Why do some songs haunt us?

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

I've gotten into the habit of listening to my MP3 player as I go to sleep.

 

At first I wondered if the albums I listen to while sleeping would have any influence on my song-writing. It's not such a crazy idea: some years ago, there was some scientific interest in the concept of sleep-learning. The idea was that the subject would hear lessons in whatever while they slept and would (hopefully) remember the material when they awoke. I believe it had mixed results but that's all I know about it.

 

AAAAAANYWAY... the thing that puzzles me is that a) there is no discernible difference in my songwriting and b) I don't necessarily find myself humming any of the stuff I listen to while I sleep, which in theory should be embedded in my subconscious. Admittedly, I tend to listen to albums I know inside out because music I'm not very familiar with tends to interest me far too much and keeps me awake. Perhaps I don't retain music because I've already retained as much as I'm going to with those familiar albums.

 

But tonight I found myself hearing some almost forgotten music, which after about an hour I realized was out of an Emmilou Harris album called Wrecking Ball, which I haven't played in donkey's years. And I remember lots of moments where I hear a couple of bars of some song extremely vividly even though I can't place the song or the artist. Oddly, the bits I remember don't make any logical sense: I don't remember an intro, or some particularly noticeable element of the song. Just random bars. And it's not that I find myself doing something similar to whatever I was doing when I first heard the remembered song.

 

Why IS that..? Why do some songs come back to us after years, whereas pop songs we hear several times a day make no impression? And why is it that sometimes we know we would recognize a given piece of music even though we can't explain or remember how it sounds?

 

Any ideas..?

[picker]

Because we're being punished?

[Eric Iverson]

Well, a lot of how we human beings operate is subliminal... not necessarily in some spooky sense, but it's stuff we remember in the back of our minds or emotionally, that we don't ordinarily consciously think about.

 

I think your experience, Vince, is pretty much normal. We remember bits and pieces of things, for no apparent reason.

 

But if we sit down and play the old song, a lot of times we start to remember the missing parts. If not, you can always buy the record or get the sheet music. Or look up the artist on the Net, if it's important.

[fantasticsound]

I'm with Eric. I believe many things that stick out in our memories are hidden barely under the surface, awaiting a trigger such as a smell, taste or sound that our brains associate with that memory. Some are related to the memory they reveal, others just happen to have been present when the engram was burned into our memories.

 

I have little to back up these ideas other than knowing there are studies that show our sense of smell is most sensitive of our senses in triggering old, forgotten memories.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Everytime I smell pot I hear "All Right Now"..LOL!! It took along time to get over the experience of playing "All Right Now" and NOT smelling pot!!

[Megiliel]

Ha ha, haunted... I know how that feels. My dreams have freakin' playlists. Not even kidding. And I've had the same song stuck in my head for two weeks before. It's my own darn fault, but it's still annoying.

[Eric Iverson]

And then people associate certain songs with their first boyfriend or girlfriend, or when they were first starting to learn guitar (I still love "She's Not There" by the Zombies and a handful of Beatles tunes that a good friend taught when I was 16 and very wet behind the ears!)

 

We're not exactly Pavlov's dogs (at least HOPEFULLY not!) but music can create powerful triggers in people, for good or ill. I hope no one here abuses that power, but of course that's subjective, too...

 

For example, the Scots and Irish used to use bagpipe music to get people excited to go into battle and kill, kill, kill! Probably nowadays they would kill the bagpiper instead!

[mdrs]

And then people associate certain songs with their first boyfriend or girlfriend, or when they were first starting to learn guitar (I still love "She's Not There" by the Zombies and a handful of Beatles tunes that a good friend taught when I was 16 and very wet behind the ears!)

 

We're not exactly Pavlov's dogs (at least HOPEFULLY not!) but music can create powerful triggers in people, for good or ill. I hope no one here abuses that power, but of course that's subjective, too...

 

For example, the Scots and Irish used to use bagpipe music to get people excited to go into battle and kill, kill, kill! Probably nowadays they would kill the bagpiper instead!

 

Well, bagpipe music and LOTS OF ALCHOL.....in ancient times, there was a time when Irish warriors were widely feared....They'd get naked and liquored up, and work themselves up into a frenzy, then go into battle. Wild Irishmen!!!

 

We actually ARE PAVLOV'S DOGS IN DENIAL!! LOL We don't want to admit it, but we are. We should have more control of ourselves than your basic dog. But, look around....all to often, we don't!!!

 

Neil is right....there is a very close connection between our rather rudimentary olfactory lobe (brain smell center), and the brain's "association" area, where various memories are connected to different associated events....smells, individuals, songs, etc.. If your first girl friend's perfume is a common one, you'll likely be thinking about her often!!

 

 

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

I'm with Eric. I believe many things that stick out in our memories are hidden barely under the surface, awaiting a trigger such as a smell, taste or sound that our brains associate with that memory. Some are related to the memory they reveal, others just happen to have been present when the engram was burned into our memories.

 

Well, ok... a case in point. I first heard the Velvet Underground doing "Candy Says" when I was ironing a shirt one morning. And a bit of the vocals came back to me about three years later when I was waiting for a subway train.

 

I had never listened to the VU since, I didn't have a clue what the song was, and it took me about four days to put a name to it because I couldn't make out what the voice was singing either.

 

I wonder whether it'd be possible to write such "sleeper" songs on purpose, songs which sink into your subconscious. I'm sure there's some groundwork already laid down for VISUALS (Jung and all the advertising mob) but perhaps there's nothing similar for sound?

[alittlebatty]

I agree with Eric & Neil-and a recent TV program I was watching mentioned that studies have shown that some of our most vivid memories are vivid because adrenaline was pumping thru our systems when we experienced the moment-which is why we probably remember our first rock concert,date,etc so well.

[Bejeeber]

Then there's a science film I saw once where during a split brain operation, the surgeon was experimenting with direct electrical stimulation of various parts of the brain and getting the concious patient's response.

 

One area, when stimulated, would cause the patient to hear vivid music.

 

So when an old tune pops into your noggin maybe it's just from some static electricity that happened to discharge in that part of your brain.

[LPCustom]

I guess it's partly due to how our brains work. We use associative memory so when we experience something we file away the circumstances for it (what we smell, see, hear, etc.). Then when we smell, see or hear something it can trigger the memory of that happening. Or if that happens again, it triggers the song again. Or the smell or a visual memory.

 

I think that's why sometimes we get songs "stuck" in our heads. We are in a situation that our brain thinks we've had before that it has a strong correlation with that song. So it stays at the surface.

 

Of course, that could all be just BS. I'm no neurologist.

 

But I have had memories triggered by songs, smells or pictures of people or places. Some can be quite powerful.

 

When I hear "All Right Now" I think of the first girl I ever dated. The first time I kissed her that song was playing on the car radio. But then I remember her breaking up with me and "Dream Weaver" starts playing (the song that was playing driving home from her house after she dumped me) and my mood changes to that. (anger, disbelief, sadness, surprise)

 

Funny thing memory.

 

All day today, "Sweet 'Lil Sister" (Bad Company) has been playing in my head. I have _no_ idea why. I'm going to have run my iTunes to try to wash that away.

 

 

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

When I hear "All Right Now" I think of the first girl I ever dated. The first time I kissed her that song was playing on the car radio.

 

Yeah, that I can understand, and have experienced it quite often. But I still can't understand why incoherent bits of songs pop up for no apparent reason. The whole trigger thing would make a lot more sense if we remembered some relevant bit out of a song... a powerful line in the lyrics, or some lead break. But not a couple of random bars.

 

Oh well, maybe the bottom line is that, as a civilization, we don't understand the brain as much as we think we do.

[Gifthorse]

I am big into the whole duality paradox of everything.

 

Like when you see someone who is mentally disabled, who is happier you or them. How do you measure intelligence on a happiness scale. But happiness is the goal for most.

 

When I listen to music, usually the stuff I like is stuff I can relate too. The artist is telling a musical story. I think music is a direct form of communicating emotion. I am not talking lyrics necessarily. But you can tell a story from a guitar solo for instance. It can be a cool one or a boring one. Like you could go to the bar and listen to some guy tell a story and it would stink.

 

Then your like, "well I bet that guy probably couldn't play a cool solo cuz his stories suck!" Heh

 

But that goes in the tangent of what Kramer Ferrington said.

 

I was sleeping with the click on for a while. I would wake up in the middle of the night to piss and be like, "wow, that kind of sux" and turn it off. But I think I might get back into it again. LOL, like thats something to get into.

 

But I am all over the idea of stuff effecting other stuff in the whole. Like to me the concept of sleeping with the click isn't just to improve my guitar playing. But whatever, I don't want to get all eggish about it.