Hi all, need help with a Boss RC-20 Loop Station

[Bass-a-roni]

I picked up a used Boss RC20 Loopstation, pretty cool stuff. Although, can't seem to get the loops come back around correctly on the "1" beat. The Quantitizer feature escapes me, don't understand how, or if it works. Any help much appreciated.

Thanks.

[Phil W]

Don't know that model specifically but I know when I first started looping (Line 6 DL4) it took me about a month of practice to get the foot pedal timing chops right to create loops which started and ended exactly on the one.

[Thomas Wilburn]

Quantize requires you to either input a tap tempo or tell the machine how many measures your looping.

 

Phil is right, it just takes practice. It also took me about a month to reliably trigger the endpoints for loops, but now I don't even think about it.

[Bass-a-roni]

Oh okay, so you have to stop the recording at the right point in the "4" beat in order to come around to "1" Again. What a pain. That could throw your whole performance off if its not right on the money,

 

Thomas -I was hoping the box could do that for you with the quantize feature?

[Thomas Wilburn]

It will, but I'm not entirely clear on the details. Do you have the manual handy?

 

Don't think of it as punching out during the 4. What I try to do is start my loop right on 1, and hit the button again exactly on another 1, almost like I was triggering a kick drum. That gives you a complete measure or multiple measures.

 

It can be clumsy. That's why there's often a lot of demand for loopers that can do either timestretch quantize or understand MIDI clock. I actually like the simplicity of the manual approach, myself.

 

[Thomas Wilburn]

http://www.bosscorp.co.jp/products/en/_support/om.cfm?iCncd=537&ln=EN&SearchBy=RcId&dst=P&iRcId=0000000901&dsp=1&iStcd=4

 

Look on page 32.

 

Basically, it won't stop your loop for you, but it will adjust the timing of your stomp according to the tap tempo to stop it at the closest beat.

[Max Valentino]

It is all down to timing. And, yes, that can--and will--be tricky. The upside is that this kind of practice will increase your rhythmic accuity exponentially.

 

Here's something you can try: Play whatever phrase you intend to loop one whole time thru without punching into the looper. As you play, tap your foot and count. When you hit "1" punch in to start recording. Continue playing...and counting. When "1" comes back around (provided this is just a short loop...) punch out, but don't stop playing. Play "thru" the loop for a few seconds. This helps make the loop points a bit more "seamless" as there tends to be a few ms "delay" in the brain when you are stopping playing as you punch out.

 

Missing a punch is common. Glitches happen. when doing something "solo" this "error" can be a hidden "intention". I have found the challenge of working a mistake into a performance quite a good one. Yes, it changes the whole structure of piece if the last beat has a "bump" in it.....but the cool thing about looping is that it is not "static", like sequencing. Transitions and evolutions of pieces are part of the charm.

 

On my JamMan (an old Lexicon version with a modified OS allowing for a plethora of new functions which barely resemble the original version..) I have a function which allows me to "morph" looped material into new looped material. Handy for fixing those lil' timing errors. Often I will let a glitch run, making the most of it, and that in turn will lead me to a new direction as I morph the loop into something else.

I also use the "replace" function...not to try to "mend" the glitched past, but rather to add more glitchy-ness to the loop--kinda surrendering to the fact the loop is "imperfect" and relishing in that while adding new random "imperfections" to the loop. Often doing this creates a rather interesting rhythmic bed to which I can then overdub what was intended as the original harmonic content of the loop. Sort of using the mistake as something subconsciously intentional....and it makes what was originally a timing error seem like a brilliant and determined approach to the process!

 

Using loops in ensembles is especially tricky as human time wavers and the band will drift from the loop (and drummers will try time and time again to tell you the machine is drifting...). In such a case, you have to develop a good skill at hearing the drift, discerning when it is about to become lost, and then manually retrigger the loop on the next downbeat.

...or throw caution to the wind, let it drift and enjoy the mayhem.

 

Max

[Gruuve]

Hey man...with the quantize feature turned on, it'll automatically adjust your loop length. You have to start on count 1 and then end on count 1. You have to turn the click track volume up on the RC-20 so that you can hear the click, and adjust the tempo of the click to match what you're playing. THEN, that quantize will work pretty flawlessly (but it's still only as good as your own timing!).

 

Good luck with it,

Dave

 

[Phil W]

It's worth practising tapping the pedal on the one. After a month of disasters, I barely think about it now. There are occasionally very slight rhythmic glitches in the loop, if you're working with a drummer they have to be very aware and good at playing with loops. the guy we had at the London Lowdown jam, Brett was very cute at that.

 

At first I occasionally made a game out of it by playing some fairly random meter stuff like this

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=622746&songID=4629937

(Wal)

 

Now it's smoother but busy

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=622746&songID=4823676

(Voices After)

 

Occasionally it's simpler which is better

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=622746&songID=4823676

(Kim's idea)

 

All very lo-fi and you can hear the clicks when I stomp on the pedal. The whole process really develops your rhythm and musical awareness; but looping takes a long time to get good at, these are just my early experiments.

[Phil W]

Great post Max!

I've ended up using the manual retrigger thing often, sometimes just as an effect every bar or two - recording a short loop and then reintroducing it briefly at different intervals.

[Thomas Wilburn]

On loopers that support a one-shot or play-once mode, manual retrigger can be really helpful.

 

I've used it for songwriting several times. I've also used it to introduce variation to a loop: for Psycho Killer, for example, you can record a chord loop that goes all the way through the progression (A G F G A) and then retrigger after each (A G) during the verse, letting it play through to completion during the chorus. Complicated to do live, but fun (even if no-one realizes what you've done).

[Bass-a-roni]

Thanks Guys, this really helps.

 

Now if I could only play. :grin: