gangsu Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 I've received a replacement for a faulty volume pedal (thanks M-Audio!), and I have a question. Is the not-so-subtle stepping I hear a shortcoming of the pedal, or the keyboard? I expected perfection. thanks "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted May 14, 2007 Author Share Posted May 14, 2007 I'm not really smiling, I'm just drawn that way. "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP3 Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 It's likely the keyboard, if you are using the pedal as a controller pedal. If you are running the audio output of the keyboard thru the pedal, there should be no stepping (or zippering). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITGITC Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Hi Sue. Missed ya. Good to hear your voice. Don't know about your GEM. My pedal was giving me a bit of a problem when using it with B3 emulation, making it sound 'rough' or 'gritty'. However, when using to sweep a filter for 'wah' emulation, I didn't seem to have a problem. This may be a 'feature' of the GEM Promega. I don't know until we hear from other GEM users. Tom "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted May 14, 2007 Author Share Posted May 14, 2007 A feature! Yeah, I'm not using a GEM accessory therefore I shall pay the price. TinderArts, are you trying to trap me with your easy drawl? Am I running the audio output through the pedal? I guess so. Am I using it as a controller pedal? I guess so. I plugged it in and gave it a name. Zippering, now that rings a bell. Well colour me blue. Gas, thanks for the welcome back. I've been off the radar and missed you guys too. "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITGITC Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 gangsu, it's an either/or proposition. Either you're sending your audio output through the pedal before the audio gets to the amp & speakers... Or you're simply plugging the pedal into an available jack on your keyboard. This would make it a 'controller' pedal. I'm thinking the latter. And because it's digital, you're dealing with steps. To eliminate the zipper effect, smaller steps are needed. However, this is probably not under your control. It's in the programming of the keyboard. I could be mistaken, but that's my best guess. Tom "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted May 14, 2007 Author Share Posted May 14, 2007 Oh. I just plugged it into the keyboard; done. How can you be so sure it's not a case of the pedal failing to recognize the info, as opposed to the keyboard not sending it? "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finale Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Hi Sue and a late happy Mother's Day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrdman Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 What sort of pedal is this that it needs to "recognize" info. Expression pedals are usually a dumb variable resistor. Wouldn't recognize info if it were served to it with potato and peas. If it is a dumb expression pedal I would try recording the MIDI data that you get when you move it. It sounds like you are only getting 8 significant bits. This would prove there was something wrong in the board - could be a global config issue or perhaps the expression ADC is only 8 bits wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted May 14, 2007 Author Share Posted May 14, 2007 Thanks, Cy. Hang on Byrdman, I've good good ears (ask Busch). What I consider "not-so-subtle", the average man wouldn't notice. "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITGITC Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 What I consider "not-so-subtle", the average man wouldn't notice. I was going to say something... but I, ahem, completely forgot what it was. Yeah. That's it... I completely forgot what it was. :grin: "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted May 14, 2007 Author Share Posted May 14, 2007 I don't know how you can hear anything over that slurrping and chomping. Put that bag down and go to your room! "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GovernorSilver Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 I tried using an EXP pedal with my synth. I find I'd rather run the audio out through an audio volume pedal - much happier this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted May 14, 2007 Author Share Posted May 14, 2007 So, a pedal with both an input and output jack, that is compatible with my I say MY keyboard? It probably doesn't exist. Thanks for your note. Reassuring in a sad sort of way. "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GovernorSilver Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 So, a pedal with both an input and output jack, that is compatible with my I say MY keyboard? I don't understand this question. Could you elaborate or are you going "delirium" on me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Golly Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Hey Sue... belated Happy Mother's Day. To clear up the confusion, there are two types of pedals that are used with keyboards to control volume. The first type is a "controller" pedal. It basically behaves like (in this case) the volume slider on your keyboard. Imagine if you will that you could kick off your shoes and socks and use your foot to play with that slider... that's your controller pedal in action. http://www.sweetwater.com/images/items/EV5.jpg Roland EV-5 "Controller Pedal" The second type is an "inline" pedal. It behaves like the fader on your P.A. mixer; taking the audio outputs from your keyboard, running into the pedal, then out from the pedal into your amplifier/speakers. http://www.sweetwater.com/images/items/215/FV500L.jpg Boss FV-500L "Inline Volume Pedal" The former requires a check for compatibility; i.e. the Roland EV-5 controller pedal shown above is incompatible with any/all Yamaha and Korg keyboards. Various commonality exists, but not everyone's gear plays nice with everyone else's. I can elaborate if necessary, but it'll deal with simple electrical principals and a bit of math. The latter doesn't care what make of keyboard you're using, or even whether it's a keyboard or not. It basically takes any audio signal (within certain levels, but pretty much all keyboards will work equally) and attenuates it (basically varies how much of the signal is passing through to your speakers. Think of it like a tap on your sink. Open it fully, you have full volume; close it to just barely open, you have a "trickle" of sound. So, to answer your question, if a pedal doesn't have a cable permanently attached to it (like the EV-5 above), but rather has one (or two) sets of input/output jacks (like the FV-500L), then yes, it'll work just fine with your keyboard. Note for other forumites: I have deliberately not discussed the use of controller/expression pedals to control things other than volume, in an effort to keep the explanation clearer than mud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 The advantage of the EV-5 is that little minimum volume knob on the side (ranges from 0-10) it allows you to set a minimum volume level. I can't imagine using a volume pedal without that special feature. So, first you you set your keyboard at the max volume you want to play and then you set the pedal volume at the minimum volume you want to play. I set the pedal minimum at 5 for comping and use full pedal for soloing. Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 800 of Harry's solo piano arrangements and tutorials at https://www.patreon.com/HarryLikas These arrangements are for teaching solo piano chording using Harry's 2+2 harmony method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Golly Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 The advantage of the EV-5 is that little minimum volume knob on the side (ranges from 0-10) it allows you to set a minimum volume level. I can't imagine using a volume pedal without that special feature. So, first you you set your keyboard at the max volume you want to play and then you set the pedal volume at the minimum volume you want to play. I set the pedal minimum at 5 for comping and use full pedal for soloing. Which is great, if you're using a Roland keyboard. Which Sue is not. So... ummm... yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GovernorSilver Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 To elaborate, I use a Yamaha FC9 Stereo Volume Pedal. It does not care what keyboard or other instrument you plug into it - you plug in the AUDIO OUTPUTS (NOT MIDI OUTPUT) of your keyboard into its AUDIO input. It does exactly what I want a volume pedal to do - act like a volume knob you control with your foot. Other audio volume pedals I have tried impose a tapering kind of feel - the volume changes depends on how fast you move your foot down, which is not to my taste. The FC9 has a knob that lets you adjust the gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Which is great, if you're using a Roland keyboard. Which Sue is not. So... ummm... yeah. That feature works great with my Electro, allowing me to have a realistic bottom to my organ swells - after all, a Hammond's volume pedal doesn't go to 'zero'. A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeNZ Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Some keyboards do not recognise all MIDI CC values from 0-127. My N5ex (just sold last weekend) would only generate steps of roughly 4-5 MIDI values from any knob, wheel, or control pedal. This was built into the architecture. Chances are this is what is happening, and if so there is nothing you can do about it except to replace it with a keyboard that generates the full 0-127 range. Some keyboard also do not scan controls fast enough to generate all values from a fast movement, so you get like 7 values from a fast full range sweep. ZZZZZZZIP! To be sure MIDI up your keyboard to a PC with MIDI-OX or similar and move the pedal slowly to check the values. You can buy MIDI pedals that you can use to control volume or whatever, or MIDI Solutions makes a pedal MIDI interface that you should be able to plug the pedal into and get oh so smooth MIDI values out. Rather pricey options though. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Golly Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 That feature works great with my Electro, allowing me to have a realistic bottom to my organ swells - after all, a Hammond's volume pedal doesn't go to 'zero'. Nor is the pedal on a Hammond a "volume pedal"... it's an expression pedal with a non-linear, frequency-dependent attenuation. We're even farther off the mark in terms of helping Sue get the answers she needs, though... which was pretty much my point in my response to Jazz+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 The solution is she should be using a Roland keyboard. Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 800 of Harry's solo piano arrangements and tutorials at https://www.patreon.com/HarryLikas These arrangements are for teaching solo piano chording using Harry's 2+2 harmony method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 The solution is she should be using a Roland keyboard. :grin: A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKeys Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Sue, I wonder if you are getting more of the non gradual volume increase. I had that problem with my Roland EV5 (shown above. It would sometimes smoothly increase volume and other times there would be nothing and then more than I wanted. The pedal was less than 2 months old. I almost took it back but decided to spray some DeOxit (electronic cleaner) on it and it has worked great ever since. Spray that baby before you toss it out. Jimmy Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others. Groucho NEW BAND CHECK THEM OUT www.steveowensandsummertime.com www.jimmyweaver.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted May 15, 2007 Author Share Posted May 15, 2007 Note for other forumites: I have deliberately not discussed the use of controller/expression pedals to control things other than volume, in an effort to keep the explanation clearer than mud. Sven, you are appreciated! It's odd, now that I've complained that I heard a wee zipper effect, say from 0-30 (no amount of curiosity will drive me to dig into Midi-Ox) this one has stopped working reliably too. A disconnect occured when I adjusted the knob. Sometimes it comes back on by unplugging, trying a new jack, resetting the function, sometimes not. Maybe it's the same old pedal, dusted off and returned. Or maybe my keyboard has some issues. Whatever, I've lost enough time. Thanks for the tip, Jazz+ "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GovernorSilver Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 That's why I'd rather use an audio volume pedal to control volume - then I don't have to deal with MIDI anything just to control my volume! Just run the audio outs of your keyboard into the audio ins of the pedal, then the audio outs of the pedal into your mixer/amp/whatever. Sounds like "gangsu" is trying to control MIDI volume with an expression pedal, which is not the same. I tried that route before with synth. It's so much easier to just run the synth audio into an audio volume pedal. No MIDI, less headaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Tatum Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 I may regret asking this, but... Sue, what does the zippering sound like? Is it a crackling kind of sound? Or, is just that there are not enough distinct volume levels? If the latter, I can't imagine it sounding like zipper noise. I think that would be hard to hear, unless the number of distinct volume levels were quite small. Just trying to find out more specifically what it is you're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted May 15, 2007 Author Share Posted May 15, 2007 Floyd, you want me to describe the sound of a zipper? Without breaking into a sweat? :grin: "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Vegas Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 Zipper effect? Is this where the volume changes in steps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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