Canned licks, can they be converted into original licks"

[Dr. Ellwood]

Can guys who specialize in doing note for note canned licks originally done by famous players convert these licks into original licks in a jam situation? It's been my experience that they can, and with pretty darn good results. To me it is not a huge leap into uncharted waters when put in a jam situation, get the progression and use your modified canned licks and the results are many times unique. What has been your experience in this? And yes I'm talking about myself here but there are lots of other players who approach learning note for note covers in much the same way I do.

[otherstar]

I've had good luck with it. I look at it much like jazz (at least from a philosophical approach), take the melody and build on it, embellish it, and make it your own.

[Phillydor]

 

 

Some songs should NEVER be copied though - I still cringe every time I hear a cover band play I Feel Good by James Brown.

[miroslav]

To me it is not a huge leap into uncharted waters when put in a jam situation, get the progression and use your modified canned licks and the results are many times unique.

 

Yes...that's the wonderful thing about jams...you just let your fingers do the walking...it's not about trying to say something very specific in a defined space.

 

When moving over to doing original music...yes, you can still find a lot of inspiration in canned licks...but, you have to really rework them to fit the song at hand...AND...to not have it still sound like a copped lick.

You have to watch out that you don't just end up stringing a series of canned licks together...and/or just reshuffling them time and time again as you do different songs/jams...etc.

 

That said...with basic R&R/Blues music...there is always some piece of someone else's lick in there....though there are many ways to deliver the same notes.

 

I'll be honest...I can't recall really trying to accumulate a lot of canned licks into my repertoire.

The only time I ever learned someone's leads was when I was doing the cover band thing and where it was "required" that the songs sounded just like the original.

 

While I might have spent a lot of time listening to the original versions when doing covers...most times I would let the original licks subliminally affect my playing rather than always thinking, "Oh crap, Clapton always plays a G and then the D note."...etc...etc.

[Billster]

In reality, all "original" licks come from something previously learned. Keith Richards once said that his method of song writing was to sit down at a piano, play 7 or 8 of his favorite Chuck Berry or Everly Brothers or whatever, and hope one of his own drips off the end.

[miroslav]

Yes...true.

 

But I think there can also be a difference between playing "licks"...and playing a lead line that is very fitting melodically to that song.

 

"Licks" are often just that...learned sequences that will generally "fit" as long as you are in the right key and style of music.

But playing more developed lead lines that are meant JUST for that song, is no different than what a singer is doing.

You don't hear a singer singing pieces of some other melody line in a different song JUST because it can "fit" (not often, anyway).

 

For some songsIll do some licksbut for others I really try and step outside of that lick box and think more in terms of melody lines that are composed for the song.

Heyits not easy stepping away from your favorites little licks/runsand often they tend to creep into whatever you are playing! :grin:

 

[GovernorSilver]

Heck, John Mayer is making a whole career out of doing exactly this.

[Eric VB]

I'll +1 miro when he says you shouldn't just string a bunch of licks together. As he says, it often sounds better to improv a new melody/solo. When starting out, though, it's easier to just string together known licks. [Think of it as making up a kid's story by directly quoting existing stories versus making up something original on the spot.***]

 

How many licks come from the minor blues scale? (Heck, how many Zep riffs alone come from minor blues?) How can people get so much variety from only 6 notes?

 

Sure, there's the whole mathematical/combinatorial thing, but that gets pretty messy pretty quick. Besides, concentrating on the pitches makes you lose sight of the countless rhythmic variations.

 

Here's a fun 3-note lick (from the major pentatonic scale): 5 6 1 (octave), simple 8ths (not trips). I'm sure it shows up in all sorts of things. If you want you can play it 5 times in a row for a 7.5-beat phrase (top it off with an 8th note rest for a full 8 beats).

 

Now play it as 1 6 5 1 1 6 5 5 6 1 1. (Again the 1 is the octave.) Get the rhythm just right and you'll be "down on the corner, out in the street" just like CCR, for a totally different 8-beat phrase.

 

So, anyway, yeah, it's possible to modify a lick and come up with new stuff. You see above what can happen with just 3 notes from a age old, worn out 5-note scale.

 

 

***This can be a fun game, actually, to exchange lines from nursery rhymes with at least one other person.

 

Hickory, dickory dock

Humpty dumpty had a great fall

Eating her curds and whey

[Eric VB]

As Bill says, though, we all pick up licks and stylings from out "musical influences".

 

In a jam situation I wouldn't care if someone played leads that sounded just like famous leads, unless it was obvious that the person was playing an entire song note-for-note while everyone else was trying to find a different groove. That might not sound so good. But to mix things up and piece them together would probably be fine.

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Well, have I mentioned this thing before?

 

 

Look at what you can do by splicing two Stones' riffs together.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Good stuff here! I think the ability to string together riffs, licks, melodic lines depends on the experience of the player and their knowledge of how melodic lines are put together to serve the meaning and feeling of the piece. For instance, a good player can jam with anyone in any style they choose and sound convincing if not unique. A good player can use his background in doing lines from all kinds of recognizable lines if he has the ability to improvise within any context, all this can be done without one thing being attributed to any famous player. There are always style markers within anyones playing, we can identify influences in someones playing no matter how unique the line is seen to be. The reason we can so easily identify these style markers is because all musicians draw on their influences, take those things learned from their influences and their training and try to create something unique.

 

[Eric Iverson]

I would venture to say that at least 90% of music being made is a reworking of music that has come before.

 

There are a handful of people who have come up with a truly original style... and mostly they spend the rest of their lives refining it.. no disrespect intended... but guys like Pat Martino and Allan Holdsworth are basically following the same concept now for 30 years.

 

And there are some avant-gardists who do their best to come up with new things, regardless of sales figures and whatnot. God bless all of them, whether I like their music or not! I hope they can make a living at it, or at least find a good day job that allows them to live decently while they pursue their muse!

[TheRealShimSlady]

Forgive me for not taking the time to read all of the replies on this thread, but, in short, I'd have to say mos' def', Hell-yeah, and fersher: canned licks can be converted into original ideas; or, at least, reworked licks with the spin and stamp of the individual player freshly slapped on'em.

 

Most of guitar music, blues, jazz, rock, country, bluegrass, r&b, funk, etc. etc. etc. is based entirely on this process, wouldn't you say? Everybody starts somewhere, pretty much with music they like and then they make it there own if they've got some creativity and an "ear".

 

What's really cool is when you take licks and ideas that seem completely identifiable as part of a given style, and then use them creatively in another context with a few twists for something fresh.

 

Anyways, I'm fer it.