Amp simulators

[ferran rc]

Hello,

 

Do you use amp simulators or tube preamps for your rhodes and wurtlizer sounds?

Which one could I use to get that "vintage" sound?

 

Some of the amp simulators and multieffects I've found are specific for guitar, so they only have a mono input. I would like to find a multieffects processor, or something similar, with a stereo input, and some effects and amp simulators, to use with vintage sounds. (ep's, wurlies...)

I like the Boss VF-1, but are there other options?

 

Opinions and suggestions are welcome!

 

Thanks,

 

Ferran

[linwood]

...but a rhodes and wurli are mono. what you want is mono in...stereo out. right?

[ferran rc]

Yes, but I use the rhodes and wurtlizer sounds of my digital piano. I only want to use these effects/amp simulators with the ep's, but not with the acoustic piano sounds.

I suppose I would have to disable/bypass the multieffects if I play the acoustic piano sounds, that sound much better in stereo, and apply the effects only in the ep sounds.

 

So I need a stereo input signal for the acoustic pianos.

 

(I don't know if I have explained it good, my english is not very good...)

[linwood]

Yes, now I understand what you are trying to do. I thought you were talking real rhodes/wurli. What keyboard are you talking about? How many outs?

[ferran rc]

I will recieve a GEM RP-X module in the next days.

I still don't have a controller for it, I will wait until I recieve it, because I want to try different controllers to see the connection between the keybed and the module. Then I'll decide and get the controller.

[linwood]

I'm not familiar with it, but on mutitimbral mods, you can strip off the effects of the patch and send it to it's own mono out. Maybe someone here has the gem mod and will chime in for you.

[ferran rc]

Ok, thanks very much!

 

Which amp simulator/multieffects do you think would be a good option?

[linwood]

I played a rhodes for years and owned maybe a dozen and still have a really nice one and a wurli. The only thing I've ever used on rhodes is chorus,phase shifter, delay,wah wah, and stereo tremolo. I always ran it stereo, with something like a crown dc300 and a couple cabinets with a 15 and a horn, but for a while there I was using a couple 3 way cabs with 18's, horns, and tweeters. Sounded fat. Now days, if I were using a digi board and wanted rhodes/wurli....I'd go with the new motif, I don't think personally I'd need any more efx for it, but I'd still use big power amp, nice stereo mixer, and some nice cabs.

[Kayvon]

I can remember reading on this forum someone rated the Vox Tonelab with special presets loaded for keyboards. Apparently it was a special edition for Germany or something and they released the presets/OS as a software download. Might be worth doing a search for. I have absolutely no experience with unit myself though.

[linwood]

I've got a vox tonelab and a roland gt6 and have used them with my rhodes. They both sound great.

[DaveMcM]

A friend loaned me a Damage Control Womanizer and it does a great job of warming up the tone and adding a little (or a lot) of overdrive to the sound. It has two 12AX7's, a single band parametric EQ on the incoming signal and bass and treble controls on the outgoing signal. There is also an opto-compressor. amp simulator output as well as a direct output. And it is built like a tank. The controls are very solid and smooth.

http://www.sweetwater.com/images/items/215/Womanizer.jpg

I have used it on my XK3 as well as the RP-X and Promega 3 and I really like it.

 

Best Regards,

 

Dave

[mate stubb]

Fortunately for me, it's all built into my Nord Stage!

[ferran rc]

I have used it on my XK3 as well as the RP-X and Promega 3 and I really like it.

 

Best Regards,

 

Dave

 

Hello Dave,

 

The Damage control Womanizer really looks very nice. I've seen that it has mono input and mono output, How do you connect it to your RP-X / Promega 3 to have the stereo acoustic pianos sounds?

 

My problem is that I will use both the acoustic pianos and the EP's from the RP-X.

The acoustic pianos sound much better in stereo, so how have I to connect it?

The RP-X has only 2 outputs.

It's the same problem I find with the Vox Tonelab, that has only a mono input.

 

Thanks!

 

Ferran

[Billdar]

Ferran,

 

My guess is that this effects box works best with the EP and clav sounds on the RPX. Consider that the original vintage Rhodes and Wurlies were mono instruments, most often run through tube driven guitar amps back in the day. The "right" stereo out on the RPX, used without anything plugged into the left stereo out, gives a mono output.

 

Cheers!

Bill

 

 

 

[Billdar]

And I'm laughing at myself because in late '70's I owned a Rhodes Suitcase and a Fender Twin amp, and at that time, wished the sound was "cleaner"!

 

Now I want to buy one of those "Womanizers" to dirty it up!

 

[DaveMcM]

Hello Dave,

 

The Damage control Womanizer really looks very nice. I've seen that it has mono input and mono output, How do you connect it to your RP-X / Promega 3 to have the stereo acoustic pianos sounds?

 

My problem is that I will use both the acoustic pianos and the EP's from the RP-X.

The acoustic pianos sound much better in stereo, so how have I to connect it?

The RP-X has only 2 outputs.

It's the same problem I find with the Vox Tonelab, that has only a mono input.

 

Thanks!

 

Ferran

 

Hi Ferran,

 

I have tried the whole stereo thing live with several different amp/speaker configurations and decided that the hassle of carrying around all that extra stuff WAY outweighed the advantages especially since no one in the audience was hearing the stereo spread nearly as well as I was, if at all. So I decided to run mono which allows me to hear exactly what the audience hears.

 

And along the same lines of trying to avoid carrying extra equipment, I used the Womanizer on two gigs and decided that while it did add something on certain tunes, the something it added was not that big of a deal to me so it is now back in the hands of its owner. Besides by tweaking the internal compressor and filter, my instrument gets plenty funky on its own. But if you are really into the tube preamp idea, I think this is a good one. There is nothing like real tubes to add some warm overdrive to your sound! For stereo; buy two.

 

 

Best Regards,

 

Dave

[ferran rc]

Ferran,

 

My guess is that this effects box works best with the EP and clav sounds on the RPX. Consider that the original vintage Rhodes and Wurlies were mono instruments, most often run through tube driven guitar amps back in the day. The "right" stereo out on the RPX, used without anything plugged into the left stereo out, gives a mono output.

 

Cheers!

Bill

 

 

 

 

Hi Bill,

 

Yes, I know that the original EPs were mono instruments, and I know that I can use a mono output on the RP-X.

 

My "problem" is that I will use both the acoustic and the electric piano sounds of the RP-X. When I select the acoustic pianos, I will have to bypass the multieffects, because I don't want any additional effect in the acoustic piano sounds.

In this situation acoustic piano sounds) is when I need a stereo signal to the main mixer

When I select a rhodes or a wurlie sound, I will "activate" the multieffects.

What I need is this:

 

FOR THE ACOUSTIC PIANOS:

RP-X stereo Out ------> stereo in multieffects in bypass mode ----->multieffects stereo out to the main mixer.

Here I need a stereo signal from the RP-X to the mixer, because the accoustic pianos sound much better in stereo. With the accoustics I don't need any effects or amp simulator, but the RP-X only have 2 outputs, so I can only use the same outputs as for the EPs

 

FOR THE EP's:

RP-X stereo or mono Out ------> stereo or mono in multieffects (amp simulator) -----> multieffects stereo out to the main mixer.

 

So I need these configurations at the same time, to select a stereo acoustic piano Without effects, or a mono/stereo EP with the effects.

 

If I had two different keyboard/modules, one for the acoustic piano sounds, the other for the EPs, I wouldn't have any problem to run the EPs in mono, but I need the acoustic pianos (without effects) in stereo

 

I don't know if I have explainet it well in english.

 

Ferran

[ferran rc]

 

There is nothing like real tubes to add some warm overdrive to your sound! For stereo; buy two.

 

 

Best Regards,

 

Dave

 

Yes, that's a good idea!!!

But I will have to save some extra money...

[Billdar]

I like stereo acoustic pianos too, Ferran. But instead of spending $600 for two Womanizers, I think I'll put in some editing time on the RPX!

 

Bill

 

 

[ferran rc]

I like stereo acoustic pianos too, Ferran. But instead of spending $600 for two Womanizers, I think I'll put in some editing time on the RPX!

 

Bill

 

 

[DaveMcM]

Since the Rhodes, Wurlitzer and Clavinet sounds are mono (the only thing to do with stereo would come from the effects, i.e. tremolo, chorus, stereo delay, etc.) you could use two foot switchable A/B boxes and let one of the outputs from one A/B box feed the tube pre-amp and the output of the other A/B box feed the air (not connected to anything ).

http://www.sweetwater.com/images/items/215/ABSwitchbox.jpg

Look HERE for a number of choices.

 

Best Regards,

 

Dave

 

Added for clarity:

Left output of RP-X to the input of the first A/B box, right output of RP-X to the input of the second A/B box. Outputs A of each box to your mixer for stereo operation just like you normally connect things. Then for the tube pre-amp, output B of either A/B box to the input of the mono tube pre-amp and the output B of the other A/B box doesn't get connected to anything. The tube pre-amp output goes to another channel of the mixer with center panning for mono operation.

 

When you want stereo piano, switch both A/B boxes to output A. When you want the tube pre-amp, switch both A/B boxes to output B.

 

Problem solved.

[Moonglow]

.....The acoustic pianos sound much better in stereo.....

Agreed. However, the RP-X has the best mono sum I have heard for a digital piano. I would give it a whirl before doing anything. Seems like the A/B boxes (Quite ingenious, Dave!) represent a lot of hassle for marginal practical gain. Will your FOH/PA be run in stereo?

[DaveMcM]

Agreed. However, the RP-X has the best mono sum I have heard for a digital piano. I would give it a whirl before doing anything. Seems like the A/B boxes (Quite ingenious, Dave!) represent a lot of hassle for marginal practical gain. Will your FOH/PA be run in stereo?

 

Yeah, if someone made a stereo in/out A/B box (and maybe someone does) that would be a bit less hassle. But still the additional tonality wasn't worth it to me to have to bother with connecting even one more audio cable and power adapter since our FOH is usually mono and I wouldn't have to deal with the stereo issue.

 

Best Regards,

 

Dave

[ferran rc]

Added for clarity:

Left output of RP-X to the input of the first A/B box, right output of RP-X to the input of the second A/B box. Outputs A of each box to your mixer for stereo operation just like you normally connect things. Then for the tube pre-amp, output B of either A/B box to the input of the mono tube pre-amp and the output B of the other A/B box doesn't get connected to anything. The tube pre-amp output goes to another channel of the mixer with center panning for mono operation.

 

When you want stereo piano, switch both A/B boxes to output A. When you want the tube pre-amp, switch both A/B boxes to output B.

 

Problem solved.

 

Hey!Problem solved!

 

Thanks for the detailed explanation!

 

I think first of all I will work on the RP-X editor, I think I will find the sound I'm looking for, the Drake rhodes have lots of dynamics, and with a little amount of compressor they have that little overdrive that sounds really good to me.

 

The solution of the A/B boxes + the Womanizer is a good idea, but maybe a little complicated, because if I want to change from piano to rhodes in the same song, I have to change the sound, press the two A/B boxes, ...

 

I think that the RP-X rhodes sounds + some work on the editor will be enough for me, or maybe use the mono piano sounds of the RP-X, this would be another option, with less connections and boxes...

 

Thanks for all the answers and explanations!

 

Best Regards,

Ferran

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ferran rc]

.....The acoustic pianos sound much better in stereo.....

Agreed. However, the RP-X has the best mono sum I have heard for a digital piano. I would give it a whirl before doing anything. Seems like the A/B boxes (Quite ingenious, Dave!) represent a lot of hassle for marginal practical gain. Will your FOH/PA be run in stereo?

 

Agreed. First of all I will work on the editor, and try with the mono piano sounds.

 

Thanks!

Ferran

[DaveMcM]

Hey!Problem solved!

 

Thanks for the detailed explanation!...

 

The solution of the A/B boxes + the Womanizer is a good idea, but maybe a little complicated, because if I want to change from piano to rhodes in the same song, I have to change the sound, press the two A/B boxes, ...

 

Thanks for all the answers and explanations!

 

Best Regards,

Ferran

 

Well there is always the option of using a MIDI controllable digital mixer. Then you could just run the stereo outputs directly to the mixer and let program changes select the Rhodes sound and also kick in the insert on the mixer channel that is connected to your tube pre-amp and pan that channel to center while it mutes the other channel.

 

There is always a way.

 

Best Regards,

 

Dave

[niacin]

I have a Line 6 MM4 which has a nice dual phaser and a good panned tremolo. It's the only pedal I have that is stereo in and stereo out (even Moog's stomp boxes are mono in). The other Line 6 boxes in the series (DD4 etc) are also stereo all the way.

[andi.k]

Truly a real tubed preamp would be most authentic, but for it's simplicity I am very satisfied with my BOSS VF-1 solution. My Promega is set up to switch FX presets via Midi: https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=18&Number=1753263&Searchpage=1&Main=128333&Words=&topic=0&Search=true#Post1753263

 

This way I even do not need the axillary outputs, I simply connect the main out to the MultiFX unit and the switch between Rhodes and Acoustic Piano is done with a single button press.

 

Ferran - which master keyboard do you have? Maybe you could achive the same by connecting both your RP-X and a multifx unit via Midi.

[ferran rc]

Truly a real tubed preamp would be most authentic, but for it's simplicity I am very satisfied with my BOSS VF-1 solution. My Promega is set up to switch FX presets via Midi: https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=18&Number=1753263&Searchpage=1&Main=128333&Words=&topic=0&Search=true#Post1753263

 

This way I even do not need the axillary outputs, I simply connect the main out to the MultiFX unit and the switch between Rhodes and Acoustic Piano is done with a single button press.

 

Ferran - which master keyboard do you have? Maybe you could achive the same by connecting both your RP-X and a multifx unit via Midi.

 

Hi Andi,

 

Yes, I know you have the Boss VF-1, I listened to the MP3 files of the rhodes and wurtlizer sounds with the amp simulator, and I like how the rhodes sound through the VF-1 very much.

This is another option I'm considering. But before buying anything, I wanted to know if there are another options, with real tubes.

I agree with you that the VF-1 is a good option, and I would'nt need any auxilliar outputs.

I thought there were stereo tube preamps or amp simulators, but I think there aren't. Most of them are special for guitar, so they have only mono inputs...

 

So the VF-1 is probably the first option now...And I like it because there are also many other effects that I could use.

 

About the master keyboard, I haven't decided yet.

I will wait until I recieve the RP-X, because I want to test some with the RP-X, to see the connection between the keybed and the sound. As you know, the Drake pianos have a big range of dynamics, and I want to play some controllers to see which is more comfortable with the RP-X.

 

which master keyboard do you have? Maybe you could achive the same by connecting both your RP-X and a multifx unit via Midi.

 

How could I do this? Would I need two Midi Outs?

 

Thanks!!

Ferran

[andi.k]

which master keyboard do you have? Maybe you could achive the same by connecting both your RP-X and a multifx unit via Midi.

 

How could I do this? Would I need two Midi Outs?

Nope, this is achieved via Midi-Thru:

 

Controller Midi out -> RP-X Midi in

RP-X Midi Thru -> MultiFX Midi in

 

Now, set RP-X to receive Midi message on - say - channel 1 and the MultiFX on channel 2. Now, the RP-X will redirect all channel 2 messages to the Midi-Thru-Port. (Provided that the RP-X does not have any other part set to channel 2, AFAIK it can have up to 4 parts, each with its own midi channel)

 

Finally, on the controller, create presets that will send patch changes on both channels (maybe you have to utilize the split or layer function to make it do that).