Overrated artists

[Leberwurst]

overrated:

 

all tenor saxophonists who put themselves in front of an audience and barf out the c blues scale (in the so-called "porn-sax-style") cannot avoid to be overrated by all means

[Jim Alfredson]

I think music is overrated.

[SilverDragonSoun]

I gotta get this off my chest, and sorry if it offends anybody.

 

My most overrated artist of all time:

 

Prince

 

I never understood the appeal. I remember acquaintances back in the 80s saying he was a "true visionary" and "true innovator". Huh? Lukewarm James Brown and Rick James ripoffs, where is the innovation?

 

 

I agree. What the hell was up with the whole look at the superbowl? Just another piece of the puzzle to prove it in my eyes. I wonder if I made a movie, wore skin tight pants to accentuate my private parts, had a hot girl musician co-star with me in the movie and did my own soundtrack if I can make it big? I'd better throw some overly feminine elements to wow the ladies as well and later I change my name to a symbol to bring myself back into the spotlight.

[NYKeys]

And The Most Over-rated Artist of all times is:

 

 

http://www.indieavenue.com/boydstuff/kennyg.jpg

 

 

[Dave Ferris]

My friend, bassist Jeff Berlin has a great Prince story that goes back a few years.

 

I can't rememer the particulars of why Jeff and members of Prince's band were hanging together, but they got into a discussion over the

great pianist/composer/arranger Clare Fisher.

 

Turns out Clare had contributed a string or horn arrangement to Prince's latest record and members of the band were saying how good they thought he was.........to these knuckleheads he was just some old guy, certainly not hip or achieving godlike status, they had never heard of. Jeff's explaining what a legend Clare is....."think D. Ellington, M. Ravel, I. Stravinsky rolled into one", he's saying. They are listening, nodding along when one of the band members says, "Yea, it sounds like he knows what he is doing, otherwise Prince would never have used him".

 

Jeff said....."well....uh....yea....but you don't understand.....no one walking around on planet earth has as much knowledge regarding functional harmony as this man, as an arranger and composer for almost 50 yrs., he's achieved legendary status in the music world, jazz, classical, choral, pop, you name it....Clare has done it ....he is truly a genius!! Prince is very good at what he does, but....."

Well....to them that's fightin' words, the G word was reserved for one man....you guessed it!! Jeff had gone and done it....he had dissed the Prince!!

At this point Jeff said he was not getting a very warm and fuzzy feeling. In fact he described the mood as turning somewhat hostile. He said maybe I better move on...I don't think we'll ever agree here. He could feel he'd lost all credibility w/ the band members.

 

He said he had the feeling they were looking at him as if he was the man who had started the AIDS virus !!!!

[Dave Ferris]

Oh yes....

 

Kenny G is to jazz as what Mr. T is to acting !!!!!!!

[kanker.]

My friend, bassist Jeff Berlin as a great Prince story.

All I can say to that story is wow.

[kanker.]

BTW, I feel the most unbelievably overrated artist I've ever encountered is Kevin Anker.

[Andre Lower]

Just in case nobody had realized it before, the community here is a point in case on how the same people, theoretically with a lot in common, can have so different opinions depending on the individual subject at hand.

 

As someone posted in some other thread...it's all for good, anyways.

 

[kad]

My friend, bassist Jeff Berlin has a great Prince story that goes back a few years.

 

It's nice to hear there are still a few people around who "get" Clare Fischer. I agree with Mr. Berlin - in the area of extended functional harmony, I really can't think of anyone who's genius surpasses Clare's. There doesn't seem to be a limit to the depth of his harmonic vocabulary. If an "Underrated Artist" thread is ever started, he is at the top of my list.

 

 

[wjwilcox]

I'll add Tori Amos to the list...maybe I'm just getting old (53 next month, so I guess I am!), but I don't understand her appeal. Meandering songs, unintelligable lyrics...what's the point?

+1 for Rush, as well. My, I'm cranky tonight....

[kanker.]

Phish

 

+1 for Tori Aimless too

[Nordude]

this supposed to be overrated list not personal preferences/taste list...

 

if somebody list Santana in overrated list thats just silly...

 

Overrating indeed is not exactly the same as having a high personal preference (although there is a relationship between the two).

 

Regarding Santana:

I never understood why my guitarist friends think he is one of the best guitar players in the world. I like his idea of mingling different styles (latin, rock,...), but his playing and melodic approach are not very special IMO. Or can someone recommend an album which shows the contrary. I'm open to it...

 

Regarding the Stones:

Sure, they've played for a long time, and sure, they are a rock 'n' roll phenomenon, and sure, they have some interesting songs, but musically, are they really that greatest rock 'n; roll band in the world? Did they have revolutionary influences? And if so, then also in the 70s/80s/90s?

Of course people can like 'em (and true: I never got their appeal), but as stated: liking a band and rating a band (underrating/overrating/justly rating) are two different (though potentially related) things.

 

[Phil W]

Regarding Santana:

I never understood why my guitarist friends think he is one of the best guitar players in the world. I like his idea of mingling different styles (latin, rock,...), but his playing and melodic approach are not very special IMO. Or can someone recommend an album which shows the contrary. I'm open to it...

 

Well, I think he can be seen as either over- or underrated as people generally rate him or don't. There are issues in that he tends to reuse the same melodic ideas and licks over and over in his improvisations. However, this is true of the vast majority of musicians to a lesser extent (e.g Bird, Jaco and others had their signature licks, not to say that Carols is an improvisor anywhere near Bird's level ).

 

At the time when Santana came out there was a true open-mindedness about music. I have a recording of a live concert and the crowd roars approval and recognition when the play the opening of Miles Davis' 'In a Silent Way'. Imagine that happening at a major rock show today!? Carlos was genuinely open to jazz, blues, latin and african music - able to take what he wanted (or find the guys like Tom Coster who could provide it for him) and make something catchy with it.

 

Unfortunately, from the 80s on, he has been keen for record company success and released a lot of very poor music. However, according to Miles Davis, Wayne Shorter and Joe Zawinul (who've all been quoted on this), Carlos Santana has a beautiful way of phrasing and playing a melody. It's intersting that he started as a Mariachi violinist as I hear a lot of that in his playing. McCoy Tyner used him way back, John McLaughlin played with him, Alice Coltrane collaborated with him -he has something.

 

Additionally, he's one of those musicians (like Miles, BB King etc) who even a small child can recognise from a few notes - that is something valuable!

 

Recommended recordings:

 

Welcome (with Richard Kermode and Tom Coster) - a beautiful record

The Live at Montreux CD/DVD with Wayne Shorter (Patrice Rushen blows all away)

Borboletta

Caravanserai

Abraxas

Lotus

 

Absolutely recommended is the collaboration with Alice Coltrane - Illuminations and Swing of Delight with Hancock, Shorter, Carter and Williams.

If you're a guitar fusion guy then try 'Love Devotion and Surrender' with John McLaughlin.

 

 

 

[DanS]

Fleetwood Mac

 

I agree with some of the others.

I'd like to think that most of these bands aren't kidding themselves by believing their own hype, but who knows?

 

I like Norah Jones, for her simplicity and nice little songs.

She's boring as hell live, but she's the real deal.

[Mark Zeger]

#1 all time overrated: The Grateful Dead. Yes, I've seen them live (Sept'80). They were nothing more than a very good bar band, deified into a cult. I can hear far more musical talent in Phish though I don't care for their music. It's not an anti-jam band bias. I'm OK with Dave Matthews.

 

Personally, I put Tori Amos in the same category as Bjork.

 

I just don't get them.

 

I recognize that there is something there. I just don't get them. I don't think I'm ever going to warm up to Tori but I'm willing to try with Bjork if I were willing to risk $$ on a few of her CDs.

 

+1 for Clapton as a solo artist. Cream kicked much ass. Clapton in the '70s-80s? Not so much.

 

[Ed Coury]

My friend, bassist Jeff Berlin as a great Prince story.

All I can say to that story is wow.

 

Interesting, but a better Prince story is HERE

[Mr. Nightime]

Every time I see Tori Amos, I just want to hand her a hair brush or something. I can't listen to her music. I don't particularly care for Alicia Keys. Sure, she sings well, and plays well, but to my ears, all her songs sound alike.

 

Hootie and the Blowfish, I wish Darius Rucker would expand his vocal range past the 5th that he always sings in. Boring!

 

I got so sick of Fleetwood Mac. The songs were mediocre, and Stevie Nicks always sounded like she'd taken a handful of Quaaludes before she sang.

 

 

[Legatoboy]

Dave,

 

Jeff said....."well....uh....yea....but you don't understand.....no one walking around on planet earth has as much knowledge regarding functional harmony as this man, as an arranger and composer for almost 50 yrs., he's achieved legendary status in the music world, jazz, classical, choral, pop, you name it....Clare has done it ....he is truly a genius!! Prince is very good at what he does, but....."

Well....to them that's fightin' words, the G word was reserved for one man....you guessed it!! Jeff had gone and done it....he had dissed the Prince!!

 

That reminds me of the scene in 'Little Miss Sunshine' at the dinner table where the father asks "and who is the 1st leading Proust scholar in the US?" and he says "Ah! that might be me".

 

That Prince story is an example of Postmodernism in action in all it's dysfunctional glory!

 

I have a friend, a bass player I used to play with that studied with Jeff when he lived in LA. Chris XXX, I can't quite pull out his last name, you may in fact know him. He lives in Humboldt county now with his wife. You may have known him when he was in LA 10 years or so ago, well maybe, he would fit in your scene I think! Click on the first Bobby Radciffe picture halfway down, that's Chris on Bass!

 

Not to hijack this thread!

 

lb

[Ed Coury]

I got so sick of Fleetwood Mac. The songs were mediocre, and Stevie Nicks always sounded like she'd taken a handful of Quaaludes before she sang.

 

 

Ah...but in the context of pop/rock, I find Rumors to be a pretty decent effort -- if not one of the best recordings of that genre (rock/pop crossover) to emerge from the late 70's

[Legatoboy]

Alot of 'guys', many times guitar players, say Clapton is overrated. I just think he's alittle sleepy and lazy in that genre sometimes. I feel he is a talented guy but he's not a Larry Carlton type of musician! Also, I think the English and European players with Jazz and Blues and American forms have another layer they may have to work through.... it's different for them I think! Even someone like George Shearing and Marion McPartland! From a purely closer to the 'source' stand point culturally. . .! This may be a politically incorrect stance but, hey!

 

The first musician that comes to mind as being overrated is myself in regards to some of my local mantle. Boy can I suc# sometimes. I do have my moments though....

 

Anybody else feel that way! Just kidding, I think we all That terrain!

 

But really, I think Monk "might" have been alittle overrated, I was just listening to the Monk/Coltrane CD yesterday! Coming from the 'Bud' side of the room with my studies and having that idea proposed to me, after a long time now, I think that might be true purely from a 'players' standpoint. His composition stands up pretty well I think though!

 

Miles was also mentioned to me in a similar fashion. . . .

 

The pure boppers have their paradigm, at least in NYC I think with my limited exposure to that mind set!

 

I don't just accept those ideas when proposed, sometimes it takes me years to come to a kernal of a conclusion!

 

lb

[ProfD]

But really, I think Monk "might" have been alittle overrated, I was just listening to the Monk/Coltrane CD yesterday! Coming from the 'Bud' side of the room with my studies and having that idea proposed to me, after a long time now, I think that might be true purely from a 'players' standpoint. His composition stands up pretty well I think though!

 

The pure boppers have their paradigm, at least in NYC I think with my limited exposure to that mind set!

 

lb

 

I started to address the first half until the last sentence made it clear.

 

For cats who like to run up and down the keys, Monk would be an acquired taste. But, for those who think harmonically first and then melodically, Monk is a genius.

 

Anyway, it is not my intent to derail the thread nor defend Monk. Back to the original program.

 

 

[Garrafon]

As for this whole thread....what else can I say, but

[Finale]

I wonder if I'm overrated or underrated.

[ProfD]

I wonder if I'm overrated or underrated.

 

I have heard your playing, it is fantastic and a d*mn shame that like many others around here, unknown. But, at KC we luv ya man!

 

I'll take NR (No Rating) for $1k Alex. I hate labels and boxes but I'm not claustrophobic. Just play and dig.

 

 

[linwood]

I'm overworked and underpaid.

[Phil Aiken]

My list would be a long one, but off the top of my head:

Yes

Rush

ELP

Dream Theater

Dave Matthews

Phish

Stevie Ray Vaughn

Smashing Pumpkins

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Legatoboy]

Linwood,

 

I thought you were gonna say "I'm Overworked and UnderRated"!

 

I guess being Underpaid alot of times would go with the above two but not necessarily!

lb

 

 

[ProfD]

Linwood,

 

I thought you were gonna say "I'm Overworked and UnderRated"!

 

I guess being Underpaid alot of times would go with the above two but not necessarily!

lb

 

 

LB, don't fall for that. I think Linwood either lives right next door to Wayne Newton or Newton lives is Wood's gazebo.

[linwood]

I'm overfed and an underachiever.