oscarr111111 Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 I'm looking for a moderately cheap used or new sound module that can give me a wide range of usable sounds. Price of no more than £100-£200 (tops). Can anyone recommend any models to check out? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meccajay Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 other than getting a nanosynth, I can't think of anything that cheap worth your time. My suggestion, go on ebay and find a Proteus 2000 for like $250 used and don't look back. TROLL . . . ish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeNZ Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 You could look at the Kurzweil ME1 or Roland XV2020. You might find one on Ebay within your budget. Some older modules like the Roland JV-1010, Korg 05R/W or N1R should be within that budget with comparable or better sound quality. The 1010 and 05R/W are half rack size boxes, the N1R is full width. The Nano-synth has some peculiar features in its' synth architecture that are difficult to find in other modules. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 The Nano-synth has some peculiar features in its' synth architecture that are difficult to find in other modules. Can you be more specific? If memory serves, the nanosynth is basically just a QS6 with GM style programs. I believe it has the same exact architecture as all the QS series... dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Professional Affiliations: Royer Labs • Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meccajay Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 All those are fine modules, absolutely, but what's his budget work out to in American dollars(£200)?? TROLL . . . ish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarr111111 Posted May 8, 2007 Author Share Posted May 8, 2007 200.00 GBP = 397.801 USD Gear is usually more expensive in Britain though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeNZ Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 I'm no synth expert and not a sound programmer, so I suggest you find out more for yourself. I am a tech kind of guy so pick up and understand this kind of stuff easily. I'll explain what I think I know. The Nano-synth (and some other Alesis synths) have Matrix Modulation capabilites that (if I have got it right) let you send one control source (e.g aftertouch, velocity, MIDI CC) to up to 4 parameters simultaneously, and these can be almost ANY synth patch parameter. So for example you could use aftertouch to control volume, LFO depth and rate, and filter all at once. Most ROMPLER architectures only let you control one parameter per CC, and maybe a limited set that is pre-defined in the architecture for something like aftertouch or velocity. On the Nano you can also sound morph from one patch to another, smoothly changing other parameters simulationg. This morphing on a held note, not velocity switching or simple volume layering. These capabilites can enable you to do things with the Nano-synth that are impossible with other synths, even though the Nano is like 10+ years old and only has a few MB of RAM. Patchman Music does some really good breath control sounds for the Nano - check out their demos to give you some idea of what can be done. Most of these sounds use at most breath control, pitch bend, and modulation from the player. I think some of the Roland JV and XV synths can also do something similar. If these types of capabilities are important to you then the Korgs I mentioned can't do it. The older and cheaper Korgs (which I am very familiar with, but know little about the Triton or Oasis) let you control a few things simultanesouly with velocity and aftertouch and sometimes pitch bend, but any other CC can only control one synth parameter. Anyway, I'm no expert, and haven't used the Nano or Rolands, so may have got it wrong. So if you want to learn more, ask someone else or read the manuals. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeNZ Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Gear is usually more expensive in the UK. The Kurzweil ME1 sells for $US400 from Music123.com. Add freight, maybe VAT and a new power adapater and you are probaby out $US500. They do come up on Ebay used occasionally, and the used price should be within the budget. The XV-2020 is far more common on Ebay. Not sure what current prices are like, but it might be possible within the budget. Just check if the unit has an AC or DC adaptor. DC adaptors are cheap, AC ones are not (I made AC adaptor for my PC1X, a new one would have been $US90!). 110V Step down transformers are fairly cheap, but you end up with a mess of transformers and wires. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarr111111 Posted May 8, 2007 Author Share Posted May 8, 2007 I'll be controlling it from a Digital Piano with no aftertouch and no pitchbend, so its really just the quality and quantity of sounds that concerns me. Also, I don't want something that needs to be connected to a computer to use its full functionality (or at least as little conection to a computer needed as possible). Thanks for the help so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeNZ Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 All of these units can be programmed and controlled without a computer, although it is usually easier to program sounds using a computer. The Kurzweil ME1 did not save user changes on power down, at least in the early versions (see the Soundonsound.com review). I don't know if they fixed this in production models. If it doesn't save your changes then it is probably no use to you, unless you just wanted to play factory presets. The ME1 does have many of the capabilities of the PC2, if you can figure out how to access them. The XV-2020 is a really good module, with sounds up to the quality of the most recent Roland synths. It should work great for you. The JV-1010 is the previous version, with less RAM and samples, but still very good. Both can take an expansion card. If you want extra control then Behringer makes a cheap MIDI box with 4 assignable knobs and buttons, or simply getting a cheap MIDI controller can give you pitch, mod, buttons, and knobs. If you want to play synth, organ, wind, or string sounds then a few extra controls can make a big difference. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 I'm no synth expert and not a sound programmer, so I suggest you find out more for yourself. I am a tech kind of guy so pick up and understand this kind of stuff easily. I'll explain what I think I know. Fair enough... The Nano-synth (and some other Alesis synths) have Matrix Modulation capabilites that (if I have got it right) let you send one control source (e.g aftertouch, velocity, MIDI CC) to up to 4 parameters simultaneously, and these can be almost ANY synth patch parameter. It is true that Alesis QS synths (actually, all Alesis synths that I can think of) have a programmable mod matrix. If memory serves, each program can have up to six programmable mod source/destination combinations in addition to it's dedicated mod routings. I don't seem to remember MIDI CCs being in the list, though... So for example you could use aftertouch to control volume, LFO depth and rate, and filter all at once. I believe that's correct. Most ROMPLER architectures only let you control one parameter per CC, and maybe a limited set that is pre-defined in the architecture for something like aftertouch or velocity. I don't know about most, but I know there are some that do and some that don't and lots of varying degrees in between. On the Nano you can also sound morph from one patch to another, smoothly changing other parameters simulationg. This morphing on a held note, not velocity switching or simple volume layering. I do not believe that's correct. You can do crossfading between layers in program mode, but pretty much any ROMpler will do that. I do not recall there being any way to morph between programs... These capabilites can enable you to do things with the Nano-synth that are impossible with other synths, even though the Nano is like 10+ years old and only has a few MB of RAM. As I previously mentioned, the Nanosynth has the exact same architecture as every Alesis ROMpler, which I believe was lifted directly from the old Sound Designer software program (both architectures were designed by the same company). It's actually not all that unique. There are several other synths including (but not limited to) the Dave Smith Instruments Evolver synths, and the Kurzweil VAST synths also allow you to do a bunch of modular-type patching. If you really wanna play with deep synth architecture that nothing else comes near, you should try digging into one of those bad boys. I think some of the Roland JV and XV synths can also do something similar. I can't speak to that - never owned one of those... Anyway, I'm no expert, and haven't used the Nano or Rolands, so may have got it wrong. I've used the Nano, but haven't spent a ton of time with the Rolands. So if you want to learn more, ask someone else or read the manuals.I probably have an Alesis manual around here someplace - I'll see if I can dig it up. dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Professional Affiliations: Royer Labs • Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarr111111 Posted May 9, 2007 Author Share Posted May 9, 2007 If you want extra control then Behringer makes a cheap MIDI box with 4 assignable knobs and buttons, or simply getting a cheap MIDI controller can give you pitch, mod, buttons, and knobs. If you want to play synth, organ, wind, or string sounds then a few extra controls can make a big difference. So if I bought an additional midi controller I could wire it up somehow and use pitchbend and the like on notes from my Digital Piano? Also, do you know the name of that Behringer MIDI box model or anything? I looked on their site for something fitting your description but couldn't find anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusker Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 I'll be controlling it from a Digital Piano with no aftertouch and no pitchbend, so its really just the quality and quantity of sounds that concerns me. If the quality of sounds concerns you, then I suggest you raise your budget to a level commensurate with your investments in other instruments. You will get what you pay for. Best, Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarr111111 Posted May 9, 2007 Author Share Posted May 9, 2007 I really just want something thats 'good enough' with a wide range, so I can experiment and 'find my sound'. I'll specialize with more expensive gear later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeNZ Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 I apologise for any errors in my post about the Alesis. I got it broadly correct, I think. The Matrix capabilites are not unique, but not many synths can, but getting them in a $150 module (or even the $500 new QS6.2) is a steal compared to a Kurzweil synth or Dave Smith board. Low and mid range Korgs cant do it (not sure about the Triton, but doubt that it can), similarly with Yamaha synths I believe, and possibly only some high end Roland synths can do it. Not sure about the morphing Patchman features it on some sounds. Some synths can do a volume cross fade, but that is not exactly exciting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfD Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 I really just want something thats 'good enough' with a wide range, so I can experiment and 'find my sound'. Good luck. There is a phenomenon around here which is tied directly to that thought. It is called GAS. PD "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeNZ Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 The Behringer Nano BCN44: http://www.behringer.com/BCN44/index.cfm?lang=ENG About $65 new. I think it can be battery powered, and it is tiny so should easily sit on your piano (secure it with velcro dots). Otherwise, any MIDI controller keyboard will do the job. Try to get a battery powered one as that saves a lot of hassle with power supplies. You just need to connect it to your piano or module by a MIDI cable, then program the controls to match the MIDI parameters you want to control. You could even connect an expression pedal to the controller (if it has an input) and use that. You can also play notes on it, if you prefer synth action for some sounds, or have the notes play on a different MIDI channel to enable more splitting possibilities. The Roland JV-1010 or XV-2020 would easily do the job. The XV-2020 is so good it would probably be a very long time before you wanted anything else, unless you got deeply into synths or organs. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarr111111 Posted May 9, 2007 Author Share Posted May 9, 2007 I really just want something thats 'good enough' with a wide range, so I can experiment and 'find my sound'. Good luck. There is a phenomenon around here which is tied directly to that thought. It is called GAS. Heh, I never really had many problems with that. I don't tend to buy much equipment and of the instruments I play only two really cost much. I've been pretty lucky really, heres what I play most: Yamaha TRB1005 Bass: about £500 Peavey TNT115 amp: about £500 OOOOLD Fretless P-Bass (probally the best sounding piece of kit I have): £80 One of the older Yamaha Clavinova models: £100 Some family model Hammond Organ: found it at the tip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarr111111 Posted May 9, 2007 Author Share Posted May 9, 2007 The Behringer Nano BCN44: http://www.behringer.com/BCN44/index.cfm?lang=ENG About $65 new. I think it can be battery powered, and it is tiny so should easily sit on your piano (secure it with velcro dots). Otherwise, any MIDI controller keyboard will do the job. Try to get a battery powered one as that saves a lot of hassle with power supplies. You just need to connect it to your piano or module by a MIDI cable, then program the controls to match the MIDI parameters you want to control. You could even connect an expression pedal to the controller (if it has an input) and use that. You can also play notes on it, if you prefer synth action for some sounds, or have the notes play on a different MIDI channel to enable more splitting possibilities. The Roland JV-1010 or XV-2020 would easily do the job. The XV-2020 is so good it would probably be a very long time before you wanted anything else, unless you got deeply into synths or organs. Michael Do these modules have more than one MIDI in then? or are they connected through each other? Sorry for my ineptitude in this field, not really worked much setting stuff like that up before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 The Matrix capabilites are not unique, but not many synths can, but getting them in a $150 module (or even the $500 new QS6.2) is a steal compared to a Kurzweil synth or Dave Smith board. Nah...you can get a used K2000 keyboard or module for way cheap. Still the most flexible and versatile synth engine on the market, IMO...and it has resonant filters, which the NS does not...the NS doesn't even have the ability to do editing or saving from the front panel, nor does it really provide any sort of visual feedback. The Nanosynth really is basically only a repurposed QS6, intended mainly to be used for General MIDI purposes. Trust me on this one... Not sure about the morphing Patchman features it on some sounds. I'd be very surprised to learn that was the case - I'm fairly certain the QS synths don't have that capability. dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Professional Affiliations: Royer Labs • Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusker Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 I really just want something thats 'good enough' with a wide range, so I can experiment and 'find my sound'. I'll specialize with more expensive gear later. That makes sense. I'd still suggest bumping it up a bit. The Nanosynth is really just a GM module. You will tire of it quickly. The Roland JV/XV's that people have mentioned... The protei, the K series... All of these are serious synths, and have a chance of winning your affections in my view. Also because the sound in these machines, is more tweakable, you are more likely to tweak/find your sound with them, than with a preset synth. Finally consider, that these other synths people have mentioned (with the exception of the proteus and the NS) have bigger brothers in the family. So upgrading at a later date, will not be difficult. The fact is though (as Mike mentioned) if you get and XV2020 or something like it, you will be happy for a long long time. Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarr111111 Posted May 9, 2007 Author Share Posted May 9, 2007 Ok, I think the road I'm going to go down is a Roland XV-2020 or JV-1010 and an Axiom 25 for extra controls. Can anyone tell me the differences between the XV-2020 and JV-1010 modules? They seem very similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeNZ Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 The XV-2020 is simply a more recent version of the JV-1010. It has more ROM, more and better quality multisamples, and a few more effects. They are basically the same in architecture, and both are cut down versions of Rolands top end synth modules. You lose things like full rack size, extra outputs and inputs, fewer buttons etc, fewer expansion slots but the sound quality and capability are basically the same. The XV-2020 is better overall than the JV-1010, but they are close cousins. There are reviews of both units in www.soundonsound.com where you can find out a lot more, and if you want to know even more you can download the manuals. The JV-1010 should be within your budget. The XV-2020 might be if you are patient and a bit lucky. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus64 Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 I have a nanosynth and a JV1010. The 1010 IMO is like a Ferrari compared to a Yugo. No contest for my use, the 1010 is a LOT better soundwise. I dont use my Nanosynth any more. Its not horrible by any means and I paid $175 in 2000 ( US dollars). I would say its worth $50 or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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