the issue by having both the Nord 61 and the Hammond XK3. I am an old unreconstructed Hammond player and so drawbars and presets located where they are supposed to be is important to me. That being said, the Nord is an excellent organ emulator although I use it for its other voices on the job. I don't take my XK to practice I just use the Nord and a KC 500 amp and it works great. If it were my decision, I'd base it on weight and adapatability. I know you've said you have the EPs covered but the Nord does a nice job here and it weighs next to nothing. The Hammonds (including the XK1) have wooden cabinets that add weight. Also I haven't heard from anyone that much cared for the XK1's other non organ voices. As far as leslie emulations go. the Nord is good as is the Hammond but no emulator will give you the sound of moving some air. Consider adding a Motion Sound to you eventual rig. On top of the KC it ought to sound great. Good luck

[ferran rc]

Thanks very much for your opinions!

 

This week I will try to play both (in 2 different stores).

I'll pay attention at the keybed feeling, the leslie sim, the sound...

 

It seems that the question is: a little more reallistic sound of the XK-1 Vs. portability and flexibility of the Electro (all in one keyboard).

Well, I'll play both (if the stores are not on holiday), and will post my impressions.

 

Thanks!

 

Ferran

[Jim Alfredson]

Does the XK1 have the same ability to customize the tonewheels as the XK3 does? If so, that's a big boon, imo. You could basically make it sound like a completely different organ, since all tonewheel organs sound different.

[mate stubb]

Thanks very much for your opinions!

 

This week I will try to play both (in 2 different stores).

I'll pay attention at the keybed feeling, the leslie sim, the sound...

 

 

Be sure you try them in stereo. It makes a huge difference with the leslie sims.

[ferran rc]

Thanks very much for your opinions!

 

This week I will try to play both (in 2 different stores).

I'll pay attention at the keybed feeling, the leslie sim, the sound...

 

 

 

Be sure you try them in stereo. It makes a huge difference with the leslie sims.

 

OK, I'll try!

[ferran rc]

Does the XK1 have the same ability to customize the tonewheels as the XK3 does? If so, that's a big boon, imo. You could basically make it sound like a completely different organ, since all tonewheel organs sound different.

 

The XK-1 doesn't have the ability to customize the tonewheels.

 

I've compared the XK-1 and XK-3 user manuals, and this is maybe the only difference I've found (appart from the external differences).

I think all the other customizable parameters of the XK-3 can also be modified in the XK-1.

[Joe Muscara]

There are other differences in the XK-1 and XK-3 I'm sure others can elaborate better, but for one, the 3 uses real tubes for the overdrive, so that generally sounds better.

[JMcS]

The C/V is more adjustable. IIRC, key click and percussion may be as well. There is a fourth set of B Type tonewheels. I have an XM-2 (which is closer to the XK-1 than to the XK-3) and an XK-3. The tone of matching drawbar sets without any effects ie: C/V, digital Leslie or reverb, sound very similar if not identical. The tone of the XM-2 with any of those effects added sounds more full than the XK-3. The overdrive is pretty simular (or at least "tubey") if turned up no more than say 11:00 on the dial. After that it begins to take on the "Marshall Stack" tone. Actually, having the XK-3 trigger both the XK-3 and the XM-2 with overdrive turned up on both is sweet. I think the XK-3c is going to be a very nice improvement over an already fantastic organ.

[NoahZark]

Does the XK1 have the same ability to customize the tonewheels as the XK3 does? If so, that's a big boon, imo. You could basically make it sound like a completely different organ, since all tonewheel organs sound different.

 

The XK-1 doesn't have the ability to customize the tonewheels.

 

Ferran: This isn't right. Take a look at page 64 of the XK-1 user manual. There are different tonewheel sets within the XK-1 (B-Type, Mellow, and Brite), and then different parameters within certain of those sets -- e.g., within "B-Type," there are "Real B-3," "Noisy," "80s Clean" (less leakage), and "Noisy 60" (louder leakage).

 

Noah

[JMcS]

Does the XK1 have the same ability to customize the tonewheels as the XK3 does? If so, that's a big boon, imo. You could basically make it sound like a completely different organ, since all tonewheel organs sound different.

 

The XK-1 doesn't have the ability to customize the tonewheels.

 

Ferran: This isn't right. Take a look at page 64 of the XK-1 user manual. There are different tonewheel sets within the XK-1 (B-Type, Mellow, and Brite), and then different parameters within certain of those sets -- e.g., within "B-Type," there are "Real B-3," "Noisy," "80s Clean" (less leakage), and "Noisy 60" (louder leakage).

 

Noah

 

While you can select from a variety of tonewheel sets and this allows you to customize the sound of a given XK-1, you can't "Roll Your Own" like you can with the XK-3. From the selection of tonewheel sets in the XK-1 you can pick the one that most closely matches your own tonewheel Hammond in general.

With the XK-3, you can dial in pretty close to an exact match of every tonewheel in your own tonewheel Hammond - even the ones that don't sound quite right anymore.

[ferran rc]

There are other differences in the XK-1 and XK-3 I'm sure others can elaborate better, but for one, the 3 uses real tubes for the overdrive, so that generally sounds better.

 

Yes,

 

A question about this:

Could a Speakeasy preamp be an improvement in the sound of the XK-1?

I've read that the Speakeasy preamp works better when it's connected to a real rotary speaker, but would it improve the sound of the XK-1 using the internal leslie sim?

[jimmymio]

I was recently in the same position and I chose the Electro2. I went with the flexibility and portability. Very happy with my pick but as everyone else has said, they are both great and your decision will come down to how much you value their individual strengths.

All in all its great to have choices.

JP

[jook]

P.S. Lou: I think you underrate the Leslie sim on the XK-1. For another opinion, check out the Keyboard Mag review from several months back. That said, your advice to check out all the clonewheels is definitely sound.

 

I've played with the XK-1's leslie sim, and I personally prefer the CX-3's. Mind you, I had more time to tweak the CX-3's sim (based on settings given on the Clonewheel list) and it might be possible to tweak the XK-1's leslie sim to taste as well; but I did find it's default settings lacking, and feeling more like a wobble than any sense of spinning (excuse my technical terminology).

[Dave Pierce]

I think there's one factor you should consider that hasn't been discussed -- clavinets. If you like a good clavinet sound, or have any interest in playing clav style, that's a very strong argument for the Electro. It's got a great clav, and very few 'boards do clavinet well.

 

Of course, I'm biased since I own an Electro (and gig on it very regularly).

 

--Dave

 

[MikeT156]

As far as Leslie SIMM's, I'd say that "most" manufacturers don't crank the effect up very much, which is good. I don't know about the "wobble" Leslie effect that jook just mentioned, I haven't heard the XK-1 in person. I've only heard the demos on Hammond's web site.

 

I would guess that you could crank up the level of the effect and adjust the speed more to your liking. But not matter what, moving air still sounds best. Maybe we expect too much.

 

Mike T.